They're getting them out at xxxxx

I want to tell everyone here a story, this is a story about people keeping too many fish and then complaining that fishing isn’t as good as it used to be.

I went down to SE minnesota this weekend to see some friends and maybe even get some fishing in. I ended up fishing all day Saturday, near Wabasha. My fishing partner ‘has been killing the sunnies’ in this one spot, so we headed there first.

As we get there, there’s already a half dozen people fishing, and another dozen or so would end up joining us. Now, this section of backwaters is pretty secluded, but very small. Everyone was fishing in maybe a 1/4 acre space, because the water is like 3 feet deep with a tiny little section that’s 4-5 feet deep. We caught a few nice sunnies and quite a few perch, but the fishing was ‘notably slower’ than it had been the last few days.

Why was it slower I asked myself? My fishing partner claims it has something to do with the weather. This is a popular theory.

Perhaps there’s another cause? I thought about it for awhile and then a light bulb went off in my head. Could it be that the same dozen people have been here for the last week keeping a limit of 9″ sunnies every single night? And that those people told a few of there friends and now there’s 20 people fishing an area not much bigger than my living room? NOPE.

Fishing isn’t as good as it used to be when we were kids, they say. It must be all these young kids fault. You know, those kids that actually just fish for fun and aren’t keeping a limit of fish 4 or 5 times a week. Seriously, if there are any DNR wardens that read these forums, do a freezer check of anyone that lives in SE MN who has a fishing license and is older than 50, I think you’ll find some people to fine*.

“Ice won’t be here much longer, gotta get em while we can”, “There’s so many fish in the river I could keep a triple limit every single day and not have an effect on anything”, etc, etc, etc.

What’s wrong with keeping a limit of 7-8″ sunnies? Is it necessary to keep every big sunny you catch? There was one guy out there that got visibly upset that I threw a ~13″ perch back. Visibly and vocally upset that I would do such a thing.

End rant, happy Monday.

*I know there are some users on here who fit this description who DO NOT in fact break the possession laws and are good stewards of the outdoors, I thank those people and wish there were more like them.

Stings to see it happen but totally normal. Nothing can stop it. I’ve seen so many lakes fished down in my life it’s impossible to keep track. If its not winter ice, its exploiting the spawn. Bluegills near people hardly stand a chance.

There’s an incredibly small (4-8 acre) metro lake I fish with tons of 9″+ gills. The lake is tucked back in trees and I tend to park my truck quite a ways from them and walk in. In all the years I have fished a particular lake, I have seen one other person fishing it until this year.

I have always had gangbuster days catching one after another and not keeping a single one. Early season this year was the same…until I started seeing other people fishing it. Now, I am lucky to pull in 6-7″ gills in any decent quantity. I have seen the same guy, on two occasions, take a full bucket of fish from that tiny lake.

People don’t realize how susceptible fish populations can be in such small bodies of water. Now, you were fishing the backwaters, but gills don’t usually roam far.

The people that do that to a lake are selfish hogs and cowards. They know they are taking away from others and just assume if they dont some other pig will.
Nasty side of human nature.

Obviously it’s the dnr and netting that caused it…. Wait wrong thread.

Phil, you’re exactly right and this issue of Freezer Fillers trawling out our lakes is, I think, the biggest problem in MN sport fishing today.

suzuki wrote:

Stings to see it happen but totally normal. Nothing can stop it. I’ve seen so many lakes fished down in my life it’s impossible to keep track. If its not winter ice, its exploiting the spawn. Bluegills near people hardly stand a chance.

Actually, this problem has already been addressed and if not solved, at least the situation has been improved.

We need to go to a logging system where all fish kept have to be logged on the back of the license in ink as soon as the angler is off the water. If you keep a limit of sunfish on Saturday, you have to log them. If you keep another limit on Sunday, you have to log them. If you get caught off the water without all killed fish being logged, it’s an automatic fine and loss of license.

So if a CO checks a license and sees limit of sunfish logged on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday he now has that currently-missing piece of information to follow up and ask about a possible possession limit violation. If the license/log indicates that the angler could be a gross violator, then a search warrant can quickly be obtained.

We could crack down on Fish Pigs by 90% or more with this system. It’s no different than deer hunting where each hunter gets a tag and must tag any deer in possession. It would take 2 minutes of time every time you kept fish to fill out the log, but he info it provides to the CO would be priceless.

