"The Vietnam War" on PBS

If anyone is into history take a look at this series on PBS. I think it kicked off this past Sunday night, but I believe they’re playing re-runs and I have the past episodes stacked up on my DVR.

I heard Dan Barreiro talking about this series on his KFAN show and one thing he said he liked was that instead of interviewing famous Vietnam war vets like John Kerry or John McCain or high-level officers from the war, most of the interviews and commentary are from the everyday soldier who spent time there. I have to agree with that, it makes the perspective different.

And hey, I’ll never ever get sick of saying this…..

From the bottom of my hear and with every bit of American blood I have, thank you so damn very much to all of you Vietnam War veterans out there. We are forever indebted to you.

I watched one episode last night. Even though I don’t see eye to eye politically with Ken Burns he is brilliant at making documentaries.

From the bottom of my hear and with every bit of American blood I have, thank you so damn very much to all of you Vietnam War veterans out there. We are forever indebted to you.

Amen!!! Well said. Ditto, count me in, im on board. You all who served then, now, or before are my heros. I know many of you do not like the term “hero”, but you are what you are. I am ashamed of those that came before me that treated you with disrespect. Absolutely ashamed of them. You all did what was asked of you by our country regardless. You are the reason we live with the freedoms we have. God Bless You.

I think it is as good as his Civil War show. I am especially pleased at how unbiased the show is. It is a very good job at showing the complexities and political maneuvering that went on. Last nights episode was a real downer. Three US companies nearly wiped out to captured a nameless numbered hill we abanded an hour after we captured it. I’ll bet tonight’s will even be worse with the Tet offensive.

Very interesting and really well made, been watching every night. As a kid I saw it on television but was too young to really understand what was happening. I think its interesting how the show is showing it from the N Vietnamese point of view also and the internal machinations of both political parties. Really appreciate the views of the regular grunts and the protestors also. As a military veteran myself and all my trainers having been Vietnam vets, it just increases the respect I already had for them..talk about having to take a bite of a poop sandwich..Think it has very good

Ok, then. While there should be no disrespect towards our soldiers, there should also be no reflexive, back slapping pride in the old USA. The Vietnam war, our endeavors in the Middle East and Afghanistan have not made us safe. On the contrary, they have killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, gave terrorists huge propaganda wins, destabilized huge chunks of the world and made US corporations rich while militarizing our own country.

Why is it if our soldiers have made us so safe we need to spend more on our military than the next ten countries combined, have a state spying apparatus that any dictator would envy and cops here in the US that have more military gear than most third world countries?

This reflexive hero worship of our military is not healthy. We are the bad guys in the world and history will judge us for it.

Discuss

I’ll bite my tongue and might as well shut this thread down after that last comment.

The Senate defense budget will exceed one third of all global military spending. The INCREASE of 80 billion would be almost double what it would take for free college for everyone and about what medicare for all would cost.

When a country denies basic necessities to its citizens and inflicts itself on others, what do you call that?

When the citizens call for endless war and hold the soldier up as a hero, while bashing teachers, we have lost the moral high ground.

If you wont stand behind out soldiers for doing what is asked of them and protecting your butt, then you should stand in front of them!

TEAM AMERICA F*#K YEAH!

If what is asked of them is morally and legally wrong and you cheer them on, one day you WILL be standing in front of them.

When they came for the… fill in the blank. Oh, that’s right. It can’t happen here.

I will gladly stand NEXT TO THEM! and the big budgets and the brave HEROS is why it hopefully wont happen here. Now go to your safe space.

Gordon, while I acknowledge and respect your opinions and your right to express them, I am confused as to why you are still living here.

Seriously, I would not be able to look myself in the mirror if i were paying taxes that helped fund a machine I was so fundamentally morally and ethically in disagreement with. There must be better countries for you that are more closely in line with your beliefs.

Why would you still live here?

This country IS a safe space. We make it less so by killing all those other people that haven’t attacked us. Yes, I remember 911. Blowback for all our military adventures and there will be more. Yes, WE started it.

They don’t hate us for our freedoms. They hate us because we continue to poke them with a stick.

Timmy I think it’s cool that you state that you at least “acknowledge and respect your opinions and your right to express them” regard Gordon’s post. There are way too many people on this site who can’t deal with anyone else’s opinions but their own.

And I’ll echo Timmy’s sentiment. Gordon, I understand you have your own views and are passionate about them, just like I can agree or disagree with you or anyone else.

