A bad deal with Ryu or a bad deal with Donaldson would certainly make the haters forget about the Mauer deal.
Since everybody wants to hand out Christmas contracts lets sign Buxton for $100 million for 4 years and the fat kid for $180 for 6 years.
Just because you can get the money doesn’t mean it needs to be wasted.
I don’t see an ERA champ being a waste of money when your starting staff has no one with an ERA of less than 3.50, and that was a career year for Odo too.
Difference is Odo was a Twin and a resign. The Twins know what they were getting. Ryu is a stretch because of injuries and not taking the ball every 5th day. Why would the Dodgers not play on him? They have Kershaw and Buehler. Everything else is either not signed (Hill) Or unproven.
As I said 20 mil on a one year with options is one thing, 4 years @ $20 million is something completely different.
Well when this window closes with 0 playoff wins because we didn’t get any pitching yet again, I’ll be here saying I told you so.
This regime should have kept their mouths shut instead of saying how aggressive they were going to be on the pitching market this offseason. Up to this point in the offseason they deserve a D.
Why isn’t anybody upset the White Sux got Keuchel? 3 years at $55 mil is easier to swallow even with the options. Does everybody view Ryu as being a better pitcher?
Not to mention what’s the point of saving money one year if you don’t spend it the next few years?
Why isn’t anybody upset the White Sux got Keuchel? 3 years at $55 mil is easier to swallow even with the options. Does everybody view Ryu as being a better pitcher?
People are upset about it. Just hasn’t been brought up here. Go on Twitter or any Twins blog. People are pissed because they haven’t done a damn thing. They claim to make “competitive offers” on the bigger names with no success, then when the smaller cheaper options are available they aren’t good enough for the Twins…..
Can’t wait to see the next batch of Scott Bakers, Kyle Gibsons, Nick Blackburns, and Kevin Sloweys come up from the minors……
Rank the following reasons why the Twins didn’t sign a front line starting pitcher FA this season:
A) Ownership wouldn’t shell out enough money to be competitive
B) FA pitchers don’t want to come here because they don’t think the team/coaching staff is good enough to win in the playoffs
C) FA pitchers don’t want to come here because of the city/weather
D) Other
There is a chance (likely in fact) management thinks the Twins can bludgeon their way to the title again this year. If they get a third baseman to move the fat kid to first that should be the absolute conclusion we draw.
This upcoming season will be interesting to see if they continue to hit as they did last year. If they continue to pitch as they did last year. If they dominate Detroit, Chicago, KC as they did last year. Thats a awe-full lot of stars to line-up again.
We just might be ripping them come August for their failures in December.
Rank the following reasons why the Twins didn’t sign a front line starting pitcher FA this season:
A) Ownership wouldn’t shell out enough money to be competitive
B) FA pitchers don’t want to come here because they don’t think the team/coaching staff is good enough to win in the playoffs
C) FA pitchers don’t want to come here because of the city/weather
D) Other
1. B
2. A
3. C
However the answer B ties into A because it’s not necessarily that they don’t think they can win, it’s that down the road they don’t think the team will spend money to get more pitching help to win said playoff games, which is currently holding completely true as we sit here. One good pitcher and a bunch of scrubs puts a lot of pressure on that one good pitcher.
Rank the following reasons why the Twins didn’t sign a front line starting pitcher FA this season:
A) Ownership wouldn’t shell out enough money to be competitive
B) FA pitchers don’t want to come here because they don’t think the team/coaching staff is good enough to win in the playoffs
C) FA pitchers don’t want to come here because of the city/weather
D) Other
I think it’s a combination. I don’t think the FA studs wanna come here, nor do I think the Pohlads want to over pay them to come here.
I think it’s easier to get a rental pitcher in July because they know they can get out of here if they don’t like it.
I think the studs would come but the Twinks would need to have the highest per year contract on the table PLUS a opt out after 2 or 3 years. No way Cole was coming to Minneapolis for 9 years no matter what the money was.
Ok so I just wanna say that I did express concern over CWS signing Keuchel and I’ve been I think the only one saying (for a long time) that the Sox were way ahead of schedule and getting aggressive early in their window 
This offseason has me frustrated so far but it’s far from over. Take a breath, a sip of egg nog, and relax. Let’s see how this roster looks in 2 months.
Pete, how long have you lived here? For being from VA (I think?) you seem to be a legit MN sports fan. Properly pessimistic 
You truly belong here! 
