Twins 2019

Now with Buxton ready to come off IL (for a few days maybe before another stint, maybe a migrain)I wish they would have packaged him for a good pitcher like the Mets wanted . Cave has played well and there is a log jam of good outfield prospects. He is a spectacular center fielder but thats where it ends. Can’t stay on the field. Who do they send down? Cave does not deserve it. With regular palying time his bat is as good as Buxton. Last years stats were very good. Buxton is not worth a few weeks out of the season that he is able to play. My two cents worth from a fan since the late 60″s.

Buxton’s injuries are frustrating but hes one of the top 3 center fielders in the game of baseball and lets not forget hes also one of the best baserunners in all of baseball too. his bat as been serviceable this year.

Jake Cave is a AAAA-level player. There’s a reason the Mets were asking for Buxton and not Jake Cave. Granted that we’d all like to see him stay on the field more, but Buxton can be a MVP-level player. Plus his value is through the roof because he’s on his first contract. Respectfully, I couldn’t disagree more.

I hope he can stay on the field and finish out the season… otherwise it’s all for not.

Cave is nowhere near the fielder that Buxton is and I am not just talking about speed. He has made several head scratcher plays in the outfield that I can remember since Buxton went down. Yeah, he is batting well, but he does not hit both left and right hand pitching well. He does above average against one, but is terrible against the other.
He also doesnt have a very good arm to throw anyone out from the outfield. Buxton’s is much better, but he also gets to the balls so much faster that gives him more time to throw.

Im interested to see if they bring any of these young pitchers like Graterol. Man, that guy can bring the heat, but I think in the BP would be a good place to work him out initially.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Im interested to see if they bring any of these young pitchers like Graterol. Man, that guy can bring the heat, but I think in the BP would be a good place to work him out initially.

I think they should bring him in just to shake things up if nothing else. Kinda like Major League. Maybe some wild pitches or bean balls just to freak out the batters. Give ’em the heater, Ricky!!

Guys like Buston are a dime a dozen. So he is fast. Should have 60 SB’s a year…..minimum, but can’t stay on the field. Can’t bunt to save his life to try and get on base and use his speed. Has an erratic but plus arm. Essentially he is just a fast outfielder as he does nothing else well. I would have thrown him in the deal for Noah and not even blinked. Cave is not much better so that is likely why they did not include Buston in the trade or they are fixated that he will someday become this 5 tool all-star they imagined.

eyeguy507 wrote:

Guys like Buston are a dime a dozen.

You gotta be kidding me. I bet you’re one of those guys who thought Mauer was bad, too…

eyeguy507 wrote:

Cave is not much better

You’re right, he is nowhere near as good as Buxton. Buxton just needs to stay in the lineup. They are like 30 games over .500 when he plays. Barely .500 when he doesnt.

guys like buxton are not a dime a dozen. If all it took to be a great, not good, but a GREAT center fielder was speed there would be a lot more people on this earth earning millions of dollars to run around a field and catch baseballs. if he has a long career he has the potential to be talked about as one of the greatest outfielders to put on a uniform.

Side note Jake Cave is striking out on over 37% of his at bats this season.

moustachesteve wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>eyeguy507 wrote:</div>
Guys like Buston are a dime a dozen.

You gotta be kidding me. I bet you’re one of those guys who thought Mauer was bad, too…

Mauer was not bad – he just wasn’t worth the super star pay be was being paid. Like most great players his #’s fell off after he got the big payday. The 1st year after he retires and the Twins are having their best year in ALONG time should tell you that Mauer was not the piece to the puzzle that was needed for a winning team. More freed up money to get more GOOD players was

moustachesteve wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>eyeguy507 wrote:</div>
Guys like Buston are a dime a dozen.

