Angler’s Choice, MN, Upper Mississippi, WI

U.S. Angler’s Choice

Angler’s Choice is proud to announce Minnesota, Upper Mississippi and Wisconsin divisions for 2006!

Angler’s Choice is the Largest most Lucrative Team Trail in the United States!

Angler’s Choice Teams within the North Region will be fishing for four fully rigged BassCat Boats at the North Region Tournament of Champions.
Classic Location Table Rock Lake, MO.

Teams fishing all seven events within a division or the Choice division (Open) and meeting the qualifying criteria will be eligible to fish any or all of the four Tournament of Champion events held across the country! That’s right multiple championships for fishing one trail!

Angler’s Choice members will receive BassWestUSA magazine. Angler’s Choice teams will be highlighted within the Angler’s Choice section of the magazine.

For this plus much more information visit http://www.usanglerschoice.net

For yearend money earned in a 35 boat average trail see http://www.actournaments.com/pts2005si.htm

For single event money earned see http://www.usanglerschoice.net/asp%20results/1022.asp?Selectvalue=3164

For 2005 Championship earnings see http://www.actournaments.com/2005classicresults.htm

Dave,

Is this a %age payout based on # of boats or is it top 5 type of deal?

Just curious….

Thanks

Slop,

The payback is one paid position for every six boats.

example: 18 boats = 3 paid positions.

Daves not around a PC….

This actually has caught my eye . I wonder what kind of turnout there might be?

I’m guessing they won’t announce the location of the Northern championship until after all the regular events have been fished, right?

Northern Regionals will be at Table Rock…great place..

Angler’s Choice tells you prior to seasons start where the Classic will be. In 2006 it will be Table Rock Lake MO.

d-nort, we applied for 40 boat permits for our first year and have been getting great response for all divisions.

The Championship has already been announced:Table Rock Lake

Oct.18-21 for region 3 and all Pro Team Championships have been announced for anglers that intend on trying to fish multiple Championships.

Two more questions-

To qualify for the championship each team MUST fish all 7 tournaments?

Would I have to fish with the same partner all season to qualify?

What’s up dhnitro?! If I go back down to Table Rock you’ll have to show me your drop-shotting secrets from when you and I were down at Beaver Lake .

D-Nort…I fish Table Rock in Sept and found alot of fish..Beaver Lake is better..But if you go let me know I have some spots…
Good luck and the Anglers Choice maybe something to look at..
Doug

Championship qualification is based on points and you must fish a minimum of five(5) events to be eligible. You must fish seven (7) events and meet the qualifying criteria to fish any or all of four (4) Championships.

Each team may use two alternates per year and is allowed to fish alone once for region 3.

Rule below

16. CHAMPIONSHIP POINTS: Qualifying will be based on a points and pound format beginning with 100 points for first place and descending down by one 1) point per place. In each event “First Place” will receive 100 points plus their weight, e.g., 1st Place = 100 points + 20.50 lbs. = 120.50 points, 2nd Place = 99 points + 20.00 lbs. = 119 points. This procedure will be followed for all teams weighing fish. The lowest team having weight will be the last points given based on the point’s structure. All remaining teams that fished but did not weigh fish will receive one-half (½) of the next possible points based off the point structure. Example: The last team weighing fish in a 45-boat field ended at 40th place with 2.0 lbs. They would receive 60 points + 2.0 lbs = 62 points. The remaining 5 teams without weight would receive 29.5 points each (59/2 = 29.5). No points shall be awarded to contestants that pay but do not fish.

17. CHAMPIONSHIP QUALIFYING: You must fish a minimum of 5 regularly scheduled team tournaments during the year to qualify for a championship berth based on points system. You must fish a minimum of 6 regularly scheduled events to qualify for a championship berth based on the “Wild Card” system. Championship qualifiers will be determined after the last regularly scheduled tournament in each division. Angler’s Choice reserves the right to allow alternate teams to participate in regional championships to ensure full fields. To qualify for a “Wild Card” berth teams must fish 6 of 7 qualifying events. “Wild Card” qualifying shall be determined by their finishing position in the last tournament of the year and after points qualifiers have been removed.

20 or less boat average will qualify 8 teams plus 2 wild cards.

21 – 25 boat average will qualify 12 teams plus 5 wild cards.

26 – 30 boat average will qualify 16 teams plus 5 wild cards.

