Trespassers

A bit of a read, but was turkey hunting with my 11 year old this last weekend on my Mom and Dad’s 40 acre plot (he was hunting, I was decoy/gear hauler). We were walking into a heavily wooded spot along their creek on Sat afternoon when we encountered a couple of trespassers and their dog. They were not hunters and I’m still not clear what their intentions were. We were in full cammo and we saw them without them seeing us. Could see they had a small fire going. They wearing street clothes aside from boots. Had a lot of thoughts run through my head but ended up doing the right thing as I was with my young kid, and we slowly backed out of there. After heading back up to the house and discussing, my brother-in-law and I decided to walk out on an adjacent ridge which overlooks the spot from a safe distance to see what was up. We observed the two guys for a while but still couldn’t really tell what exactly they were up to. After a while my brother in law said “I think the one guy just put binoculars on us.” So my BIL pointed at him and then pointed towards the road as if to say “get out.” The guy basically started swerving his hips in a little dance to basically give us the finger. IE “hear I am what are you going to do about it.” Outside of a questionable confrontation we decided to let it go for now. We agreed that they were not equipped to spend a cold night in the woods so they’d probably leave before dark, and they did. I went down to investigate on Sunday morning and aside from a small ash pile, no garbage, beer cans, needles, etc. If they were junkies they were clean junkies. More than likely, they were just a couple young guys screwing around and I hope that’s all it was, they got the message and they won’t be back

My parents are elderly but still sticking it out and living on their land. It used to be posted but my Dad’s too old to do a lot of woods walking and most of the signs have faded or fallen, etc. This is why we chose to wait them out as I was clear they were not planning a long stay and the land wasn’t posted to the letter of the law. While I’m not sure it would’ve stopped them anyway, I’m going to post the obvious entry points this week and follow that up by doing the entire property while shroom hunting in a few weeks.

40 acre perimeter of steep ravines and woods plus a sign for each 10 acres in the interior. They will have my last name and and cell# on them but apparently just saying NO TRESSPASSING isn’t enough… you also need to state it’s against the law by writing the MN statute number on them. Then, the way I understand it, it’s still only illegal if you bust someone, tell them to leave and they don’t. But I guess it’s still the right thing to do. Will only keep honest people honest, though.

Makes me angry, scared my kid quite a bit, actually. When my BIL and I went to watch them on the ridge, my sister said he started crying because he thought they might be bad and we might confront them and get hurt. Not the hunting experience I wanted to show him. On the upside, I’ll get to explore the far wooded corners of the property that I don’t get to go to very often, I guess.

I would have a hard time not confronting them armed.

ThunderLund78 wrote:

but apparently just saying NO TRESSPASSING isn’t enough… you also need to state it’s against the law by writing the MN statute number on them. Then, the way I understand it, it’s still only illegal if you bust someone, tell them to leave and they don’t.

I haven’t heard about needing the statute on it. Mine just say “posted no trespassing” with name & phone number (image attached) and I’m pretty sure they meet the requirements when I researched it. I got them safetysign.com and they’re thick and they’ve held up really well on some wood backing. A lot of the ones I’ve seen in hardware stores are poop. This is the DNR overview: https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/trespass-law.html

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And here’s the actual law: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/97B.001

I think you did the right thing. Scouting the situation, staying calm, posting new signs, etc.

I am not a landowner and its likely I never will be, but I hunt on private land almost exclusively and I always make sure I have permission ahead of time, and I stay on the land I have permission to be on. Trespassing is not something I take lightly, and you never know when a disgruntled landowner is going to show up armed. Then the situation can really escalate. Its about respecting other people’s property.

If you catch them out there again, you might consider calling local law enforcement. Especially if they don’t feel any need to urgently leave.

suzuki wrote:

I would have a hard time not confronting them armed.

Not sure why you wouldn’t confront them. Especially once you got the bil and left the kid.

I dont think I could have left it alone. Would have brought the kid home and went back. Its your parents land not theirs. If they are A holes they will be back cause now they dont think you are gonna do anything.

Well, they could come back even if I did confront them because the land isn’t properly posted. The burden is on the property owner so starting there (on behalf of my elderly parents).

I’m getting the statute thing from a couple of people I know who have spoke to local game wardens and they said the air-tight thing to do is to write that statute on the sign as well. Apparently this has been used as defense in the past cases. IE It might not be their land but didn’t know it was against the law.

