Raise your hand if you think
Pinada
Gibson
Perez
Odorizziwill continue to throw this well all season.
I could also add about half the bullpen to the list.
Gibson yes, Ordorizzi yes, Perez I think so. Pineda if he goes six innings and gives up less than four runs I’m ok with that.
People seem to forget Gibson was our best pitcher the whole second half of last season. Sub 4.00 ERA all year and got ZERO offense behind him.
Heck of a first start for Smeltzer last night. Gotta feel good for a guy like that. Now for a long road trip
Heck of a first start for Smeltzer last night. Gotta feel good for a guy like that. Now for a long road trip
Absolutely! The bullpen still makes me nervous on this team. Tough 4 games ahead in Tampa. Should be a fun series to watch
Baldelli over manages again and steals the kids first career win…..I like him, but man he over thinks pitching.
Baldelli over manages again and steals the kids first career win…..I like him, but man he over thinks pitching.
ML debut, only a 3 pitch mix, and a fast ball that averaged 89 mph? I’m just fine with Rocco pulling him when he did vs. a very dangerous lineup. He didn’t “steal” a win from him, atleast not in my opinion.
My issue with Rocco and the bullpen was the night prior when Harper came in to face 3 lefties (including one switch hitter) and then brought in Rogers to face a right handed bat, and then an additional few right handed hitters the following inning- when the Brewers did their damage.
Platooning a bullpen to the opposing teams lineup isn’t meant to be difficult, but it was for Rocco in their loss.
6 innings of shutout ball and not looking tired or having hard hit balls against him. Not to mention LESS THAT 70 PITCHES THROWN. No other manager in baseball wouldve done that.
BS.
Also, if you have a fastball, curveball, and changeup, and can locate, you only need a three pitch mix. Just ask Berrios.
only a 3 pitch mix
How many pitchers have 4 or more? 3 would be pretty standard imo, and a lot of pitchers get by with less, including one of the greatest of all time, Mariano Rivera, who basically had one pitch.
He looked very promising against a good hitting lineup, I wonder why he was pulled so early though? I’m looking forward to watching the full 4 game series against the Devil Rays starting tonight, this will be another good test to see how legit this team is!
Wins….most over rated stat in baseball next to the save. That kid had a great debut but now there is video of him at this level so we shall see what he will do for an encore.
If you have an 89mph fastball, you better locate it and have 2 other pitches. Hader has 1 pitch but its 97mph and he locates it. Smeltzer has a funky delivery so he will be able to fool a bunch of guys.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>
only a 3 pitch mixHow many pitchers have 4 or more? 3 would be pretty standard imo, and a lot of pitchers get by with less, including one of the greatest of all time, Mariano Rivera, who basically had one pitch.
you only need a three pitch mix. Just ask Berrios
Berrios has 4 pitches. Four seamer, two seamer/sinker, change, and curve. And how can you think Rocco would be the only manager to pull him there? Young pitchers don’t go deep in games. Best pitcher in baseball this year has only gotten outs in the 7th three times in his 8 starts. He’s 22. Countless more examples out there.
Bigwerm, that’s exactly it. Relievers typically have 3 or less pitches. Most can get away with two because they never face the same hitter twice in one night. Starters almost always have more than 3. That was Smeltzers beginning of the 3rd time through the lineup. Big league hitters can easily pick up on 3 pitches after their first few at bats, especially if they know he doesn’t have a 97 mph heater in his back pocket. Great start by the young kid, great move by Rocco to pull him before it was too late. Not like he had a 5 run cushion to work with.
As realativly new to being an ‘active’ baseball fan in my opinion I’d think the damage caused to his confidence for a young starter if you leave him out and guys start hitting on him would far outweigh the confidence gained if left in and (hope) he continues to do well. But then I’ve grown used to watching the Brewers bullpen for the last year plus so pulling a starter early really isn’t much to get concerned over.
I’d think the damage caused to his confidence for a young starter if you leave him out and guys start hitting on him would far outweigh the confidence gained if left in and (hope) he continues to do well.