However, as the OP of this topic, I just wanted to make other IDO users aware of a pretty well put together documentary currently airing and I took the opportunity to also state my heartfelt thanks for Vietnam War veterans. You’re free to have your own opinions but maybe they’d be better suited somewhere else? Instead of taking this thread over maybe you could start your own discussing your thoughts on American foreign policy, then anyone who does want to get into that topic can go there.

I have no problem with promoting the documentary. I’ll be watching it myself. Had a brother in law who fought there and my dads best friend had a son die there. My brother in law died of cancer, quite likely caused by the chemicals he came in contact with over there.

It was the reflexive hero worship that kind of got to me. The men and women who were there were in a bad place and many still suffer from it, but that doesn’t make what they did there a positive. They did not make us safe. N. Vietnam never threatened the US or it’s neighbors. Those who made the moral choice and decided not to go were just as heroic in their stand as those who went. THAT is what makes the USA great.

I’m done. I have to get busy at work.

Gordon I don’t know if you have any military service in your background or not, so I’ll try and explain something based on what you said.

gordonk wrote:

but that doesn’t make what they did there a positive

“What they did there” is not determined by the 19-year-old who loved his country and wanted to serve in the armed forces, nor is it determined by the middle-class 21-year-old who was notified that his draft number had been called and he was to report for duty. These men and women, if volunteers, likely volunteered for noble causes, and if they were draftees, they never had a say in the matter anyway. But they did their duties and, if you know what combat experience is like, they dealt with terrifying experiences.

“what they did there” is determined by the government, high-level military leaders, etc. So if you hate the policies and you hate “what they did there” I don’t see how you can’t express gratitude, honor, and pride for the veterans who did so much there.

Gordon, I’ll chime on this once before the lock up comes. My guess is you have read to many books that were anti Viet Nam. While the war wasn’t popular it wasn’t our troops choice to be sent there. There is a saying that “old fat men send young people to die.” Thats true 200 years ago and today and tomorrow.These guys did what they were told. Many sacrificed life and limb so that you may pound away on your keyboard. I’ll let you form your own opinion as to the validity of war, whether it’s a necessary evil or it just supports our economy. But don’t you ever, and I mean ever go on a public forum and disparage these young people. It matters not which war we are talking about either. These people (along with first responders) put their lives on the line 24 / 7 / 365 so old fat guys like me can come and go as we please. You obviously take all the freedoms this country affords us for granted. If so, shame on you. As far as the military budget goes. Yes it’s a boatload of money. However previous administrations have cut back and the bad guys just keep growing and growing in numbers and strength. So, if you want the little crazy guy in North Korea or the the Taliban, ISIS, the nuts in Africa or the Soviet Union to watch us weaken ourselves so be it. Right now I’m kinda sick of being pushed around and I’ll let me crazy guy deal with the other crazies if it comes to that.

gordonk wrote:

When a country denies basic necessities to its citizens and inflicts itself on others, what do you call that?

North Korea…

I was going to move on with my life, but this last post won’t let me.

North Korea? Seriously? They are not attacking other countries. We are the ones doing that. Is the guy seriously whacko? Yup. But then again, so is ours.

N. Korea needs a nuke to keep us off its back. Why not ask why we stage massive military exercises every spring and fall so that they have to pull farmers away from the fields and into the reserves? Sure they are starving, but we help keep them that way. We bombed them into the stone age once and we are constantly threatening them. Remember the axis of evil? When you have a nuke, the US cannot dictate terms as easily.

They do not have a death wish. Just an urge to keep the US out.

Let them live as they want. Yes, he’s a bad guy, but so are the Saudi’s and we work very well with them no matter how repressive they are to their own people.

Oh, and Dutchboy, who is pushing us around? We are the pushers. I am so sick of guys like you thinking that killing little brown people keeps us safe. It does the exact opposite. I do not disparage those fighting for us, but I also do not think that reflexive here worship is warranted.

We are the ones meddling in elections, toppling governments we do not like and whenever people elect themselves a politician that wants something good for the people, we call them commies and put in a right wing dictator. Ya, we get pushed around a lot.

It’s so sad how frightened we have become. Our ancestors went across the country in covered wagons not knowing what lay ahead and now, we huddle in fear, letting our government commit atrocities in our name.

gordonk wrote:

North Korea? Seriously? They are not attacking other countries. We are the ones doing that.

