Twins 2019

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>lindyrig79 wrote:</div>
Plus you missed 2017.

The play-in game?

Yeah, I just said chance for post-season play. To be in contention.

Yeah, but even that year dutchboy had something valid to complain about. That team had really no business beating even the Yankees.

I agree with everything you said though. I just can’t muster the motivation to watch 100 losses.

I sure wish they wouldn’t have let Kimbrel slip thru their fingers.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

I sure wish they wouldn’t have let Kimbrel slip thru their fingers.

I share the same sentiment. I really hope that this indicates they’re working up something else for some quality arm(s), but part of me is already trying to accept the fact that they haven’t/won’t do anything to improve.

Missing out on Kimbrel hurts. They will need to Trade for help in that bullpen now not later. No moves and we will either miss the playoffs or bounce first round.

No surprise, a tiger doesn’t change it’s stripes. And the company line out of Baldelli and Falvine sounds just like it did with Gardy/Molitor and Terry Ryan/Bill Smith. The Twins OWNERS do NOT care about winning, to think otherwise disputes decades of evidence.

BigWerm wrote:

No surprise, a tiger doesn’t change it’s stripes. And the company line out of Baldelli and Falvine sounds just like it did with Gardy/Molitor and Terry Ryan/Bill Smith. The Twins OWNERS do NOT care about winning, to think otherwise disputes decades of evidence.

My thoughts exactly. What a joke. This season has been awesome, one of the most fun Twins seasons of my life. ESPN was just debating yesterday who has the best odds to make the World Series, Dodgers or Twins. They’re close, their window is not, and ownership and management are STILL NOT TRYING. Build us Target Field so we can spend more money to win? BS. We’ll make big moves when the “window” is open? BS. They could still make a big trade (which isn’t likely because we’d be giving up prospects i.e. cheaper players) but as it sits, they’ve had 7 months to sign Kimbrel and didn’t. Should’ve done it a month ago when no one else was making a move at him. All for a %$#%ing 3rd-round pick? We gave that up for Lance Lynn last year!

Also, I really hope this puts to bed all the talk of not winning in previous years because “Mauer’s contract held us back.” He’s long gone, and they’re still not spending money. This could change, they could surprise us, but nothing about this organization has changed, and the Pohlads make the roster, not Mauer.

Cheap A$$ Pohlads. Is anyone really surprised? Kimbrell to cubs, kuechel to braves. It’s the fans that have no clue and keep stuffing the Pohlads pockets by going to the taxpayers stadium. I’ll continue to tune in but this is the same ol $hit. Carl is rolling over in his grave.

Pretty disappointing :(. There no way a guy like Kimberly doesn’t immediately make this bullpen way better.

I hope they pull off a nice trade at the deadline, I have my heart set on a deal for Stroman/Giles from the blue jays.

What about the farm? Dont we have a few good arms that are ready down there we could call up and throw in the pen?

crappie55369 wrote:

What about the farm? Dont we have a few good arms that are ready down there we could call up and throw in the pen?

Being cheap will now cost the farm for acquiring established talent.

eyeguy507 wrote:

Being cheap will now cost the farm for acquiring established talent.

Exactly. Signing Kimbrel would’ve just cost money. Now a trade will involve an existing player or prospect. And since the Twins typically think they’re outsmarting everyone by hording their prospects and not making trades they probably won’t make a big trade either. And if they do in fact do a trade…..then why not have just given up that stupid 3rd-rounder for signing Kimbrel earlier? That hesitation by so many teams to give up that 3rd-rounder is one of the most overblown strategies I’ve ever seen.

I do think Kimbrell was a no brainer but I think people forget that he got to choose where he wanted to go. It’s not like the Twins had the first and only shot at him. I’m not surprised he went to the Cubs over the Twins.

(of course this is IF the Twins actually offered him a similar contract as they’ve stated)

Dan wrote:

then why not have just given up that stupid 3rd-rounder for signing Kimbrel earlier?