Grouse

This type of over harvesting is obviously common. In fact take a look at all the people here on IDO that support using fish as currency. Like I said there’s nothing wrong with giving fish to the elderly in fact that’s a noble gesture. But, IMO giving fish away just so you can be a hero to everyone you know or so you can keep a limit everyday is just wrong. If people have the physical ability to catch there own fish then that’s what they should do.

https://www.in-depthoutdoors.com/community/forums/topic/fish-fillet-currency/page/2/

I dont think the two topics are related. Except in the rare instance a poacher over harvest’s so he can give fish away. But I doubt the simple poacher is motivated by anything other than his own warped self interest. Two weeks ago I kept under my limit of gills and gave half to my friend. So what. I havent kept any more since or a while before. Relating poachers to gifters is insane.
Moderation used to be a concept understood by all and practiced by most.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Fish log stuff

I love this idea. I think the DNR in general could benefit a lot by ‘going digital’, this is one of those places.

For one, make all licenses digital. Tie the DNR license number to a driver’s license number(or something) and store that info in a database. Then give the warden’s access to the database through a mobile app or something and have them just scan your driver’s license(or lookup your name/address) when they stop you on the water. No more, “oh I forgot my license at the cabin”.

Then for Grouse’s idea, allow people to manually log, or ideally DIGITALLY log the fish they kept, make it a requirement. Having the fish logged into a database would give the DNR so much data on how many fish are being kept/caught in bodies of water throughout the state, they might even learn something! Sure, those surveys they do every couple years on most lakes are helpful, but what if you made people log the number(and size?!) of every walleye/crappie/sunny/northern kept on MN waters. People don’t want to take the time to do so? Tough luck, here’s a fine. Hell, put a tablet in every shop that sells fishing licenses for people who don’t have phones/computers.

404 ERROR wrote:

There’s an incredibly small (4-8 acre) metro lake I fish with tons of 9″+ gills. The lake is tucked back in trees and I tend to park my truck quite a ways from them and walk in. In all the years I have fished a particular lake, I have seen one other person fishing it until this year.

I have always had gangbuster days catching one after another and not keeping a single one. Early season this year was the same…until I started seeing other people fishing it. Now, I am lucky to pull in 6-7″ gills in any decent quantity. I have seen the same guy, on two occasions, take a full bucket of fish from that tiny lake.

People don’t realize how susceptible fish populations can be in such small bodies of water. Now, you were fishing the backwaters, but gills don’t usually roam far.

Agreed. Small lakes are especially susceptible, but I think the effect is a lot more localized than people think. Sure, there are millions of fish in the river, a lot of big sunnies, etc.

That does NOT mean that every little fishing hole you find has an unlimited amount of fish in it. You’ll hear stuff like, ‘oh the fish wised up’, or ‘this front has given them lockjaw’, but you don’t hear, “I myself am responsible for fishing out this small little backwater area, because I greedily stocked my freezer with 75 8-10” sunnies.

I’ve heard it here a lot, how’s the walleye fishing on P4 today compared to 10 years ago? I myself have witnessed winter walleye fishing on LOTW get worse every year for the past 5 years or so. Are all the walleye gone? No. But when there are resorts fishing 2000+ people a week, all located on the edge of the dozen or so major reefs off the south shore, it adds up.

suzuki wrote:

I dont think the two topics are related. Except in the rare instance a poacher over harvest’s so he can give fish away. But I doubt the simple poacher is motivated by anything other than his own warped self interest. Two weeks ago I kept under my limit of gills and gave half to my friend. So what. I havent kept any more since or a while before. Relating poachers to gifters is insane.
Moderation used to be a concept understood by all and practiced by most.

I respectfully disagree these two topics are not related. I know not all gifting is bad. Clearly there are many people that can not get fish on their own but would love some. This is why gifting is allowed.

IMO the problem is with gifters that are just too “generous”. In fact so generous they start going door to door to gift/pawn off there catch. I grew up with a bunch of these people and there where numerous instances where they couldn’t gift anymore because he ran out of friends and family to gift fish too. Now if you don’t see how these too topics are related… god bless you.

My neighbor had a local gifter/poacher stop by a month ago and try to pawn off some walleye… he declined his offer and the gifter went down the road to his next friend. I believe in these instances the gifter just wants his ego stroked. Unfortunately it’s at the expense of other sportsman.

To be clear, the idea of making anglers log fish kept isn’t my idea. It is already implemented in various forms in several states (and maybe more), and also the UK has a system like this on their general angling license. I could be wrong, but I believe Ireland also has this system.

And it’s implemented for exactly the reason we’re talking about here: To prevent over-harvest by making clear to a CO both the angler’s daily tally and also revealing the fish that they may have in their possession through past harvests.