This is from the Brainerd Dispatch as written by the Cass Co. Sherriff:
“When posting your land, the statute requires that the signage: carry a general notice warning against trespass; display letters at least two inches high; state that Minnesota law prohibits trespassing on the property; and are posted in a conspicuous place and at intervals of 500 feet or less.

Nothing wrong with how you handled it. I probably would have chatted with them when my son was with, so he could see how to handle a similar situation in the future. Also, would hopefully leave them with some guilt from messing up a kids hunt. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, so even though they were in the wrong it could have been an honest mistake or some kids that didn’t know any better.

BigWerm wrote:

Nothing wrong with how you handled it. I probably would have chatted with them when my son was with, so he could see how to handle a similar situation in the future. Also, would hopefully leave them with some guilt from messing up a kids hunt. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, so even though they were in the wrong it could have been an honest mistake or some kids that didn’t know any better.

Bingo. Teaches the kid a strong lesson. And shows him not to be scared. Lots of trespassers will leave with a warning. Most don’t even have a clue what they are doing wrong. The new land I hunt and am watching over is all connected to state land. Trespassers are a weekly occurrence, but have to catch them red handed. Watching them and not saying anything shows them that you will continue to do the same. I totally understand not wanting to deal with confrontation and don’t blame you. But I couldn’t do it.

So much more detail that I didn’t type as it was getting long, but when we first discovered them it was through brush -could only see smoke and general movement and hear limited “foul” conversation. You just don’t know what you’re walking up on. From what I could tell, I’m not sure these guys had a conscious regarding a kids hunt. So I thought best to keep him safe, back-out, calm down and regroup. Trust me I’ve re-lived it over and over in my head and somewhat regret not confronting them, but they got out of there as soon as they knew they were being watched and I’m hoping that’s enough for them to realize that if they’re up to no good, it might not be a place that’s as hidden as it seems. Will get the property line up to snuff and keep an eye on things from here.

we’ve had people trespass…….go on our property at the cabin. when i’m there i do go talk to them but civilly…..unless there jackwads. i simply say i hope you are aware this is our property. we dont mind you using it but if we see garbage or damage we’ll not allow it anymore. except for a few that have cabins already on the lake that respects nothing…….. . there usually locals and are very nice!!!!!

besides being a Richard up there and not being up there all the time can usually be more trouble then its worth. we have pretty good results usually, except for the litter the, and we know who it comes from!!!!

Why didn’t you call the Sherrif and the Local Conservation Officer? It is their job to deal with these types of lawbreakers. Bring in the Popo!

Also though of that, but again, you have to be legally compliant against trespassers as a private property owner and my parents land just isn’t. Going to fix that for them first.

ThunderLund78 wrote:

From what I could tell, I’m not sure these guys had a conscious regarding a kids hunt. So I thought best to keep him safe, back-out, calm down and regroup.

I agree with your approach. There a many “teaching moments” in raising a child and walking up on a couple of unknown guys in a woods is not necessarily one of them. They could be armed, high on whatever, just plain nuts or a couple of nice guys fartin’ around. Taking a child into that situation is not a good idea imho.

Thanks rvvrrat, my thought process exactly. Then we figured the fact they saw us watching them on the overlook was enough to send the message without any escalating. I’ve confronted several trespassers over my life on that land, usually wayward hunters. While some were downright dumb, all conversations were cordial, even when both parties were armed. Did NOT get a sensible vibe with these dudes and surprising them in the middle of nowhere could’ve went badly. Hopefully it’s the last we see of them, will be better prepared next time.

That’s a tough situation you were in with a kid present.

You did the right thing and are doing the right thing.

Put a no trespassing by their “camp” and call the cops if they return.

Talk with the neighbors and get them involved and aware as well.

In today’s digital age there is no excuse for trespassing.

Almost every county has a GIS site that will overlay you position onto property maps and get you within feet of the actual border.

The local DNR officer give me his business card with his email, and said to send pics of each “No Trespassing” sign clearly showing where it was posted, so they have proof that the property is properly posted. They will create a file for the property and save the info there. Pics should be updated annually, which proves compliance, and shows that you maintain the signs and your property. It definitely can appear law enforcement are on the side of the lawbreakers at times, but like so many instances, attorneys dictate how laws are enforced.
Quite often, when properly posted, a warden can get idiot trespassers to confess to knowingly trespassing, once they confess to law enforcement, they can be charged – even if it’s the first occurrence. But attorneys choose to dismiss the case if the property is not proven to have been properly posted. More serious criminals are usually too wise to ever confess, but typically they will stay clear once they’ve been contacted by law enforcement.

