True Fuel Question

CaptainMusky wrote:

January 30, 2017 at 9:57 pm#1670012
Many people don’t have access to non oxy fuel near them.

Non-ox fuel is not a necessity. They way guys worry and hand wring about a little ethanol, you’d swear the machines wouldn’t run at all on anything but non-ox. I know you guys will never believe this, but fuel system problems existed long before we had ethanol to “cause” them all.

For small 2 stroke equipment, sometimes I buy non-ox, sometimes I don’t. Whatever’s available, it doesn’t matter. I use synthetic 2 stroke oil in everything.

I mix the amount that I know I’ll go through within a few months. I put a piece of duct tape on the and write the fill date. 6 months later if for some reason it hasn’t been burned up (which is very rare for me), I dump whatever’s left in my truck, 4 wheeler, or the old Deere tractor that’ll burn anything and start over.

On equipment that tends to sit for long periods between uses, I always run the tank dry before storing.

Need fuel in a nifty leak proof little metal bottle? Buy a SIG aluminum fuel bottle.

24 bucks a gallon for gas. The end must surely be nigh. I wonder if this happened in Rome, right before the fall?

Grouse

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>CaptainMusky wrote:</div>
January 30, 2017 at 9:57 pm#1670012
Many people don’t have access to non oxy fuel near them.

Non-ox fuel is not a necessity. They way guys worry and hand wring about a little ethanol, you’d swear the machines wouldn’t run at all on anything but non-ox. I know you guys will never believe this, but fuel system problems existed long before we had ethanol to “cause” them all.

For small 2 stroke equipment, sometimes I buy non-ox, sometimes I don’t. Whatever’s available, it doesn’t matter. I use synthetic 2 stroke oil in everything.

I mix the amount that I know I’ll go through within a few months. I put a piece of duct tape on the and write the fill date. 6 months later if for some reason it hasn’t been burned up (which is very rare for me), I dump whatever’s left in my truck, 4 wheeler, or the old Deere tractor that’ll burn anything and start over.

On equipment that tends to sit for long periods between uses, I always run the tank dry before storing.

Need fuel in a nifty leak proof little metal bottle? Buy a SIG aluminum fuel bottle.

24 bucks a gallon for gas. The end must surely be nigh. I wonder if this happened in Rome, right before the fall?

Grouse

I feel so stupid now……..

I exclusively run TruFuel in my Tahoe. It’s never run better.

I have a bottle of 50:1 for sale that was purchased yesterday. I dont want my engine grenading!!!!!
But seriously, if my ion doesnt carry me the rest of the way through winter I’m just going to mix my old recipe again. I could pour it in the the TF bottle after I empty the contents in Ralph’s truck!!! Winning.

Ralph Wiggum wrote:

I exclusively run TruFuel in my Tahoe. It’s never run better.

It works great for starting campfires also, 1/2 a gallon and she takes right off !

Ralph Wiggum wrote:

I exclusively run TruFuel in my Tahoe. It’s never run better.

I suppose you run 40:1 to keep your pistons and rings in good shape

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Non-ox fuel is not a necessity. They way guys worry and hand wring about a little ethanol, you’d swear the machines wouldn’t run at all on anything but non-ox. I know you guys will never believe this, but fuel system problems existed long before we had ethanol to “cause” them all.

Grouse

I agree in principle, but one thing remains is that ethanol absorbs water. Water and 2 strokes especially don’t mix too well. Aside from this the engines we are talking about are not frequently used so if the fuel sits in the machine for extended periods of time that exacerbates the problem.
I’m not saying you are wrong, but it certainly isn’t a blanket “don’t worry about a little ethanol” either.
My buddy burned down his sled last year and I had major carb issues with an older auger a couple years ago, both were caused by ethanol indirectly because of the water absorption issue.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>TheFamousGrouse wrote:</div>
Non-ox fuel is not a necessity. They way guys worry and hand wring about a little ethanol, you’d swear the machines wouldn’t run at all on anything but non-ox. I know you guys will never believe this, but fuel system problems existed long before we had ethanol to “cause” them all.

