Twins 2019

Picture this, the twins are 15 games out at the break this year. Rosario is on fire, gets his overdue all-star selection. Twins show no sign of competing. Who needs a good OF? Twins will get offers the couldn’t refuse. Why stop there, trade the rest.
The problem with “intentionally” not pushing for playoffs and more, because it’s not your time, is your best guys are gonna leave. Everyone wants max contracts. And a team with real potential and deep pockets, usually gets their man. We seem to be neither of those teams.
I’d personally rather see them spend their budget and try to at least win the division every year. That would at least make us look like a contender that could attract a long term deal to a top caliber player.
Hopefully this years batch of free agent signings is enough to make it exciting into late September.

tbro16 wrote:

Not that I’m making an excuse for them but now isnt their time to win.

If this isn’t a year to win the central, there never will be one. All of our young guys are in year 2 or more, it’s time for them to put up or rebuild. If the front office won’t attempt to surround them with talent, then they should admit to a rebuild. Basically they’re saying to the young core, we need you to win more with 3 terrible starters and no bullpen. I’m fine with them not signing Machado or Harper, but there’s no reason they aren’t in on Kuechel or any of the top relievers listed earlier.

Pailofperch wrote:

Picture this, the twins are 15 games out at the break this year. Rosario is on fire, gets his overdue all-star selection. Twins show no sign of competing. Who needs a good OF? Twins will get offers the couldn’t refuse. Why stop there, trade the rest.
The problem with “intentionally” not pushing for playoffs and more, because it’s not your time, is your best guys are gonna leave. Everyone wants max contracts. And a team with real potential and deep pockets, usually gets their man. We seem to be neither of those teams.
I’d personally rather see them spend their budget and try to at least win the division every year. That would at least make us look like a contender that could attract a long term deal to a top caliber player.
Hopefully this years batch of free agent signings is enough to make it exciting into late September.

100% agree. People gave the Twins ish when they’d lose in the first round of the playoffs every year in the 2000’s, but those were awesome years! TF was packed and a great scene, and at least there was a chance of a WS. Last I checked you still need to make the playoffs to win a WS…

In todays market you suck until you bring in enough homegrown talent to see a light at the end of the tunnel. Think Milwaukee. You then go buy a couple key players (Cain, Yelish) and then hope your pitching is good enough. That buys you 3 more years with your fans even if you don’t get to the World Series. In those 3 years you sell all the tickets and jerseys possible. Raise ticket, parking, concession prices. (BTW, those prices never go back down even when you enter in the sucking stage again) You milk the proverbial cow. Rinse & repeat.

It’s a time proven process for mid to small market teams. It’s estimated Tampa Bay (the poster child of small market teams) is worth $900+ million. With the push to get a tax payer funded stadium built is it any wonder ownership hangs on?
As fans we can’t buy the notion the teams don’t make money or can’t afford players. If they were losing money why are no teams for sale?

As true baseball fans we can only enjoy the game for what it is. Enjoy the players that come and go. Personally I do this by listening on the radio and the occasional TV game. I don’t buy jerseys, don’t buy tickets. I’m more of a fan of MLB then of the Twins specifically. I like the Cardinals, Cubs, Red Sox for the deep pocket teams. Hate the Whities & Dodgers because…..well they are the Whities & Dodgers.

If you get caught up in the team must spend and be a contender year in and year out you will drive yourself crazy.

It’s the game and only the game that should us keep coming back.

The whole issue that I think everyone has is we’re still stuck in the wait and see game that this franchise has ALWAYS stuck by. It’s always “if Mauer and Morneau get back to their old selves this year” or “if Buxton and Sano play more than 100 games this team could be in it” or “If Liriano get’s back to his potential Cy Young ways.”

It’s never we’re going out and trying to get better. That’s the issue and it has spanned the life of this franchise…..And now we get to deal with the smoke and mirrors these two young stat boys keep throwing at us every time they sign an awful player.

BigWerm wrote:

If this isn’t a year to win the central, there never will be one.