You did the right thing. There’s a difference between confronting hunters who trespassing and potential tweakers. We get them both on our private land. Even found attempted meth labs. I confront hunters crossing over from public land. I would think twice about random guys not in hunting attire and being confrontational from the way you described. It’s not worth your life especially if you have a family.

MN must be have different laws than WI. As far as I know you have to know if you are legally on a property. The landowner does not have to have signs up. You cannot just go anywhere that is not posted.

ThunderLund78 wrote:

just saying NO TRESSPASSING isn’t enough…

Either being asked to leave by the property owner Or ignoring proper signs. Either is a trespass. There is no reason to confront anyone. Ask them to leave in the most kindly way possible. It still counts.

MX1825 wrote:

MN must be have different laws than WI. As far as I know you have to know if you are legally on a property. The landowner does not have to have signs up. You cannot just go anywhere that is not posted.

Correct

If your land isn’t posted in MN people can legally go on it, but if asked to leave they have to leave.

Dance would have sent me over the edge . While I agree a confrontation isn’t always the place, make sure these clowns don’t keep walking on ya either.

Two schools of thought….

1- If you confront them, record it so they can’t claim something that didn’t happen.

2- If you confront them, don’t record it so there is no proof on what happened.

And just remember, if delete a video off your phone, it is still there. Know your plan up front.

DT

Since when is confronting a trespassers some bad scary thing? Would you let 2 dudes have a fire in your back yard? A civil talk goes a long ass way lol. Probably a couple teens wandering the woods smoking some pot. Happens every day. Then if you think they are mocking you on your own land and you just do nothing is something I don’t understand. If your scared and intimidated call Johnny law. All the kid learned was trespassers are terrifying when that Probably wasn’t the case. Hands on his hips and hullabaloo around sounds like some dumbass fortnite dance. When we were young and dumb we would play in the woods all day and rarely would know property lines. Got barked at by a few guys and made sure to not go back to those spots.

There is no reason to confront anyone. Ask them to leave in the most kindly way possible. It still counts.
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That is confronting

Somebody explain me this –
The trespassing law is for “agricultural land” period.
Why would you need to post Non-Ag, hunting land for example.
Do you need to post your yard in the city?
Where is the delineation?

97B.001 TRESPASS.
Subdivision 1.Agricultural land definition. For purposes of this section, “agricultural land” means land:
(1) that is plowed or tilled;

(2) that has standing crops or crop residues;

(3) within a maintained fence for enclosing domestic livestock;

(4) that is planted native or introduced grassland or hay land; or

(5) that is planted to short rotation woody crops as defined in section 41B.048, subdivision 4.

1 thing you could do to keep tabs on it while you are not in the area is to get a trail cam that will send pics to you phone. I have a couple at my land and have gotten a few pictures of trespassers. 2 of then we were able to find out who they were and had the local Sherriff go talk with them as our land is clearly posted for no trespassing

That said, I have also had 1 camera get stolen….

rvvrrat wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>ThunderLund78 wrote:</div>
From what I could tell, I’m not sure these guys had a conscious regarding a kids hunt. So I thought best to keep him safe, back-out, calm down and regroup.

I agree with your approach. There a many “teaching moments” in raising a child and walking up on a couple of unknown guys in a woods is not necessarily one of them. They could be armed, high on whatever, just plain nuts or a couple of nice guys fartin’ around. Taking a child into that situation is not a good idea imho.

100% agree with this. It’s not worth you life to act all tough and end up hurt or dead over someone trespassing on your land. Not long ago a well know past member here had 2 of his brother in laws shot when they confronted 2 teen trespassers at a vacant home they owned. One ended up dead and the other shot. I never did hear if the 2nd guy died or not. They had set up a trail camera in the home and when they realized someone was there the went to confront them. You never know who you’re dealing with these days. Lots of crazy people in this world.

You should have confronted them and actually told them to stay off your land. Whether posted or not if they come back it is a gross misdemeanor according to our CO. I had a problem with a neighbor who thought my agricultural land was ok for him to use as his own. I left no doubt in his mind what my feelings were of him disregarding the trespass law! Told the CO about it after the fact. He said once he was warned if he does it again it is a gross misdemeanor and he would lose his hunting rights for 3 yrs. Normally wouldn’t bother with a neighbor, but this guy has no regard for safety or etiquette.