Ok so I just wanna say that I did express concern over CWS signing Keuchel and I’ve been I think the only one saying (for a long time) that the Sox were way ahead of schedule and getting aggressive early in their window
This offseason has me frustrated so far but it’s far from over. Take a breath, a sip of egg nog, and relax. Let’s see how this roster looks in 2 months.
Pete, how long have you lived here? For being from VA (I think?) you seem to be a legit MN sports fan. Properly pessimistic
You truly belong here!
Long enough. However being a sports fan from the DC area also trains you to be properly pessimistic. Especially since the Nationals weren’t around when I was there so I was an Orioles fan……
Ok so I just wanna say that I did express concern over CWS signing Keuchel and I’ve been I think the only one saying (for a long time) that the Sox were way ahead of schedule and getting aggressive early in their window
This offseason has me frustrated so far but it’s far from over. Take a breath, a sip of egg nog, and relax. Let’s see how this roster looks in 2 months.
Ditto. I thought (or wanted to think) that the Twins had a legit chance at Keuchel. I’m also thought Gio Gonzales would have been a decent guy to take a chance on for not much money, and he too signed with the White Sux.
Missing out on Ryu doesn’t bother me much, for basically the same reasons and Dutch as pointed out. The fact that he went to Toronto is a bit weird.
I really don’t know what the Twins will do now that there isn’t much out there on the FA market. Any chance they actually trade for someone?
Cron & Schoop sign with Detroit.
Yeah, I know…I’m late to the party. 
But that right there is 48 HR’s combined between the two the Twins need to backfill if they hope to replicate last year.
Which we know they won’t since they sacrificed that for the big FA pitching acquisitions. 
I wouldn’t be surprised if Detroit with their young, hungry lineup and the new “power” hitting that they leapfrog the Twins next year.
Wouldn’t be surprised if CWS were in the mix either.
Last year for the Twins may have been the best we’ll have seen for a while.
Minnesota sports… 
I’ll go with the main reason strong starting pitching FA’s don’t come here is our weather. We have the coldest average temps in MLB and #3 in terms of precip. That kind of weather is less of a factor for position players and power hitters, but the splits for pitchers in cold weather are statistically a negative.
Top line pitchers don’t want to take a step back statistically on anything – same reason no one wants to pitch in the high elevation in Colorado.
Johnson, Greinke and now Bumgarner all went to Arizona, I believe the altitude is higher there then Coors.
But I agree, weather factors into Minnesota. But, they didn’t want to come to the dome either.
Andy, the only team Detroit will be able to leap frog is the Royals. Yes they are young, but they are not hungry. You could see that last year. Not to mention they only have one quality starter in Boyd, who might get traded before the season starts. And while that’s still one more quality arm than the Twins have on their rotation, Detroit isn’t going anywhere other than a few more wins that Cron and Schoop will offer them.
Falvene/Pohlads and their supporters come up with every excuse in the book.
Give me a damn break. As enjoyable as paying an injury riddled 33 year old $20 mil for the next 4 years would be, I’m glad the Twins decided to pass. With the Pohlads tight pocket, Falvine only have 1 opportunity to land a BIG name pitcher and pay them that kind of money.. and now we are upset its not Ryu? Really?! Cmon now. Same story for Bumgarner. Don’t think its Keuchel that pushes them over the top either. Sure, any of them would have been an improvement over Smeltzer, Thorpe, and maybe Pineda for the next few years.. but is it worth using the Twins’ 1 big money acquisition on any of these aging pitchers? To me, its not. Signing any of them to a 1 or 2 year deal was very likely never an option, so forget that. I’ll take the chance at something else coming via trade this offseason… or even at the deadline if it means something EVENTUALLY happens.
I’m sure everyone up in arms now is the same crew that was ready to take a pitchfork to target field when the Falvey/Levine opted against signing Craig Kimbrel long term. Remember that one? Cant blindly throw money places hoping it sticks when the Twins have the talent they do on a limited payroll.
Cant blindly throw money places hoping it sticks when the Twins have the talent they do on a limited payroll.
There is no salary cap
Last year was a nearly perfect season for Twins ownership.
1.Their payroll was low, and they were competitive bashing the ball with no high risk contracts
2. The division was garbage.
100 wins for cheap is just as valuable to them as 100 wins and a few playoff wins before getting ousted…as those next few playoff wins are going to cost big $$$.