So which country sent missiles over Japan, North Korea or USA? And does anyone know if or when the next one will finally hit the ground or continue out and fall in the ocean?

I suggest you go live in one of the better countries. One that takes our money and questions our morals. In fact i’ll put up the first $100 to get you going.
You might be sick of guys like me but you wouldn’t survive a year outside of this country.
To everybody else i apologize, i had said i would only chime in once.

gordonk wrote:

Why is it if our soldiers have made us so safe we need to spend more on our military than the next ten countries combined, have a state spying apparatus that any dictator would envy and cops here in the US that have more military gear than most third world countries?

This reflexive hero worship of our military is not healthy. We are the bad guys in the world and history will judge us for it.

Discuss

our soldiers are, well, soldiers, they are not the ones who decide where to go. Point your fingers at the politicians, call and write to them if you disagree with the choices of various campaigns….

I’ll throw in a hundred bucks

I guess Will Rogers never met Gordon.

My brother was killed in Vietnam. My mom couldn’t attend his funeral due to being hospitalized with a nervous breakdown. I forewent college and enlisted when I was 17, out of guilt for being alive or some crap.

Was my brother my hero? You’re Godamn right he was. That war still haunts our family. But when our young men and women are called they go.

Kinda sounds like you blame the USA for North Koreas issues, something I just can’t wrap my mind around. I’m starting to think you’re just getting a kick out of ruffling feathers.

I’ll stop, I’m so upset I’m on the verge getting banned from here and you’re not worth it.

By the way, my brother’s name was Gordon (Gordy)

Have a great weekend everyone! Enjoy peaceful sleep.

Thanks Dan completly spaced on this series

Bummer I missed the first 5 but I will tune in on the 24th when the series starts back up for the final 5 shows.
I have not seen any rebroadcast notification but I have not dug into it verry deep yet.

I’ll stay away from the rest of conversation as I don’t want a pool started for me to leave the country because my opinion is not understood.

Anyone who runs towards gunfire, explosions, a building on fire, you name it, is a hero in my book. They put their lives on the line for someone else. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Belletaine,
First of all, thank you for your service (as well as anyone else here, in whatever capacity, during whatever conflict or peacetime) and I am sorry that your family paid the ultimate sacrifice in the name of our country. I hope you can see from the vast majority of the posts that most of us don’t care why you fought, but rather are thankful that you did.

gordonk,
In order to get your message across without offending or alienating people further from your position, you should understand that this is not the post to discuss your feelings on the Vietnam War or any other war that you believe was fought for immoral reasons. There are several on this site that are former vets or know vets who were vilified simply because they answered the call. Your rant, while it has merit, does not belong on this post. Start a new thread or take it elsewhere.

I myself have this series DVRing, but not sure when I will find the time to catch up on it. If anyone is into podcasts, I recently finished up Dan Carlin’s “Countdown to Armageddon” on his Hardcore History podcast. It is a full view of World War 1, from all sides, most of which I never heard anything about before. Dutch’s quote “old fat men send young people to die” doesn’t even begin to describe what the generals of that war did to the youth of their nations.

To all the vets, thank you again for your service!

jake47 wrote:

It is a full view of World War 1, from all sides, most of which I never heard anything about before.

Each war in our history is so unique and has its own story, it’s own era, etc. Obviously as time passes society forgets more and more about those time periods. Between books and magazine articles I’ve read a fair amount on WWI in the past year. I actually just finished reading “All Quiet on the Western Front.” Unreal. I kind of regret not going to that WWI exhibit that was in the cities for awhile earlier this year. I don’t mean to put one war, its veterans, or the people it affected on one echelon over the other, rather it’s unique because we hear less and less about WWI.

1hl&sinker wrote:

Thanks Dan completly spaced on this series

Bummer I missed the first 5 but I will tune in on the 24th when the series starts back up for the final 5 shows.
I have not seen any rebroadcast notification but I have not dug into it verry deep yet.

I’ll stay away from the rest of conversation as I don’t want a pool started for me to leave the country because my opinion is not understood.

They’ve been rerunning previous episodes ahead of the new episodes. I caught some of episode 3 or 4 earlier this week and decided to dvr the whole thing and start from the beginning. It sounds like the beginning of the documentary goes back to the late 19th century.

At this point, I am going to wait for E1 to re-air before jumping back in. I think it airs again this weekend.