In addition to your reasons, think about this: Cleveland knows it’s extremely likely to win our awful division, so they’ve been cutting some payroll and still expected to make the playoffs. Who knows, maybe they get hot and make a deep run? With a playoff series their franchise can benefit from increased ticket sales, playoff ticket sales, and increased merchandise sales. And they’re gonna do it on the cheap because they know no one else in the division is trying, including the Twins. Pathetic.

Pailofperch wrote:

Rosario is on fire, gets his overdue all-star selection. Twins show no sign of competing. Who needs a good OF? Twins will get offers the couldn’t refuse. Why stop there, trade the rest.

That isnt how the MLB works. All of the Twins’ most valuable players are in ARB year 1. They are stuck on the Twins for a minimum of 2 or 3 more years, depending on their service time. The only players the Twins would trade this year would be Gibby, Castro, Cruz, and Odorizzi. Falvey and Levine have come out and stated that they are waiting to see what they have from their core guys before they get aggressive. If the Twins are in position to compete this year, they’ll look into improving mid-season. (whether that actually happens, i dont know, but I still think they’re going about this correctly)

BigWerm wrote:

If this isn’t a year to win the central, there never will be one. All of our young guys are in year 2 or more, it’s time for them to put up or rebuild.

They’re 25. The Indians are still awesome. Detroit and KC will be terrible for at least a few years. Patience people.

BigWerm wrote:

I’m fine with them not signing Machado or Harper, but there’s no reason they aren’t in on Kuechel

Kuechel is 31 and already on the down swing. Lets take a glance at his numbers before we claim hes still an all star caliber pitcher. Machado and Harper are 26. Again, Mauer JUST got off the books. People did nothing but complain when he was making $20+ mil at his age. Guess what they’d be paying a 35 year old Kuechel? (gag)

I’m really amazed no one has signed Harper or Machado yet, it’s a nearly unprecedented situation.

Normally, a player reaches FA at like 30 and owners balk at paying them $20M+ a year when they are 35, 36, 37. As the list of players who maintain their production at those ages are basically Barry Bonds and Nelson Cruz.

But Harper/Machado you could sign for 10 years and get TEN YEARS of them in their prime. It should be a no brainer for teams, barring injury(of which they have insurance for), these guys should see little to no degradation over the course of the contract.

In the Twins case signing Machado for $30 million per year for 10 years would push their payroll to over $40 million per year. Unsustainable.

Dutchboy wrote:

In the Twins case signing Machado for $30 million per year for 10 years would push their payroll to over $40 million per year. Unsustainable.

One things for sure, MN sports fans could definitely find something to complain about even if one of those guys puts up MVP numbers for a decade.

“Well sure he’s won 8 MVP awards, but how many world series has he brought to MN? WHAT A HACK”

philtickelson wrote:

I’m really amazed no one has signed Harper or Machado yet, it’s a nearly unprecedented situation.

I think teams are shying away from the long term contracts especially with the big time free agents. Investing in deals that long, for that much money is not smart in my opinion because if it doesn’t pan out you can’t trade them because nobody wants to pick up the salary. Not to mention neither of these two guys have ever been accused of being a good clubhouse guy.

Even MLB.com is trolling the Twins. One of the headlines on the home page was “This team doesn’t have a closer, and Kimbrel is still out there”

Opened it up thinking, this has to be about the Twins, sure enough I was right.

mahtofire14 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>philtickelson wrote:</div>
I’m really amazed no one has signed Harper or Machado yet, it’s a nearly unprecedented situation.

I think teams are shying away from the long term contracts especially with the big time free agents. Investing in deals that long, for that much money is not smart in my opinion because if it doesn’t pan out you can’t trade them because nobody wants to pick up the salary. Not to mention neither of these two guys have ever been accused of being a good clubhouse guy.

Terrible CBA situation aside, I think I can understand that in most cases, but this is a fairly unique situation with players of Machado/Harper’s talents available at this young an age.