Yes, you could do it electronically, but the bottom line is forcing anglers to do this would VASTLY cut down on Fish Pigs going over the possession limit because there would finally be a very real way for law enforcement to catch them. There’s no way around the logging of fish kept because failing to fill in your log is, in itself, a violation.

The problem of Freezer Filling Fish Pigs is totally solve-able if we had the will.

By the way, in addition to being totally willing to pay more for every license I buy to hire more CO’s, I would GLADLY pay more for my fishing license if it meant this system would get implemented. Currently, this issue of Freezer Fillers is one of the worst things that is happening to ruin fishing in MN.

Grouse

Fishing licenses are criminally inexpensive in my mind. $24 for something you can literally do 365 days a year in Minnesota? Triple the price and make any infraction above a certain threshold an automatic loss of license. First violation, you can re-buy a catch and release license at $50, except it’s printed on bright pink paper, the fishing license equivalent of a whiskey plate. Second violation revokes your rights for a full year. And all your subsequent license purchases are ‘whiskey plate’ style. That way when you are fishing somewhere and get stopped by a warden, everyone around you can see you are a violator, it’s like public shaming.

I just hate the attitude that comes with this. I KNOW it’s not just the older generation that does this, but it’s where I’ve personally seen it the most. They have this smugness about them, “Oh you guys don’t even know what good fishing is, you’ll never get to see what it was like in the good old days”. Says the guy that is buying another chest freezer because his is full of venicin and panfish.

Honestly, it doesn’t matter who it is, young dudes, old dudes, white dudes, black dudes, asian dudes, hispanic dudes, girl dudes, boy dudes, it just needs to stop.

The log idea sounds good in theory, but until some SEVERE fines were issued, these game hogs just won’t log their fish. People have gotten away with this for so long that only swift and severe punishments will lead to any change. The threat of those punishments needs to be seen as real, and likely to happen. Right now, they see a CO a few times per year, maybe.

I agree with the other point, I would be glad to pay more for a license to fund more COs to protect the resources. There are too few the way it is, and they are stretched thin. Right around Walleye/Perch spawn, they’re busy with turkey hunting, and during the fall feeding frenzy, they’re busy with deer hunting etc…. Sadly, I’ve gotten to the point where I hate to acknowledge that I’ve ever even caught a fish, because of the fear of the game hogs raping the resource.

I live 300 yards away from a 600 acre lake, and I never fish it. I choose to leave this lake alone, because the same 5-10 old guys are out there every single day keeping every crappie and bluegill they can. COs thanked me for the information but said they couldn’t guarantee when they’d be able to check it out. That was 3 years ago, and I still see those same guys out every single day. One even told me he cleaned over 700 fish from that system the previous year, and bragged about the fish fry parties he has where he has 3-4 crock pots of fillets for all of his guests.

These guys think I’m the jerk, because I won’t teach them how to fish Walleyes on the river. This is fine with me, they’ve stopped asking now. Bottom line is, if the threat of penalties isn’t very real for these poachers, they will not stop. Nothing has slowed them down before now, only real fear has a chance.

The idea of fishing being a sport is totally lost on these people. We ended up fishing a spot that was literally less than 2 feet deep. There were a lot of other people out doing the same thing, but it was sight fishing for sunnies/perch. see the fish bit your jig, lift it out of the water before it can fight back. I caught a couple perch and stopped fishing, it just wasn’t enjoyable. You know how people say it’s called fishing not catching, well I’d call this harvesting, not fishing.

I live in SE Minnesota, making this all the more depressing to me. What scares me is the fact that in this part of the state we don’t have near as many fishable waters as the rest of the state, yet there’s still high pressure. I don’t feel like there’s really any drop-off in anglers in SE MN compared to the rest of the state, it’s just that that quantity of anglers has so few areas to fish. So those that insist on keeping their limit in these areas are actually keeping a larger percentage of the area’s fish than they would be in another part of the state.

Totally agree, while there are thousands upon thousands of acres of river backwaters in that portion of the state, how much of that is actually easily and safely accessible in the winter? There are a few spots I’d love to try in the winter, I just don’t know if they are safe to access and I really don’t want to find that out on my own.

I’m not exactly going to convince my pregnant wife to join me either :).

There was a group of three guys from Wisconsin that came and fished near us on Saturday, they were getting ridiculed constantly by everyone else(under their breath), for ‘keeping the little ones’. People were also making fun of them for continuing to count how many fish they had kept. Sad.

Even our most populated game fish are sensitive to overharvest.

And people wonder why I get upset about sturgeon…

philtickelson wrote:

they were getting ridiculed constantly by everyone else(under their breath), for ‘keeping the little ones’.