31 – 40 boat average will qualify 18 teams plus 6 wild cards.

41 – 50 boat average will qualify 20 teams plus 7 wild cards.

51 – 60 boat average will qualify 22 teams plus 8 wild cards.

61 – 70 boat average will qualify 24 teams plus 9 wild cards.

71 – 80 boat average will qualify 26 teams plus 10 wild cards.

80 and above boat average will qualify 40% of average plus 14 wild cards

is this trail around the LaCrosse area?

DanW, we will fish pools 4-8. Two events will be 6-7-8.
Here is a link to the schedule for the Upper Mississippi River Division http://www.usanglerschoice.net/newstuff/schedule.asp?Selectvalue=320

Dave, I think the question about payout is what is the percentage at the ramp. I know most are 85% with the exception of Charity events which are typically 50 – 75 % return. So, Whats your payout?

Hey Ken, You are an experienced Tournament Director, What can you offer to this subject.
jc

Jeremy if you don’t mind I will answer this question for Dave. First let me say this, payback misrepresentation is becoming a real issue in tournaments. Here are just a couple of ploys used by some less reputable trails. Do not be fooled by these ploys!

1. Deduction and non-inclusion of boats into payback. (There are trails out there that actually do not count boats in the payback. They claim they are staff and deduct 100% of their entry from the structure) example: 30 boats fish an event but 3 are determined to be “Staff Boats” thus the organization pays back on 27. At a $100 entry fee this is $300 taken from the top without ever starting the event. Anglers Choice does not do this!

2. Adding draw prizes to payback percentage is yet another ploy used. They payback 65% but add draw prizes to the percentage. Anglers Choice does not do this.

The list is long but I will stop here for now. Anglers Choice pays 70% at the ramp. ALL BOATS COUNTED AND NO DRAW PRIZES COUNTED.

We feel it is our obligation to be straight forward with the angler and those being deceptive will soon be “called out”. I encourage everyone to take the time to put a pencil to what you are fishing. It’s simple and only takes a second. Add all place money together and get total. Add all entries paid and get a total. Then divide the places paid total by the entries totaled. You may be surprised.

$700 paid back divided by $1000 paid entries = 70%

I am not pointing out any one circuit but the issue needs to be brought to the forefront. Put a pencil to it!!

We award 4 fully rigged BassCat boats at our classic and 100% paid back entry (optional only entry fee)

What’s Team Supreme’s payback in cash at the ramp?

Sorry Brian but I am not 100% sure, I just did the math using Rick’s formula on 2 tournaments and it workd out to 84%
Rick is correct that there are tournaments out there that payback percentages are misleading but the prizes should be counted in somewhere I would think unless they are junk. When sponsors pony up St Croix or Falcon Rods and you win, you are pumped. The misc tackle packs keep it interesting and the bonus Cash is more of tourney lifes candy.
Any way, I will run the numbers a couple more times to be sure but 70% is kind of a kick in the nuts unless you fish and cash a check in the big show. I wish it were like nutrition information and that there was a manditory listing on every entry form…. -grin-
Thanks for the info and not trying to hide behind the numbers.
jc

I just pulled a random event from Team Supreme’s website (6/5/2005 North Star). I am basing this on a $180.00 entry including big bass (not sure). I even included the draw prize sticker, which I believe is purchase necessary to win (not sure). I show a 72% payback. Maybe I have the entry wrong? If it is correct the paybacks are about the same…. The draw stickers make up the 2% difference and I guess we could pay back an additional 2 dollars on the hundred if we also sell stickers. How’s your nut’s

1st $1,000.00

2nd $779.10

3rd $519.40

4th $160.00

BB $336.00

2BB $144.00

Sticker $150.00

Patch $50.00

Total $3138.50

Total entries received 24×180=$4,320.00

$3,138.50 divided by $4,320.00 = 72%

The data used above available on Team Supreme website.

I want to stress that there are no trails that I know of that offer large classics and payback 80% or 85% unless the money comes from somewhere else. There are just too many cost involved in operation and prize expenses. Most angler’s understand this and a straight forward response is the approach we use.

Well, well let the games begin!!! 1st thing 160.00 entry 2nd 20.00 big bass 100% payback 150.00 sticker winner and draw winner 50.00 patch winner 1 in 5 payout!! never ever do we play a game with the STAFF boats they receive a discount that does not allow for pay out. If you want to take shots, take them, with the correct information!! Our sponsors will be amused that their product is worthless!! Rick, interesting use of Team Supreme (chance) think not!! Let the fishermen decide talk is really CHEAP!!!