Twins faithful forget that the team is a business first, and foremost in the eyes of those with the checkbook. They don’t give a $&/! what guys on an outdoor forum think as fans coming out of Winter meetings
That’s why its so sad to see adults keep making excuses for the greedy ownership. Like do they honestly not notice they keep getting this hamster wheel of excuses? Either they “just miss” on the free agents and claim they’ll totally get them next time or they push it back saying they’ll be active in trading once the team proves it can compete. Yet nothing ever happens and still you have these people desperately trying to rationalize why its not a big deal that once again the team took the cheap route.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>
Cant blindly throw money places hoping it sticks when the Twins have the talent they do on a limited payroll.There is no salary cap
Lol, you must be new here. I’m well aware the mlb has no “salary cap” but when your owners are the Pohlads you have a payroll that is… limited… like I said.
And again, I dont think anyone here is defending the Pohlads. I’m defending Falvey/Levine because I’ve followed this team enough to realize that the ownerships payroll wont change much, whether the Twins win 50 or 110 games. I certainly WISH the Twins could blindly throw hundreds of millions at aging, injured pitchers if all they had to do was throw more money at other guys to cover up their previous mistakes. Because we follow the Twins, and not the Yankees, Dodgers, or Red Sox, I see that the Twins have to make nearly perfect moves several offseasons in a row in order to compete for a WS title down the road. Falvey and Levine have done an excellent job at setting the Twins up for success in the upcoming years. Making a 33, 34, 35, and 36 year old pitcher your highest paid player, and only BIG move they’ll likely get (thanks to the Pohlads) isnt exactly ideal and probably wouldnt work out for the best. Thats all I’m saying.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Justin riegel wrote:</div>
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>
Cant blindly throw money places hoping it sticks when the Twins have the talent they do on a limited payroll.There is no salary cap
Lol, you must be new here. I’m well aware the mlb has no “salary cap” but when your owners are the Pohlads you have a payroll that is… limited… like I said.
And again, I dont think anyone here is defending the Pohlads. I’m defending Falvey/Levine because I’ve followed this team enough to realize that the ownerships payroll wont change much, whether the Twins win 50 or 110 games. I certainly WISH the Twins could blindly throw hundreds of millions at aging, injured pitchers if all they had to do was throw more money at other guys to cover up their previous mistakes. Because we follow the Twins, and not the Yankees, Dodgers, or Red Sox, I see that the Twins have to make nearly perfect moves several offseasons in a row in order to compete for a WS title down the road. Falvey and Levine have done an excellent job at setting the Twins up for success in the upcoming years. Making a 33, 34, 35, and 36 year old pitcher your highest paid player, and only BIG move they’ll likely get (thanks to the Pohlads) isnt exactly ideal and probably wouldnt work out for the best. Thats all I’m saying.
No need for taking personal shots, your first post implied there is an actual limitation as to why they could not spend the money. They could but choose not to see bucky’s post above. The Twins will hope that every few years these ingredients come together and it will string people along a little further.
Mets sign Betances. 1 year with a option.
That’s why its so sad to see adults keep making excuses for the greedy ownership. Like do they honestly not notice they keep getting this hamster wheel of excuses? Either they “just miss” on the free agents and claim they’ll totally get them next time or they push it back saying they’ll be active in trading once the team proves it can compete. Yet nothing ever happens and still you have these people desperately trying to rationalize why its not a big deal that once again the team took the cheap route.
Yup, in the words of the immortal Yogi Berra it’s like Deja Vu all over again. According to the pocket protectors this is about year 18 of the Twins being smart and not wasting $$ on aging injury prone yet also top end free agents…
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dan wrote:</div>
Falvene/Pohlads and their supporters come up with every excuse in the book.Give me a damn break. As enjoyable as paying an injury riddled 33 year old $20 mil for the next 4 years would be, I’m glad the Twins decided to pass. With the Pohlads tight pocket, Falvine only have 1 opportunity to land a BIG name pitcher and pay them that kind of money.. and now we are upset its not Ryu? Really?! Cmon now. Same story for Bumgarner. Don’t think its Keuchel that pushes them over the top either. Sure, any of them would have been an improvement over Smeltzer, Thorpe, and maybe Pineda for the next few years.. but is it worth using the Twins’ 1 big money acquisition on any of these aging pitchers? To me, its not. Signing any of them to a 1 or 2 year deal was very likely never an option, so forget that. I’ll take the chance at something else coming via trade this offseason… or even at the deadline if it means something EVENTUALLY happens.