Last summer I was fishing a lake just outside of the Metro area in the summertime and was into a school of perch, although they were all small. I stayed on it for awhile trying to figure out if there were any bigger ones in it. In the meantime, an older guy came over in his boat and started yelling at us to keep the smaller perch rather than throw them back, and give to him- they were what he was looking for. Anything that was really small, like 3-6″ small.

He said that he keeps all the small fish he can catch, guts them out, and grinds them up and mixes them with burger meat for some patties. He was only out on the lake to search for a large quantity of small perch that he could easily catch. Unfortunately he saw me catching them and moved on in. He said the smaller fish have the smaller bones so you don’t have to fillet them out, they grind up really nice.

wimwuen wrote:

The log idea sounds good in theory, but until some SEVERE fines were issued, these game hogs just won’t log their fish. People have gotten away with this for so long that only swift and severe punishments will lead to any change. The threat of those punishments needs to be seen as real, and likely to happen. Right now, they see a CO a few times per year, maybe.

Failure to log fish would certainly have to be an offense on its own and I agree, being caught without fish logged on the license should be a fine, forfeiture of the fish, and loss of angling privileges for at least a year.

The thing I like about this solution is that it forces game hogs to leave a trail that can eventually be used as a noose to catch them.

It would also force Freezer Fillers to take the possession limit seriously because they would KNOW that that little piece of paper in their pocket can tell any CO they meet the truth about what’s in their freezer. Right now, there is a large population of Freezer Fillers out there who simply don’t care about possession limits because they know there’s very little chance of getting caught. All that would change.

We just need the will to make some changes and bring MN angling into the 21st century. The days when everybody could just do whatever without damaging angling for everyone are long gone. It’s time to recognize that and crack down on Freezer Fillers. It would only take a couple of hard, well-publicized crackdowns where Freezer Fillers get slammed with $50,000+ fines and loss of license and there would be a huge reduction in possession limit violators.

Grouse

I agree on a few major fines being needed, that and a VISIBLE presence of COs. I understand the constraints they’re faced with, but making sure they are highly visible whenever they can would also go a long way. Physically seeing them, and knowing that they see you time and time again “should” flag to the violators that somebody is paying attention.

One thing about most of these freezer fillers is, they like to justify it based on the cost of fish at the stores. $50,000 in fines would’ve bought plenty of fish.

I agree Grouse that we just need the will to make some changes, and a lot of good ideas have come up on this thread.

Bluegill can be dang fun to catch. I’d rather catch and release them for a year or two, knowing the population will survive, than keep plenty and not be able to catch them anymore.

I love eating fish I caught as much as the next guy, but if we do that too much we won’t be catching them period.

Tagging fish by logging them? If you think the participation rate is falling now, I could only imagine if people had to do this.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

It is already implemented in various forms in several states (and maybe more)

Do you know which states? Are we talking certain species or every species? Do you just have to log a total?

Participation rates are what interests me. Everybody says how many fewer people are fishing, however I’ve never seen the amount of boats out that I have the last 4-5 years. Trempealeau landing had over 60 boats out today, this was always 20-30.

Genoa can hit 100 boats easily on a nice day. I will agree that the numbers of younger anglers seems to be down, but I’ve never seen the 65+ crowd out in force like these last 5 years. If you want to see true gross over-bagging, come fish pool 8 when the big perch run. There are many trips to the ramps to dump fish in coolers. A few tickets get given out per year, but it’s obviously not enough of a deterant to keep it from happening.

I think you are all over thinking this, we will never stop it completely. The only way to help reduce it is education and reporting all offenders. We need to educate our youth and change this take whatever I want attitude.

icenutz wrote:

I think you are all over thinking this, we will never stop it completely. The only way to help reduce it is education and reporting all offenders. We need to educate our youth and change this take whatever I want attitude.

I think you are right! But if feels good to air it out once in a while.

People don’t view it as a crime, that’s the thing.

It’s not easy to come up with a good comparison, but you don’t see people stealing from the grocery store and justifying it with, “Oh well there’s so much food there that it won’t matter if I take a few loaves of bread, they’ll never notice and there will always be more being made”

I don’t believe for one second that if the DNR made licenses more expensive AND made people log fish catches that they’d see that big of a reduction in ‘participation’. Sure, some people will refuse to buy a license and continue to fish, and when they are caught that will come with a HEAVY fine. As long as they are up front about it. “new policy starting 2017, all kept fish must be logged before leaving lake. Unlogged fish are considered OVER your possession limit and fines will be as following.

first offense: Loss of license. Person may re-buy ‘offender’ license at inflated rate ONCE per 3 year period.

second offense: In the case person holds ‘offender’ license, that license is revoked and no additional license may be purchased for 18 months. Offender also fined $z for 2nd offender fee. If person does not hold ‘offender’ license, fine of $x per fish + $z 2nd offender fee.

third offense: $x per fish, $y triple offender fine, 5 year loss of license, seizure of fishing equipment(boat included?!) in possession at time of offense. Freezer check may be issued and an additional $z per fish over possession limit in freezer is applied and confiscated. Confiscated fish will be cooked at a monthly DNR fundraiser regional fish fry(lol).

fourth offense: lifetime ban.