You gotta be kidding me. I bet you’re one of those guys who thought Mauer was bad, too…

Bingo! Mauer was the greatest singles hitter in franchise history. Greatest at rolling into an inning ending DP too! I like guys who “drive” the ball. Guys that want to out power the other team. This is a team I like because this is the way I played back in the day. I don’t know anyone that was happy with a walk or a single…..and then I watched how content vanilla Joe was doing it. He was very good his first 5 years and then he was your average Joe. Sorry Mauer ballwashers but he was mostly aweful! Truth hurts, just look at how this team has played without him.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>eyeguy507 wrote:</div>
Cave is not much better

You’re right, he is nowhere near as good as Buxton. Buxton just needs to stay in the lineup. They are like 30 games over .500 when he plays. Barely .500 when he doesnt.

Meaningless stat! Dick beats it in the dirt every time Buston is out of the lineup which is very often. I can come up with one too:

Twins are .608 without Mauer in the lineup!

crappie55369 wrote:

guys like buxton are not a dime a dozen. If all it took to be a great, not good, but a GREAT center fielder was speed there would be a lot more people on this earth earning millions of dollars to run around a field and catch baseballs. if he has a long career he has the potential to be talked about as one of the greatest outfielders to put on a uniform.

Side note Jake Cave is striking out on over 37% of his at bats this season.

You are talking about a career .237 hitter. That’s tip toeing the Mendoza line! He likely would have broke the team strikeout record a year ago but they demoted him back to Rochester. Everyone is fixated on his speed which is basically all he is good at. He may put it all together some day but saying he has potential to be one of the greatest outfielders to put on a uniform is one of the most preposterous statements I have ever read!

eyeguy507 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Steve Kindt wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>eyeguy507 wrote:</div>
Guys like Buston are a dime a dozen.

You gotta be kidding me. I bet you’re one of those guys who thought Mauer was bad, too…

Bingo! Mauer was the greatest singles hitter in franchise history. Greatest at rolling into an inning ending DP too! I like guys who “drive” the ball. Guys that want to out power the other team. This is a team I like because this is the way I played back in the day. I don’t know anyone that was happy with a walk or a single…..and then I watched how content vanilla Joe was doing it. He was very good his first 5 years and then he was your average Joe. Sorry Mauer ballwashers but he was mostly aweful! Truth hurts, just look at how this team has played without him.

I’ll give that a big fat X2.
Mauer was the worst team player in Twins History. Team leadership was non-existent. Did he ever run over and Hi-Five one person? Yell at an Ump? Kick over the chalkboard when the would Yankees kick their butts in the playoffs?
Not “aw shucks” Joe.

I didn’t like Mauer either. But, you have to admit he was a good ballplayer. He wasn’t someone who you should build a team around, but that really isn’t his fault. The fault of leadership to put him in that situation and give him the massive contract. Then again, there would have been outrage (at the time) if we would have let him walk to NY or LA or some other big market team. Turns out, that would have been a blessing in hindsight.

Either way, I’m glad the Mauer era is over!

It’s just too bad the the Twins are the only contending team with starting pitching, relief pitching and injury issues.

Otherwise, a guy could almost get excited about a run to the playoffs.

eyeguy507 wrote:

He may put it all together some day but saying he has potential to be one of the greatest outfielders to put on a uniform is one of the most preposterous statements I have ever read!

I don’t think its preposterous at all. Do i think its likely? No i don’t. I would say its less than a 10% chance. But hes only 25 years old and aside from Trout he probably already is the best center fielder in the league right now. To say he has no chance to be considered one of the best FIELDERS (not complete player) but fielders of all time isn’t out of the realm of possibility should he stay healthy and play center field the way he does now for the next 10-12 years. On a sliding scale i think calling Buxton a dime a dozen is a more ridiculous statement then i have made. JAG’s don’t win platinum glove awards and DPOY awards at the age of 23. GOATS do though

Thought the Buxton post would get some reaction. There is no comparison between Buxton and Cave defensively..if Buxton can stay on the field that would be great. But he doesnt. He certainly isn’t worth another good starting pitcher. Pitching is what will get them deep in the playoffs. Not a centerfielder.