I’m sure everyone up in arms now is the same crew that was ready to take a pitchfork to target field when the Falvey/Levine opted against signing Craig Kimbrel long term. Remember that one? Cant blindly throw money places hoping it sticks when the Twins have the talent they do on a limited payroll.
So that makes you five for five being glad we didn’t sign ANY of the quality free agents that were out there Tbro…..I didn’t realize you were top brass on the Board of Pohlad Pocket Protectors. I can’t believe you could honestly say you are glad we didn’t sign ONE of these FAs. I can’t wait til we trade a top prospect for Annibal Sanchez at the trade deadline. That should push us over the top!
The problem here is they had a chance to sign TWO impact pitchers this offseason who could’ve possibly pushed this club further into the postseason, and they failed miserably. Do you really think they passed on all these players so that next season they can spend 50 million on 3 impact starters??? Do you really think the narrative and the same possible problems associated with free agents will change next year???
The problem is this happens EVERY YEAR with this club. No one is saying any of these pitchers were perfect and would’ve taken this club to the World Series….The problem is we never even get the chance to find out.
I’m really looking forward to coming back to this conversation later this year, next year, the year after, and the year after that to show why overpaying old pitchers isnt a good idea. Just in the past few offseasons we’ve seen teams give big money on long term deals to Kimbrel, Brett Cecil, Jansen, Shaw, Chatwood, Kelly, Familia, Eovaldi, Arrieta, Darvish, Kikuchi, and Cobb. All of those deals look pretty poor now, besides maybe Darvish?
A few have worked out, no doubt, but they’re limited. Even in Corbins deal with the Nationals- they won a title, and thats great. Automatically worth it with just that, but now they lost Rendon to FA because of it. That brings up another point- I think the Twins would be smart to lock up the young core, still Berrios and Buxton to go, long term before they start getting too wild spending big money on old pitchers. Just me. And glad Falvine seem to agree with it
And I do apologize Justin. No room for personal shots here.
So that makes you five for five being glad we didn’t sign ANY of the quality free agents that were out there Tbro…..I know you’re an analytics guy but I didn’t realize you were top brass on the Board of Pohlad Pocket Protectors. I can’t believe you could honestly say you are glad we didn’t sign ONE of these FAs.
Never did I mention the top 5 pitchers, mahto. I’ve talked about nothing besides old pitchers with a terrible injury history. How do you fit Cole, Strasburg, or Wheeler into that category? I know you love to nit pick things with me, but cmon. Would have flipped for joy for Cole or Strasburg at about any number. I would have been pretty excited about the Wheeler deal too. Only interested in Ryu or Bumgarner if they were shorter deals, like a 2 year $40-45 with a team option for the third. But common sense tells us none of those were really ever an option.
What do you suggest then Tbro? You seem to think most of us on here are complete idiots, what would YOU do? Your posts seem to have 2 themes:
1. Supporting the Twins company line and
2. Pointing out in retrospect that that something was a bad move. Hindsight refers to being after the fact and having the benefit of time to really determine if something worked out well. It makes it easy to cherry pick some examples of what didn’t work out well.
You’re not wrong on some of it. Aging stars getting paid for what they USED to do doesn’t always work well and maybe money could be spent better. But here is a legit fact: NOTHING the Twins have done is working, either.
Here’s the problem with defending Falvine Tbro. And for the record I’m mostly on your side in not blaming them.
They have said multiple times since they got hired here “When the time is right and the window of opportunity is open, we have the OK from ownership to spend.”
Well guess what? The freaking garage door is open and was all last year as well. Even if we got two more above average arms into the rotation, they would be contending in the playoffs. The drop off is so huge after you get past the first two arms in the rotation that it would help immensely. This is why at the current moment I feel they are more than a fair target for blame.
It also seems to me that you still have that great old Twins mindset of continually building for the future. “2-3 years we will be contenders…..Our young core will be fully matured and all hitting .325 with 30 Hrs. We will have developed our minor league starters (HAAAA, cuz that’s happened NEVER), and we will just have to bring in one more impact arm……..”
Sound familiar yet?
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You truly belong here! 