If they are worried about young fishermen, well licenses are already free until you are what, 16? make 16-20 year old licenses cheaper. If a grown ass man is unwilling to pay whatever number they decide on for a fishing license then too friggin bad. You’re 58 years old, don’t you think the 900 pounds of over harvested fish you’ve let burn in your freezer puts you on the positive side of the ledger?

Most COs are packing heat right? Is that enough to get people to listen? As soon as you start talking fines, licenses being revoked, etc people might get a bit…heated. I wouldn’t want the COs to be put into a dangerous situation.

I know the MNR is mega strict on the rainy if you are in their water, lets take a page out of their playbook. I’ve heard stories of people getting their boats taken, could be total urban legend though. You set the precedent that your $60k Ranger is up for grabs if you break the rules and people would start listening real quick.

suzuki wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>icenutz wrote:</div>
I think you are all over thinking this, we will never stop it completely. The only way to help reduce it is education and reporting all offenders. We need to educate our youth and change this take whatever I want attitude.

I think you are right! But if feels good to air it out once in a while.

x2

Grouse, I agree the fish log sounds like a great idea but I’m wondering how this would reduce overharvesting? Can’t the fish hog just store their fish in other people’s freezers or call themselves “gifters” and give them away.

Can someone please tell me what the impact difference is between one angler filling his freezer and one angler filling everyone he knows freezers? According to many anglers here on IDO filling your freezer is horrible criminal act but killing the same amount of fish and giving them away is a perfectly moral thing to do. I realize one is legal and one is illegal but to me they are the same end result.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Phil, you’re exactly right and this issue of Freezer Fillers trawling out our lakes is, I think, the biggest problem in MN sport fishing today.

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>suzuki wrote:</div>
Stings to see it happen but totally normal. Nothing can stop it. I’ve seen so many lakes fished down in my life it’s impossible to keep track. If its not winter ice, its exploiting the spawn. Bluegills near people hardly stand a chance.

Actually, this problem has already been addressed and if not solved, at least the situation has been improved.

We need to go to a logging system where all fish kept have to be logged on the back of the license in ink as soon as the angler is off the water. If you keep a limit of sunfish on Saturday, you have to log them. If you keep another limit on Sunday, you have to log them. If you get caught off the water without all killed fish being logged, it’s an automatic fine and loss of license.

So if a CO checks a license and sees limit of sunfish logged on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday he now has that currently-missing piece of information to follow up and ask about a possible possession limit violation. If the license/log indicates that the angler could be a gross violator, then a search warrant can quickly be obtained.

We could crack down on Fish Pigs by 90% or more with this system. It’s no different than deer hunting where each hunter gets a tag and must tag any deer in possession. It would take 2 minutes of time every time you kept fish to fill out the log, but he info it provides to the CO would be priceless.

Grouse

philtickelson wrote:

People don’t view it as a crime, that’s the thing.

So did you call in the people you believed to be poaching this weekend? Just curious, because I’m sure you would have if they were stealing from your neighbors garage.

mplspug wrote:

Do you know which states? Are we talking certain species or every species? Do you just have to log a total?

This came up in a discussion some time ago so I’m going from memory, but I believe Washington and Oregon both require the logging of some species. I think it was sturgeon and perhaps others. At the time, it was a yearly limit so each fish had to be logged. Ireland requires you to log wild salmon caught.

It’s just a matter of scaling it so that in MN all fish are logged. On the back of the license are columns for Date / Species / Number taken. You simply write in the columns, one row for each species:

3/7/16 Sunfish 6
3/7/16 Crappie 2

The whole process takes less than 2 minutes to record. The back of the fishing license should easily have enough space for the vast majority of anglers to log an entire year’s catch. Personally, I’d use about 8-10 rows per year.

If you’re stopped by a CO on the way home, you show him the fish, show him your license/log and you’re good to go. Fail to log the fish and you’ve got a proplem. Show a pattern of keeping a number of fish over a period of time that could indicate a possession limit violation and the CO’s going to have more questions.

Grouse