And it’s for this reason that I’m fine with Baldelli pulling his starter too soon this one time. Six shutout innings could be wiped away with one bad inning, and that’s the mental image/lack of confidence that will stick with the guy.
Otherwise it usually drives me nuts when managers (and Rocco’s by far not the only one) let the number “100” dictate when a starter is done. None of us know what the manager/pitching coach is hearing from the pitcher or have all the data available, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt in most cases. But when an inning ends with a pitcher at, say 96 pitches, you can almost guarantee he’s not going back out, and it’s obvious why.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>
only a 3 pitch mixHow many pitchers have 4 or more? 3 would be pretty standard imo, and a lot of pitchers get by with less, including one of the greatest of all time, Mariano Rivera, who basically had one pitch.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
you only need a three pitch mix. Just ask BerriosBerrios has 4 pitches. Four seamer, two seamer/sinker, change, and curve. And how can you think Rocco would be the only manager to pull him there? Young pitchers don’t go deep in games. Best pitcher in baseball this year has only gotten outs in the 7th three times in his 8 starts. He’s 22. Countless more examples out there.
Bigwerm, that’s exactly it. Relievers typically have 3 or less pitches. Most can get away with two because they never face the same hitter twice in one night. Starters almost always have more than 3. That was Smeltzers beginning of the 3rd time through the lineup. Big league hitters can easily pick up on 3 pitches after their first few at bats, especially if they know he doesn’t have a 97 mph heater in his back pocket. Great start by the young kid, great move by Rocco to pull him before it was too late. Not like he had a 5 run cushion to work with.
If you throw a fastball you can throw it two seam or four seam. Nobody only throws a four seam fastball or only a two seam fastball.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>poomunk wrote:</div>
I’d think the damage caused to his confidence for a young starter if you leave him out and guys start hitting on him would far outweigh the confidence gained if left in and (hope) he continues to do well.And it’s for this reason that I’m fine with Baldelli pulling his starter too soon this one time. Six shutout innings could be wiped away with one bad inning, and that’s the mental image/lack of confidence that will stick with the guy.
Otherwise it usually drives me nuts when managers (and Rocco’s by far not the only one) let the number “100” dictate when a starter is done. None of us know what the manager/pitching coach is hearing from the pitcher or have all the data available, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt in most cases. But when an inning ends with a pitcher at, say 96 pitches, you can almost guarantee he’s not going back out, and it’s obvious why.
What about when it’s 67? As I said earlier, I like Rocco, I think he’s done a lot of good things with the club, obviously. I’m just saying if I’m that pitcher or any other pitcher on this staff, it would be driving me crazy right now. Imagine being Taylor Rodgers and being pulled after getting two outs and then Rocco coming out and saying “hey bud, I’m taking you out for Trevor May” (another right handed pitcher).
He over manages his pitchers. Period.
whether its this new management or previous experience, you cant help but wonder if all the future arms just get the TJ surgery out of the way now before dealing with it later. For a good stretch there, it seemed like every prospect the Twins admired ended up with the surgery. Bad luck……maybe?
Frankie
Nathan
Baker
May
Gibby
just these off the top of my head…..even the fat kid Sano had it!
looks like they got smoked tonight….I was busy trying to trace wires in my boat but if they split with the Rays, it will be a small victory.
whether its this new management or previous experience, you cant help but wonder if all the future arms just get the TJ surgery out of the way now before dealing with it later. For a good stretch there, it seemed like every prospect the Twins admired ended up with the surgery. Bad luck……maybe?
Frankie
Nathan
Baker
May
Gibbyjust these off the top of my head…..even the fat kid Sano had it!
looks like they got smoked tonight….I was busy trying to trace wires in my boat but if they split with the Rays, it will be a small victory.