Here is my take. I agree you need to put pen to things as there is no standard to how to calculate payback and while we are on this topic watch out for the losely used promise of guaranteed payout for 1st place. This can mean a variety of things. There is normally a great deal of fine print that goes with it.

As for payout I think it is dis-honest to include anything that is optional like Big-Bass, Option Pots, Raffles, sticker prizes, etc.

If you include this then there is a different payout for you depending on what pots you are in. If this is all thrown in the equation then are you realy getting 90% if you aren’t in everything?

I did the math for Team Supreme Savanna division and I think they are about the same as everyone else and it came out to 69.68%

47 teams X $110 entry = $5170

total payout (excluding BB, sticker, etc) $3602.50

3602.50/5170= 69.68%

This is pretty much inline with everyone else that is considered a regional or national trail as some portion is rolled over to a regional or national event for boats and such. You will find a few local events that don’t have a end of the year event that will pay 85% or more at the ramp but this is because nothing is held back and rolled over.

I also think it is interesting to look at end of the year payout. I think this should include raffle prizes that maybe given out as long as everyone is in the draw, not one that you buy into. For example, in the ABA there is a good deal of stuff given away to those at the National via a draw. Anyone who worked hard enough and attended the National is eligible and it isn’t something you buy tickets for.

If you look at the end of the year numbers this can really set apart the good from the bad. While the ABA is at 68% at the ramp like most everyone else, the end of the year payout including just entry fees and excluding side pots and such was 135%! That was the best I’ve seen from any trail and something we are proud of.

With that said, you’ll have to make up your own mind if it means something to you if you don’t attend the national. I think JC brought this up. I don’t really agree with that becasue if your goal isn’t to attend the championship why are you fishing a circuit that has one with part of your entry going toward it. If you feel that you don’t really get it back because you don’t attend then you should just fish local jackpot tournaments.

Other directors do you agree with my position?

BTW my data for TS came from 9/25/2005 at Savanna. I should include that so you can check my math.

Nevin,

First let me say there is no game being played here. The post was to inform those who do not know how to figure a cash payback the correct way to do so. Jeremy was having trouble with yours so I helped. This should not upset anyone! Thank you for verifying the numbers I used.

You were never mentioned as one who was deceptive with paybacks as I am sure you would never tell the angler your cash payback was higher than seen above. All trails have prizes that are awarded at each event but they are not figured into a cash payback and I’m sure you agree. Cash payback is money returned on entry and we told ours with no issue.

OK,
First and foremost it seems like you are taking some stance against Team Supreme, It may be my affiliation with them under any case the accusations are unwarranted. Team Supreme has been a pillar in the community for many years and continues to do so. They offer thousands of dollars and sponsor multiple events for local charities and anglers alike. This type of value add goes above and beyond any and all requirements and is done for our members, our communities and for our environment.
Its seems ironic that you feel threatened and then go after what I assume is, whom you feel most threatened by. Bottom line is the Patch, the Sticker Drawing, and the Bonus money are all paid back to the anglers in the form of cash.
While I feel no need to try and defend them I will say that it is clear that a minimum of 75% cash at the ramp is accurate. These programs are instilled to benefit the majority of fishermen and if the fishermen wish it to be different than I am confident that Team Supreme will make changes. For myself, if you are out of the money and have a shot at your entry fee back as part of the payout then it make since to me. Looking at the standards for each tournament the drawings are always a part of your investment. Wining a tournament and getting 2 rods for the winning teams is worth a couple hundred dollars which is supplemented by Team Supreme. The giveaway Rods in drawings, the reels, the tackle are all supplemented by Team Supreme. The charity events, The 100% payouts on the Open tourneys are all supplemented by Team Supreme. This is why they are so successful.
If Anglers Choice and the ABA wish to be successful in the upper Mississippi River arena I suggest taking a proactive approach to recruiting fishermen and let your tournaments speak for themselves.