They would have had to give up a 3rd rounder AND paid him what he thought he’d get in the market. Obviously we weren’t even in the ballpark $$$ wise as we didn’t get him and reportedly didn’t even come in 2nd as the big market Tampa Bay Rays were…

Twins likely made an offer to Kimbrel but everyone here knows they cannot outbid the cubs. Also, the Twins having prospects to trade is a reason for them not to overpay Kimbrel. The cubs have absolutely no farm system so they were forced to push every penny into him.

If the Twins stand pat in July I will be ready to picket the stadium with pitchforks as much as anyone, but until then I’ll be content with what they’ve got. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. After seeing what little relief pitchers have been traded for in the last few years at the deadline, I’d gladly give up some middle of the road prospects than overpaying some aging reliever. Get that money to Odo, Buxton, or Berrios.

tbro16 wrote:

Twins likely made an offer to Kimbrel but everyone here knows they cannot outbid the cubs. Also, the Twins having prospects to trade is a reason for them not to overpay Kimbrel. The cubs have absolutely no farm system so they were forced to push every penny into him.

If the Twins stand pat in July I will be ready to picket the stadium with pitchforks as much as anyone, but until then I’ll be content with what they’ve got. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. After seeing what little relief pitchers have been traded for in the last few years at the deadline, I’d gladly give up some middle of the road prospects than overpaying some aging reliever. Get that money to Odo, Buxton, or Berrios.

Agreed

Fun to watch and good win tonight.
Sure would be nice to have a lights out closer.

^^^^^^exactly

Turned the radio off after the seventh. I’m not superstitious, but had a feeling turning it off would help the odds of a comeback.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

Fun to watch and good win tonight.
Sure would be nice to have a lights out closer.

It sure would be! Made me a little nervous letting the first 2 on in the 9th. Luckily he was able to close it out. Another great win!

tbro16 wrote:

Twins likely made an offer to Kimbrel but everyone here knows they cannot outbid the cubs.

The Twins payroll is $10m less than last year, and Kimbrel signed for 3 years $45M, try again. If the Twins didn’t like him for any of the legitimate (imo) reasons, that’s fine but they WERE trying to get him and didn’t. We are told over and over again the Pohlad’s wallet is open…it just NEVER gets used. Pitching (Starting and relievers) will be the downfall of this squad in the playoffs, unless they add significant (like 2 top end of game relievers, AND a #3 or higher starter) help via trade. Perez is already showing signs of returning to his mean, and the bullpen is a paper champ thus far but doesn’t pass the eye test.

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>
Twins likely made an offer to Kimbrel but everyone here knows they cannot outbid the cubs.

The Twins payroll is $10m less than last year, and Kimbrel signed for 3 years $45M, try again. If the Twins didn’t like him for any of the legitimate (imo) reasons, that’s fine but they WERE trying to get him and didn’t. We are told over and over again the Pohlad’s wallet is open…it just NEVER gets used. Pitching (Starting and relievers) will be the downfall of this squad in the playoffs, unless they add significant (like 2 top end of game relievers, AND a #3 or higher starter) help via trade. Perez is already showing signs of returning to his mean, and the bullpen is a paper champ thus far but doesn’t pass the eye test.

Bullpen isn’t a paper champ anymore. I read over the last 2 weeks the bullpen has an ERA of +7.oo. Can’t remember the exact numbers. That was before last night.

They will make some moves in the next month and beyond. I just hope they make the right ones.

This wasnt last resort. Twins have 6 weeks before the deadline. Why are people so butt hurt about this? Twins liked Kimbrel, sure, like 29 other teams but in the end they were unwilling to give him a 3rd year on his deal. Thank god. We all know the Pohlads pocket is not open. We all SHOULD know at this point that they wont open it because they had a nice start to the season. Remember when people on here were pissed off they werent willing to give Darvish his $200 mil deal? CHEAP POHLADS blah, blah, blah. Or maybe its that Levine/Falvey just know what they’re doing?