This is as low-risk (not no risk) of a ‘big’ investment/contract as there will ever be in the MLB. If they don’t sign big time deal($ + years), ALL future free agents are screwed. If they get people to believe there is too much risk in Harper/Machado(remember, catastrophic injuries are insured for these big contracts), then they have duped the fans because this is THE LOWEST risk for this type of deal we’ve ever seen. This isn’t Albert Pujols signing at 32 years old.

It’s a perfect example of why the FA system and CBA are just jacked up in the MLB. If players of Harper and Machado’s talent can’t get a large contract at their age, then no one can.

Meanwhile the Twins are projecting like $300M in revenue this year and are sitting at about 30% salary/revenue ratio when they have suggested they’d be at 50%.

It’s nothing more than the owners trying to continually lower/minimize contract size to keep costs down/maximize profits. All while spinning it as ‘too much risk’ or ‘too big an investment’. They get the majority of fans to buy into this ‘well they just play a game for a living, do they need to get paid that much?’ rhetoric and there you go, they own the players for nothing until they are 29. Then refuse to pay them what they are worth when they hit free agency because ‘they can’t take on that much risk for the 2nd half of the contract’.

I understand it, they are businessmen and are trying to maximize profits, but don’t spin it as a personnel or baseball decision, because that’s just total crap.

The Machado / Harper contracts are easy to sell ownership. Remember all along it has been the agents suggesting $300 to $400 million dollar contracts. Not once has the clubs suggested that.Even the Nats $300 million offer was likely backloaded and one they knew Harper would decline.

Both Harper & Machado want $30+ million per year. Some club will give them $90 million for 3 years with a player option for a fourth. A win for the player and a win for the club.

Harper will get more than Machado.
Twins will get neither.
Neither is worth 30 million per no matter the contract length.
Twins would need to be fools to even consider Kimbrel or any top line closer.

Until they know Buxton, Sano, Kepler can play and Rosario isn’t a one year flash in the pan they need to sit tight. Along with those 4 are you sure Schoop & Cruz will perform? That leaves you a PED convict (Polanco) a framer and a new guy at first.

A lot of if’s along with a questionable pitching staff. Not to mention a new untested manager.

If you don’t mind i’ll keep my ticket money and watch this one from the sidelines.

Dutchboy wrote:

Until they know Buxton, Sano, Kepler can play and Rosario isn’t a one year flash in the pan they need to sit tight. Along with those 4 are you sure Schoop & Cruz will perform? That leaves you a PED convict (Polanco) a framer and a new guy at first.

A lot of if’s along with a questionable pitching staff. Not to mention a new untested manager.

You’re exactly right. Levine said himself just this weekend that Machado/Harper are the acquisitions that would be more likely to come when the Twins are favorites for the division and ready to “put their foot down.”

One could argue that a Machado/Harper acquisition would make the Twins the favorite in the division, but I dont think thats the case quite yet.

Still need bullpen even if you have a potent lineup…..Dodgers are a prime example.

Here we go again….

https://www.mlb.com/twins/news/miguel-sano-wearing-boot-on-injured-right-foot/c-304150984

From what I’ve heard though it’s a laceration. Obviously it’s an injury but it’s not a strain, sprain, break, etc. So he may have just cut it doing something.

Machado to Padres for 10 years, $300 million

Dan wrote:

From what I’ve heard though it’s a laceration. Obviously it’s an injury but it’s not a strain, sprain, break, etc. So he may have just cut it doing something.

Yeah I know….But it’s just always something with this guy. It’s causing him to miss a week of cage time and fielding time. He can’t afford that if he thinks he’s going to have a better season.

hman wrote:

Machado to Padres for 10 years, $300 million

I was reading an article that said the Padres aren’t in a position to contend right now, but they’ve got a real good farm system so this was an investment, and when their younger stars hit their primes in a few years they’ll already have one of the best in the game locked up so they should be primed to make a run. Nice to see an organization with a plan. The Twins have shown that they’ll wait and see if some of their current players (Buxton and Sano) ever do get good, then I guess they’ll open the wallet and get a superstar….? (Ron Burgandy question voice)

Dan wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>hman wrote:</div>
Machado to Padres for 10 years, $300 million

