Tilt/trim rough going down

So this just started this season. While lowering my motor it hops uncontrollably until it reaches the second stage. Then it’s perfectly smooth. It’s also perfectly smooth all the way up.

It’s obviously some kind of lubrication problem but I just lubricated the zerks in that area and do so every year. Am I missing something?

I also started spraying penetrating lube at every joint I could find but no luck.

Could it be in the cylinder? Maybe air in the hydraulic system? I have heard the hydraulic pump cavitate before, but rarely.

It’s a 2002 150 Johnson.

Any signs of an oil leak from the motor, or fittings? Could it (the trim motor) be low on oil?

Definitely no oil leaks.

It just seems as though it is sticking, like something isn’t lubricated.

probably a dumb question,but did you hit anything with the motor that could of tweaked the brackets??
if so,that could be putting a strain on it going one way if its binding in that direction.
have seen that before on my own motor,long story for another day !

I didn’t hit anything and I don’t recall anything that could’ve weakened the brackets. Possible though. I do run some pretty rough seas out on superior.

I can say everything looks pretty normal. I don’t see any signs of anything being tweaked.

I’ll take some pics later tonight. Maybe post a video too.

biggill wrote:

Maybe air in the hydraulic system

This was my first thought based on same problem with one of my old motors. Try to look up bleeding procedures for that motor. Typically cracking the bleeder screw open. Just cant remember if the motor needs to trimmed full up or full down?

-J.

Thanks Jon. Glad to hear some people with the same symptoms offer their solutions.

I’ll definitely try that too.

The only reason it could possibly bounce is if there’s some kind of play in the linkage. That could be just clearances in the linkage hinges or an air pocket in the cylinder. That’s my theory anyway.

I once had a wake drop my lower unit straight down onto a boulder on Mille Lacs. Since that time it has been really tough going down that I now need to have the motor in gear if in the water or putting weight on the lower unit out of the water while pressing the down button to get it to go completely down. From the research I’ve done and the mechanic I’ve talked to it sounds like it could be a blown seal inside of the trim unit itself. I have just let it go for the past few years as it doesn’t bother me too much. I do like Iowaboys suggestion about the mounts tweaked and will look into that.

First thing you should check is the oil levels and top-off/bleed the system as your oil level should be at its lowest when the motor is trimmed fully up. With a low oil level that would cause the pump to suck in air the first few moments it’s running.

This subject still smarts a little for me. I just had to replace my tilt/trim assembly on my Yamaha kicker. $1,100 later it works again. Good luck to you and hope it is a much easier fix.

Quick update. I’ve done very little with this since I’ve posted this.

I checked the oil level and found it is less than full. Not sure how low but I’m going to buy some oil and fill it up. The manual didn’t say anything about how to purge the air out so I’ll have to do a little google/YouTube research on how to do that.

Here’s what I did notice. When lowering the motor, if I put my hand on the lower unit and put about 5 lbs of upward force on it, it goes down silky smooth. I’m still trying to figure out what that may mean.

Biggill, be sure to check what kind of fluid to use. I’m pretty sure it’s just transmission fluid, but definitely double check.

The make fluid labeled for power trim units. Im just going to go with that.

another thought biggill,swap the relays on your tilt trim,one relay may be chattering causing the hopping issue as the motor is going from off to on again faster than you can hear it.

a weak relay may not be getting all of the voltage required to the motor,with you ‘assisting’ it,it may not take need all of its voltage to get through the tougher part of its stage,hope that makes sense.

Makes sense. Thanks again for the input.

Might get some oil tomorrow and see if that solves my problem. The more I think about it the more I remember hearing the motor cavitate in years past, even since I first bought it. I’m really hoping it’s the fluid level.

Any update? No news is good news?

No news is bad news. It also means I haven’t had the boat in the water.

Spoke to someone st Rapid Marine and said they just had someone in with the same symptoms and found the cylinder was badly scored.

Well, if that were the issue then I’d expect to see some kind of leak down. Not the case. She doesn’t drop at all over several days.

I disconnected the cylinder from the motor and operated the cylinder and everything sounded and felt fine. I lifted the motor up and down by hand and it felt fine.

The alignment thing seems to be a viable cause. Haven’t checked that yet.