It’s a biproduct of the game today. Pitchers don’t build up the arm strength like they used to. Not to mention they are throwing harder and putting more stress on their ligaments because of it. I’m not sure how they can prevent it.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dan wrote:</div>
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>poomunk wrote:</div>
I’d think the damage caused to his confidence for a young starter if you leave him out and guys start hitting on him would far outweigh the confidence gained if left in and (hope) he continues to do well.And it’s for this reason that I’m fine with Baldelli pulling his starter too soon this one time. Six shutout innings could be wiped away with one bad inning, and that’s the mental image/lack of confidence that will stick with the guy.
Otherwise it usually drives me nuts when managers (and Rocco’s by far not the only one) let the number “100” dictate when a starter is done. None of us know what the manager/pitching coach is hearing from the pitcher or have all the data available, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt in most cases. But when an inning ends with a pitcher at, say 96 pitches, you can almost guarantee he’s not going back out, and it’s obvious why.
What about when it’s 67? As I said earlier, I like Rocco, I think he’s done a lot of good things with the club, obviously. I’m just saying if I’m that pitcher or any other pitcher on this staff, it would be driving me crazy right now. Imagine being Taylor Rodgers and being pulled after getting two outs and then Rocco coming out and saying “hey bud, I’m taking you out for Trevor May” (another right handed pitcher).
He over manages his pitchers. Period.
you could argue that with Gardy too. there are analytics that the staff looks at in making all the pitching decisions. this is not 1999 and the complete game is a thing of the past. its all pitch counts and percentages. bullpen is 60% starting pitching is 40%. if you cant adapt, you will go away thinking about next year.
NBA has already figured out analytics and its all 3 point bombs and layups or good luck! Is the NFL next? I bet in the next 2 years, you will see percentages of runs to the left,right, sweeps, crackback, options and success rates all over MNF. This new generation is obsessed with numbers and the numbers tell a story.
Ill continue to tune that out and try to enjoy the ride. problem is, tech is running the world!
I’ll never understand the anti-analytics crowd. To quote Herm Edwards, “you play to win the game.” You can argue that consequences of this approach (shifting, bullpen usage, etc) make for a less interesting product if that’s your opinion, but if it didn’t work the entire league wouldn’t be doing it.
Baseball is simply a race to 27 outs. Making decisions on the margin to get you closer to 27 outs is all that managers, coaches, analytics assistants, etc are there to do within the confines of 9 innings. Runs are a necessary byproduct that, by definition, will happen at some point before the conclusion of the game. The real priority is making/not making outs.
When you take the human factor out of making decisions, you take eliminate any possible argument against said decisions. Makes for boring sports talk radio, and boring forums. Unless of course you argue that analytics is hurting the game.
At some point analytics might dilute the game to the point where you need to outwit the analytics.
Luckily, I have a good friend who is a pitching coordinator for a mlb team and got to talk to him last night about some of this. I made the point that to do his job you don’t even need to know the game. He chuckled and agreed but he did say that there are definitely intangible attributes that statistics cannot possibly account for. Basically it does about 90% of the work but to be the best, you still need to consider the intangibles.
I won’t disagree with that
Oh, and the balls are juiced. They are going out at the same rate in the minors as well because they are using the same balls. There is a different sound to this years baseball compared to years past when you bounce them on concrete.
I’m sure that in the next few months you’ll find some data that proves.
Nobody only throws a four seam fastball or only a two seam fastball
… except Smeltzer who only threw four seamers vs. the Brewers 
Again, only 3 pitches.
Whether Rocco is “overmanaging” (which he isn’t) or if it’s analytics and smart baseball (which it is) does it really matter? Twins have the best record in baseball. Hope he keeps doing whatever he’s doing now.
Twins have the best record in baseball.
Not after this series 
They’ll split….I hope the rays are for real! Would be nice to put the Big market babies to sleep come October.
Maybe they’ll finally build them a stadium if that happens. I know I am not a baseball guy and I said it before, but Tropicana is a dump.
Not after this series
This is how a curse is born. 
One game closer to the Parade.
Hitting the speaker kept the game a little tighter.
Keep an eye on this Rosario kid.
Keep an eye on this Rosario kid.
He sure can drive in the rib eyes.
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