Kimbrels velocity is already down, fly ball rate + line drive rate up, ground ball rate down. ERA was 4.5 and WHIP was 1.2 in the 2nd half of last year. You wanna give an aging reliever a 3 year contract cubs? Go for it. Damn glad the Twins didnt overpay him.

It’s definitely possible they know something we don’t, but he had a K/9 of 14.1 in the 2nd half, he was still missing bats at a historically good rate. His 2nd half ERA and WHIP are made up of 21.2 innings pitched. It’s definitely a possibility that something happened over the all star break to turn him into a pumpkin for the rest of his career, but I’m going to bet on him being a very valuable reliever for the foreseeable future.

Will he have the longevity of Mariano? Probably not, but his numbers through his first 9 years are other worldly.

Mariano after 9 years of relief pitching: 2.04 ERA, 7.8 K/9, 1.008 WHIP

Kimbrel: 1.91 ERA, 14.7 K/9, 0.920 WHIP

Aroldis Chapman: 2.19 ERA, 14.9 K/9, 1.009 WHIP

I am baffled that people are talking about Kimbrel like some over the hill, cooked goose. An 80% effective Kimbrel is still probably a top 10 reliever in the league.

His hard hit % in 2018 was the lowest it’s been since 2015, his fly ball % was up slightly from 2017, but lower than 2016, and I’d be surprised if that’s not a league-wide trend given the ‘launch angle’ philosophy of hitting now, but his HR/FB% is steady with his career.

The only thing you said that’s really true or potentially meaningful is his slight velocity dip, but he’s still throwing high 90s, striking out just as many batters, and not getting hit harder, so I don’t really see the problem.

You aren’t wrong because he has been one of the best closers of all time throughout his career. No question. But even with that crazy high strikeout rate, his FIP was 3.13 and ERA+ of 160. That’s good, that would help the twins right now, BUT its no where near elite. Even with the game changing, the balls that are hit off him are being hit much harder and hes walking more guys. Two of the last 3 years his BB/9 rate is >4.5! There will be several relief options available at the deadline that will come at much less of a cost to the twins currently and in the future. Falvey/Levine will have the option to acquire rentals or long term guys signed through next season if they choose. Cubs have been so desperate for bullpen help all season and they don’t have the prospects to trade for one. They would have given the guy a key to the city if they needed too. VERY smart for the Twins to stay out of a bidding war with the Cubs imo.

Tonight is a prime example of why launch angle isn’t the end all be all to hitting and good pitchers will always trump hitting. Sure they’re hitting more home runs (actually that might be just because the balls are juiced) but when facing a pitcher that actually knows how to pitch (changes speeds and locates) these hitters don’t have a chance. Tommy Milone hasn’t hit 89 on the gun and he’s making the Twins look like they’re facing Max Scherzer. Change up is still the most unhittable pitch in the game and the Twins batters are finding that out tonight.

tbro16 wrote:

Why are people so butt hurt about this?

tbro16 wrote:

he has been one of the best closers of all time throughout his career. No question.

I think you answered your own question there.

tbro16 wrote:

aging

Missed one important detail

tbro16 wrote:

Why are people so butt hurt about this?

Because everyone knew we needed bullpen help heading into the season, and they didn’t sign any of the top FA relievers. Then the best one on the market doesn’t sign, and the Twins won’t pony up a 3rd rounder to sign him, and then get out bid on a pretty reasonable contract. But according to GM Thad Levine “would be very open to spending aggressively on assets that we could use to propel our team forward this year and for years to come.”, but just NEVER do.

Also, to act like Kimbrel signed for some crazy amount is just false, he didn’t even get top 10 reliever money. And with the Twins low payroll they could have front loaded his contract and had him at a very manageable price in years 2 and 3 when Kimbrel will be the whopping 34 years old (sarcasm, he’s not a Running Back) and they have more players re-signing.

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/relief-pitcher/