And I did fill the reservoir and it was basically already full. Once again, no leaks.

Hmmmmm. Best of luck my friend. When you do find the culprit, be sure to let us enquiring minds know.

Found this. Exactly my symptoms. Exactly.

Will report back shortly.

Ok. Odd thing happened.

I did the above procedure several times with no improvement. The odd thing was the motor always stopped dead at the top of the stroke. As in the pump motor actually quit. On the video above the pump motor would keep running but bog down. All of a sudden mine now works like the one above. The motor lifts higher and now and the pump motor bogs and keeps running at the top of the stroke.

I’m now finding on other forums that a bad battery or bad battery connection is a common problem.

@iowaboy1 Where exactly is the relay located? This really supports your idea.

if I remember right it depends on the model of your shift/throttle control.
some relays are mounted in the motor area on or near the ignition module.
others I have seen are part of the wiring harness near where the main plug in is to your motor.

send me the model number of your motor and I will look up a schematic for you.
I will also need your controller model.

Never mind. I found the relays. It has 2. They were located strapped to the intake. I swapped them around and found no difference.

I’m trying to figure out if this coincides with buying a new starting battery. I upgraded to a cabelas group 31 agm battery.

I really think it has something to do with what just happened regarding the top of the stroke. I’m going to repeat the above process a few times now that I know it’s reaching the top of the stroke. After the tornadoes pass anyway.

stay safe first off ! dang tornadoes anyway !

double and triple check your connections,especially the grounds,not talking about just the clamps or rings either,take a close look at where the terminals are crimped to the wires.
many times I have seen where the crimp has either worked loose over time,or they get corroded,when you disturb them they will lose contact.

I messed around with the wires and the plugs while lowering and raising the motor. No change.

Although, inside each of the plugs I found 2 cycle oil. I tried cleaning this out quickly to no avail.

Any idea why my tilt motor would shut off near the top of the stroke? I’m thinking low oil switch but not sure it would actually have one. All I know is it doesn’t do it now.

my best guess is if the motor is quitting at the top of the stroke instead of running in bypass,(a valve should open and dump pressure back into the reservoir)
the bypass valve is sticking shut not allowing bypass and the motor stalls.

or
the motor is just that weak and quitting on you.
an electrical problem exists somewhere in the system,time for a load test with a voltmeter and amp probe.

sounds like time for a quick trip the dealership to have it tested.
let us know what you find out,sorry I cant be of much more help without being there.

Update.

I’ve made a little progress lately. I found several other posts in other forums on this exact issue. Seems to be a very common issue with Johnson/evinrude motors. Seems like many never find a solution.

I found one easy suggestion to lower the motor onto a piece of wood. Open the manual release screw. Press the up button for 5 seconds. Press the down button for 5 seconds and repeat 5 times.

Well, my motor seems to lower without the violent jerking it was doing. It will still jerk a little when it gets down near the trim level and it creaks some most of the way down. It is quite a bit better. I really suspect there’s air in the system somewhere.

I did read a post saying if air got into the cylinder it would be nearly impossible to remove all of it without disassembling it.

There’s more work to be done so I’ll post my progress. I really want to get this fixed completely.

Another possible solution I found was that someone suggested that the o-rings could be dried out if they were exposed to air in the system.

Based on what I am seeing, I think a slip-stick condition is happening. I work at a company that our vital component is hydraulic seals and I see this happen in some situations. It’s difficult to understand why this happens but it does. I would like to replace the main tilt piston o-rings and see if that solves the problem. With any luck, we’ll have the o-ring at work.

A follow up on this that I think @iowaboy1 would appreciate.

Last summer after taking my boat out of the water and trying to tilt up the motor for trailering, the pump motor quit completely. Obviously I replaced it and this symptom in this thread was solved.

Turns out you were right on the money. It just took a couple years for the motor to fail completely.

Iowaboy1 wrote:

the motor is just that weak and quitting on you.

I replaced it with a cheap aftermarket motor and there is some slight chattering as it’s lowering but not even close to what it was before. The motor is noticeably louder too. I assume because it was a cheap replacement from Amazon. So far so good though.

Thanks Sheldon.

Hooray !! you found it ! thanks for the follow up even if it is four years later !!
You are welcome, Glad what little I could offer without being there helped you!