As to Mauer..He was great when he was younger and catching. Good defensive firstbase…very average hitter when switched to first. Worth the investment at that point..I don’t know..not sure his later years were worth it..comparing him and including him with being one of the best Twins of all time no..not even close.

fishthumper wrote:

The 1st year after he retires and the Twins are having their best year in ALONG time should tell you that Mauer was not the piece to the puzzle that was needed for a winning team. More freed up money to get more GOOD players was

The Twins payroll is less this year than it was last year minus Joe’s contract. They’re spending less overall than they were spending on non-Joe players in 2018. To insinuate that Joe’s salary was keeping them from contention is ridiculous, especially in a sport without a salary cap. Also, his career value (although admittedly front-loaded) was higher than his career earnings by quite a bit. He was worth more in wins than he made in $$$, and that’s not counting jersey sales, promotions, advertisements, etc.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

Mauer was the worst team player in Twins History.

:???:Whether or not you like the guy or like him as a player/leader/whatever, this is a preposterous statement.

FWIW I think biggill was being sarcastic. He’s saying that we spend too much griping and should be excited about a contending team. Apologies if I’m misinterpreting

moustachesteve wrote:

FWIW I think biggill was being sarcastic. He’s saying that we spend too much griping and should be excited about a contending team. Apologies if I’m misinterpreting

Sorry. My fault. I forgot to use the sarcasm font.

biggill wrote:

Sorry. My fault. I forgot to use the sarcasm font.

Wasn’t calling you out, biggill. Was replying to Ripjiggen
I’m bad at this interwebz thing. I think we’d all agree that it’s more fun with meaningful games in September.

Ripjiggen wrote:

Biggil several other playoff teams with pitching issues. Yankees Braves are a few that come to mind. Hell the Cleveland fan base wanted to cut Brand Hand last week.

Looks like you guys are going to get your fill of Jake Cave. Boxton will be shut down for 4 weeks

moustachesteve wrote:

Wasn’t calling you out, biggill. Was replying to Ripjiggen

No biggie. My response was a little dry.

I find sports threads fascinating because there is always a good number of people that want to predict what’ll be the downfall of a hot team so at the end of the season they can say I told you so. Pretty much the same way sports radio works. As if not winning a championship signifies a failure of a season that is almost not worth watching.

Twins are 52-23 when Buxton is in the lineup (which is the best individual winning % in the league by the way). Twins are under.500 when he isnt. Even with the games hes missed so far this year, he STILL leads the league in SABR’s defensive index for outfielders. He’s been well above average in most offensive statistics this year, traditional and analytic. “Only” has 14 SBs, but thats partially because he has more doubles than singles. I’m sorry but if you actually think Cave is as good or better than Buxton is than you need to pick up a baseball for dummies book. Cmon. Dont care if you’ve been watching the team since the 60s or not lol

tbro16 wrote:

Twins are 52-23 when Buxton is in the lineup (which is the best individual winning % in the league by the way). Twins are under.500 when he isnt.

I don’t think he can really take the credit for those #s per say. How many of those wins did he go 0-4 and have nothing but routine flyouts in CF, cause Odorizzi or Berrios were on rails early this year? He’s a great fielder, for the games that he’s made amazing catches. But maybe the guy is to injury prone to rely on long term. I wouldn’t say trade him exactly, but if he can’t figure out how to dive or hit the fence and stay in the lineup, how does he help us on the IL?

Teams like the White Sox and Indians say pitchers like Giolito and Bieber are virtually untouchable. Like a lot of people around here say Buxton is. And yet would you trade Byron for a young promising arm like either one of those two guys?

Loaded question… I already have my answer..

Thats fair, one year is a small sample size. How about 3?

Over the last 3 seasons, the Twins have played at a 95 win pace (133-95) with Buxton in the lineup and a 74 win pace (109-128) without him. Sure, sucks hes hurt a lot and he does no good on the IL, but its clear the Twins are substantially better with him around. I think its worth the risk to keep him around as long as possible and just hope he can stay healthy. He’s worth it.

Nice win tonight. Bats did just well enough against a very good pitcher and Big Mike had another good start. Our most consistent pitcher over the last couple months. Imagine that.