All this bickering. From an anglers point of view I see it like this. I am going to fish the circuit that is going to draw the most boats. There are tournaments every weekend and sometimes multiple on the same pools or lake. Whats the difference if one pays 70% and the other is 80% especially if one has many more boats than the other. I would fish the more competitive one with the most entries and in turn the most spots are being paid back as well as dollars.
Ken- As far as fishing a tournament trail with a championship, you said a guy shouldn’t really do it unless they plan to attend the championship to reap the benefits of all the money fowarded to it. I agree, but I am also not going to the championship I qualified for last year. Due to the work I do, its a bad time. I could get around it but I am also frustrated that its so far away. And the drift I get is that the championship for that particular circuit will always be in that region. I’m always up for a challenge but with the timing and the drive I’m not going to gamble.

J.C, I don’t feel there is any stance against any one, I put this post up to promote U.S. Anglers Choice tournaments.
You asked for % pay out and input from another tournament director and he gave you input.
Go back and look at the number you first # thru out 84%,seemed a little high? I wrote the checks for two years in the Team Supreme Divisions Rich I ran. As I sayed this post was to promote the tournaments I now run, I hope Team Supreme does well just as when Rich and I ran the two divisions for them.
As for this all going out on public forum you have my phone #, heck everyone has easy access to it.
You can not make anyone look like a bad guy here, numbers are numbers.
Every time I post any thing since I left Team Supreme it seems you get involed and it becomes negitive.
I just want to promote the tournaments I now run and put Team Supreme behind me. I have always tryed to promote fun in tournaments and a negitive side that is brought to a simple announcment is no fun.

Jeremy,

I have not taken a stance against anyone. Read the complete thread. All that I did was answer questions. I included the sticker and patch in my 72% calculation. I never dreamed the posting of the actual cash payout would cause this hostility and I do apologize. It is a competitive payout so I do not see the issue.

If the basis for your decision to fish a circuit is based on payback % at the “ramp”, then I would say the Silverado Pro/Am is probably the best deal out there. They pay back 100% of entry fees on the pro side at every tournament. Then, the top 10 pros after all four tournaments fish a 1 day tournament, with the winner getting a fully rigged Ranger. The Am payout is slightly less than 100% due to a small amount being set aside for a $5K payout in the championship event.

Again, based on payback %, it’s the best deal out there. I’m not fishing this circuit this year, but I did last year and there were no surprises. They paid out just like they advertised.

Upper Mississippi River Division
Schedule 2006
April 23 pools 4-5-5a
May 7 pools 6-7-8
May 21 pools 5A-6-7
June 4 pools 4-5-5a
June 18 pools 6-7-8
July 23 pools 5A-6-7
Aug. 20 pools 5-5a-6

Glacier Lake Division
June 10 Washinton/Stella
June 11 Clearwater
July 15 Green (Spicier)
July 16 Koronis
Aug 12 Mitona
Aug 13 Ida
Aug 27 Minnewaska

Division Web Site http://www.MNAnglersChoice.com
National Web Site http://www.USAnglersChoice.net

I just don’t undertand why there are any restrictions both in team supreme and anglers choice on one team member fishing alone when the other can’t make it under any circumstances or any number of times. Other national organizations in our area allow it. I’ve read both rules and the if ands and buts but still can’t find a single honest reason to have any restriction on this at all. In both cases I already know of schedule conflicts and can be assured that my back injury somewhere in the season will keep me out of one or more, my wife is basically on call and will most likely not be ableto make one or more and so I’m supposed to tell my son or wife,(my partners) who are both capable of fishing alone on the river they have to fish with a complete stranger. I’ve heard all defenses of these rules, and was a tournamet director for three years in walleye tournies and would need more fingers and thumbs to count the number of times this kind of rule would have ended and ruined team’s seasons had the organization I ran the tourneys for had this rule. It all seems logical and fine except the 10+ I’m counting happened the day before or the morning of the tourney.. so the alternates situation was mute unless they wanted to pick a partner out of the strangers in the crowd. I read team surpreme’s observer clause but I also read the last sentence that said if an observer can’t be found the angler will not fish. To make it even worse in some of the other regions in Anglers choice it okay to fish alone 3 out of the seven tournaments amd in our region only once?????? I really want to fish both of these series so if I’m missing something here either organization is more than welcome to set me straight.. but how can I/we and probably more teams than you realize invest the time and money when this type of rule can make it all a waste of time and money? Not to even mention the problems it would cause with sponsors. I guess its alright if qualifying for the regionals and nationals isn’t your goal. But why would you fish in these series if it wasn’t your goal.

Your e mail was forwardwd to me Larwence and I will give you a call.

Dave I appreciate the follow up phone call.