Grouse

I agree in principle, but one thing remains is that ethanol absorbs water. Water and 2 strokes especially don’t mix too well. Aside from this the engines we are talking about are not frequently used so if the fuel sits in the machine for extended periods of time that exacerbates the problem.
I’m not saying you are wrong, but it certainly isn’t a blanket “don’t worry about a little ethanol” either.
My buddy burned down his sled last year and I had major carb issues with an older auger a couple years ago, both were caused by ethanol indirectly because of the water absorption issue.

the problem is once water is absorbed by the ethanol and it sits for any amount of time,it turns into ethanoic acid.
once it has turned into this acid it goes to town corroding any aluminum,manganese,zinc or any material with a combination of these metals.
the water can come from the fuel itself which does carry a bit of water by its nature, condensation in a fuel tank that is left less than full for any length of time,and many other ways of entry.

Grouses comments on fuel problems before ethanol were due primarily to lead settling out,lead fouling of the plugs,valves,ports,etc.
any fuel that sits for any length of time before and after ethanol will start deteriorating,freshness is the key.
auto gasoline today has a shelf life of around ninety days if stored properly.

my biggest gripe against ethanol in two strokes is that ethanol is a solvent and it will cause oil separation issues,period.
oil injected engines have a little better chance against this but I still do not recommend its use at all in two strokes.
then there is the problem with rubber/neoprene hoses breaking down and clogging up the fuel systems after several years of ethanol use.

there will be many saying that they dont have any problems using it,to those my response is this and I speak from thirty eight plus years experience of being a mechanic in the automotive,aviation,and marine fields,your day will come and it will be expensive when it does,you can only get lucky for so long.

I had a chance today to look at the fuel. Does this look right?

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look at eelpout guys picture on the first page of this thread and compare them to yours

Ralph Wiggum wrote:

I exclusively run TruFuel in my Tahoe. It’s never run better.

I hope you add Seafoam on top of that. Otherwise you’ll ruin your engine.

Grouse

We can all agree on a few things: keep your fuel fresh-how?Run your equipment more. How? Fish and hunt more!

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ralph Wiggum wrote:</div>
I exclusively run TruFuel in my Tahoe. It’s never run better.

I hope you add Seafoam on top of that. Otherwise you’ll ruin your engine.

Grouse

What? No comeback to the guy with 38 years experience dealing with ethanol? Cute comeback about Seafoam though…

Iowaboy1 wrote:

The problem is once water is absorbed by the ethanol and it sits for any amount of time,it turns into ethanoic acid.

I don’t mean to be jack ass, but I am a chemist by trade, and that’s simply not true. Ethanoic acid (aka acetic acid or vinegar) is not formed by a reaction of ethanol and water. If it was, your bottles of vodka (essentially 40% ethanol in water) would start smelling like vinegar after a few months. In reality, mixtures of ethanol and water are quite stable.

roosterrouster wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>TheFamousGrouse wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ralph Wiggum wrote:</div>
I exclusively run TruFuel in my Tahoe. It’s never run better.

I hope you add Seafoam on top of that. Otherwise you’ll ruin your engine.

Grouse

What? No comeback to the guy with 38 years experience dealing with ethanol? Cute comeback about Seafoam though…

sorry to get back in the game late RR lol!!
had to give a nephew a ride to work,the alcohol sensor in his cars gas tank failed causing the engine to flood out.

must of overpowered it with seafoam.

Ralph Wiggum wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>iowaboy1 wrote:</div>
The problem is once water is absorbed by the ethanol and it sits for any amount of time,it turns into ethanoic acid.

I don’t mean to be jack ass, but I am a chemist by trade, and that’s simply not true. Ethanoic acid (aka acetic acid or vinegar) is not formed by a reaction of ethanol and water. If it was, your bottles of vodka (essentially 40% ethanol in water) would start smelling like vinegar after a few months. In reality, mixtures of ethanol and water are quite stable.