I was reading an article that said the Padres aren’t in a position to contend right now, but they’ve got a real good farm system so this was an investment, and when their younger stars hit their primes in a few years they’ll already have one of the best in the game locked up so they should be primed to make a run. Nice to see an organization with a plan. The Twins have shown that they’ll wait and see if some of their current players (Buxton and Sano) ever do get good, then I guess they’ll open the wallet and get a superstar….? (Ron Burgandy question voice)

Here’s the difference: The Twins haven’t developed a prospect since Mauer came up.

hman wrote:

Machado to Padres for 10 years, $300 million

Gross. “I’m not Johnny Hustle” has even less incentive to hustle now. You think 1b Mauer was an albatross, wait until you see this clown in 3 years. 29 year old Machado will be playing like the current 39-year-old version of the great Albert Pujols. It’s a shame because I have always liked and loosely followed the Padres because I grew up idolizing Tony Gwynn.

I was really hoping the White Sox would sign this guy.

mahtofire14 wrote:

Here’s the difference: The Twins haven’t developed a prospect since Mauer came up.

Buxton and Sano havent done squat but guys like Dozier, Berrios, and Rosario would tend to disagree. Pressly, Kep, and Polanco have each shown something as well.

Pretty interesting to me that after all this time, Machado still ended up getting the exact contract he wanted. Turns out he declined an 8yr $250mil offer from the chi sox. Must have been afraid of the Twins pitching staff lol.

tbro16 wrote:

Pretty interesting to me that after all this time, Machado still ended up getting the exact contract he wanted.

I thought the same thing when I saw the story today-why did it take about 4 months to settle on the same number that was mentioned at the beginning of the offseason?

Dutchboy wrote:

Twins would need to be fools to even consider Kimbrel or any top line closer.

If you believe the Pohlad’s wallet is open (spoiler alert, I don’t) this would be a good signing on a 3 year or less deal, and they’d have a great asset to flip at the trade deadline if the young guys don’t take that next step.

Dutchboy wrote:

If you don’t mind i’ll keep my ticket money and watch this one from the sidelines.

Welcome Dutch, I knew it was just a matter of time!

I’ll wait until after the analytics guys have completely ruined the sport before I sneak back in. I mean really, whats more exciting then watching 8 pitchers strike out 16 guys a game.

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
Here’s the difference: The Twins haven’t developed a prospect since Mauer came up.

Buxton and Sano havent done squat but guys like Dozier, Berrios, and Rosario would tend to disagree. Pressly, Kep, and Polanco have each shown something as well.

Pretty interesting to me that after all this time, Machado still ended up getting the exact contract he wanted. Turns out he declined an 8yr $250mil offer from the chi sox. Must have been afraid of the Twins pitching staff lol.

Berrios is the only one on this list I will agree with you on and even he has only had 1.5 decent seasons. Rosario has had one SOLID year. Dozier hit home runs and did nothing else. Kepler is a career .233 hitter and hasn’t driven in 70 RBI in a season….Polanco has shown flashes, but can’t stay on the field just like Buxton and Sano, who just made Bleacher Reports Top 25 biggest busts under 25, finishing at a respectable 4th and 5th. Pressly had a great arm and the Twins didn’t know what to do with him so they shipped him out. Here’s where you are wrong. The two I remotely agree with you on (Berrios, Rosario) had good years for TWINS players. Just average years for the league…..

I will stand with my previous statement.

I used to be a die hard Twins fan and would listen to games on the radio in the boat or wherever. This year, we will still watch opening day and grill hot dogs as is our family tradition, but my interest will likely wane as the season progresses and they fall out of contention again.

As for the MLB in general… I’m glad they made some changes to speed up the game. But maybe they should limit the number of pitchers used in a game? That might make it more interesting instead of all these guys coming in to face one batter. I kinda feel like all the analytics is ruining the game for me also.

Twins will compete in the division for a while only because there are no viable teams other than the Twins & Cleveland. If the Twins get passed by Detroit, Chicago or Kansas City then they will suck more then expected.