Ralph Wiggum wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>iowaboy1 wrote:</div>
The problem is once water is absorbed by the ethanol and it sits for any amount of time,it turns into ethanoic acid.

I maybe mistaken on the name of the acid and beg forgiveness if I am wrong,but I do know for fact that an acid is created when this blend occurs and you have to figure in the other chemical components that are in gasoline that start reacting with it setting up a chain reaction,this is where the varnish smell comes from.

Ralph,if you could correct me on the name of the acid,I would appreciate it.
I do not intentionally try to mislead anyone and not afraid to admit it if I am wrong

Bring out the popcorn. Everyone one is an expert on ethanol, except the manufacturer’s who put warming label’s on stuff that shouldn’t be there cause ethanol is just such great stuff. Yawn.

basseyes wrote:

Bring out the popcorn. Everyone one is an expert on ethanol, except the manufacturer’s who put warming label’s on stuff that shouldn’t be there cause ethanol is just such great stuff. Yawn.

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Can a weigh in?….
DT

I’m not a guru on types of gasolines when it comes to the tech stuff but I use the highest octane rating I can find and the best two cycle oil I can find too, even if I had to drive across town to get it. I use only regular unleaded and highest octane and this year even considering 106 octane racing fuel because it burns cleaner and performance issues. I don’t want the motors to scream but just want them to run really well, maybe even 1/2 racing fuel and half non ethanol high octane regular gas. I know it may not be that important to some but over time I’ve found that I must be doing something right because my motors always start like their supposed to and run and perform good. Its not super important to get the oil and gas mix exactly right but the closer the better I’ve found out especially in chainsaws and weed whackers. My 25 Evie electric start turns over 4 too 6 times when cold and runs and idles nice, after its warmed to running temp I can’t get my finger off the start button quick enough and it starts within two turns of the flywheel. I do know the higher the octane rating the better every two stroke I own runs. Better fuel and oil performs better.

Tru Fuel 40:1 is all I’ve ran in my lazer mag since new.
Auger runs great each and every time.
No spill cans are great…THEY’RE GRRREAT!!!
I bet I’ve gone though 15 cans in 3-4 years.
I have much worse habits than buying overpriced fuel that makes my life and small engine better.

I have much worse habits than buying overpriced fuel that makes my life and small engine better.

Exactly! $5.00 Tungsten jigs. $4.00 beer at the bar…..etc

ozzyky wrote:

I have much worse habits than buying overpriced fuel that makes my life and small engine better.

Exactly! $5.00 Tungsten jigs. $4.00 beer at the bar…..etc

I concur,$50 in pull tabs.

How about 1lb propane tanks!? Figure out that cost vs a 20# or 100# tank!

mossydan wrote:

I’m not a guru on types of gasolines when it comes to the tech stuff but I use the highest octane rating I can find and the best two cycle oil I can find too, even if I had to drive across town to get it. I use only regular unleaded and highest octane and this year even considering 106 octane racing fuel because it burns cleaner and performance issues. I don’t want the motors to scream but just want them to run really well, maybe even 1/2 racing fuel and half non ethanol high octane regular gas. I know it may not be that important to some but over time I’ve found that I must be doing something right because my motors always start like their supposed to and run and perform good. Its not super important to get the oil and gas mix exactly right but the closer the better I’ve found out especially in chainsaws and weed whackers. My 25 Evie electric start turns over 4 too 6 times when cold and runs and idles nice, after its warmed to running temp I can’t get my finger off the start button quick enough and it starts within two turns of the flywheel. I do know the higher the octane rating the better every two stroke I own runs. Better fuel and oil performs better.

You might be falsely assigning an outcome to an event. Octane is not a guarantee that the fuel will be clean, or cleaner burning, or fresher. Higher octane is less volatile, more difficult to ignite. In most circumstances you only need to use as high of octane as required for an application for the engine to perform its best. Above that level you could be throwing away extra cash at the pump.

I finally got around to looking at the auger some more. I may have a transmission issue. I will let you guys know what I find.