The NRA Response

I guess this should be posted in the Hunting General Forum but I know most fishermen (and women) hunt or have weapons too. In fact, since we are all citizens of the US, this should matter to all of us.

Well stated video.

Best quote I have read….

Obama says “Congress has failed to act” In reality, Congress is in fact upholding the will of the people who elected them.

-J.

When can we finally get some action on the REAL cause of these mass shootings?

The recent mass shootings have almost all involved seriously mentally ill individuals who were untreated. In all cases, their parents or others in positions of authority knew about the mental illness, but there is currently no way to compel people to get treatment or to confine for treatment even the most mentally ill individuals. Until, of course, they harm or even kill others.

We need nationwide options where mental health treatment is available to all citizens AND we need the ability for the good of the mentally ill to be able to confine and treat those who are too ill to even understand their condition or that they need treatment. We can’t have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in a society where mentally ill individuals are just turned out on the streets to go on plotting to kill our children.

Obviously, as has been proven in France, the most draconian gun control measures do nothing to stop terrorists. Terrorists don’t care about gun laws and they have the funding and support from terrorist backers in Muslim countries such that they will always be able to buy and smuggle in weapons not matter how much gun control is in place.

The Federal Government should focus on keeping terror perps out of this country and stop trying use this as a backdoor excuse to enact more gun control that will only impact the law abiding.

Grouse

Grouse would be a good politician. That above commentary sounds like a politician in October before the election. I’m not saying he’s wrong but never (and I mean never…) will wack job tendencies go away. Both the sane and the insane will always be able to harm others with guns knives and baseball bats. All we can do is hold our guns close to our person and protect ourselves and the one’s we love…RR

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

When can we finally get some action on the REAL cause of these mass shootings?

The recent mass shootings have almost all involved seriously mentally ill individuals who were untreated. In all cases, their parents or others in positions of authority knew about the mental illness, but there is currently no way to compel people to get treatment or to confine for treatment even the most mentally ill individuals. Until, of course, they harm or even kill others.

We need nationwide options where mental health treatment is available to all citizens AND we need the ability for the good of the mentally ill to be able to confine and treat those who are too ill to even understand their condition or that they need treatment. We can’t have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in a society where mentally ill individuals are just turned out on the streets to go on plotting to kill our children.

Obviously, as has been proven in France, the most draconian gun control measures do nothing to stop terrorists. Terrorists don’t care about gun laws and they have the funding and support from terrorist backers in Muslim countries such that they will always be able to buy and smuggle in weapons not matter how much gun control is in place.

The Federal Government should focus on keeping terror perps out of this country and stop trying use this as a backdoor excuse to enact more gun control that will only impact the law abiding.

Grouse

Are these people mentally ill or do the have a personality disorder? MN state hospital is full of people that are not mentally ill. You can treat mental illnes but a personality disorder you can’t.

Just a note about mental health. I have sat in ER with patients for up to 12 hours while staff tries to find a place for them. Not good.
DT

Spot on Grouse.

This one will be easy to get off subject
There has been so much crap flying around the last 24 hours on this, that its a little tough to know what is exactly is ink on paper.
So rather than just being sheep aimlessly wondering the internet, here is a link to the actual Executive Orders.
But first, my favorite quote from the White House https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/01/04/fact-sheet-new-executive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our

Administration is announcing a series of commonsense executive actions designed to:

Take a look at what your President and staff wants you to see:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions

Yep, that’s right….they posted a Memorandum, but not the Executive Orders. My gut says they don’t want them all out to the public yet until the dust settles…..

Like so many others have previously stated – You can’t let a major crisis go to waste. Best to use it to a political advantage.

Now, if just the common sense laws that are existing would be enforced, we would already see a reduction in crime rates. Oh, also had to laugh when they stated the 30,000 deaths with firearms. OVER 20K is from suicides.

Jon Jordan wrote:

Best quote I have read….

Obama says “Congress has failed to act” In reality, Congress is in fact upholding the will of the people who elected them.

-J.

Absolutely.

I don’t get why they go after guns only. guns don’t kill people. people kill people. people get behind the wheel of a car and people get killed, ya don’t see them trying to outlaw cars. people with mental illness get behind the wheel, are they doing anything about that. knives kill people, but that knife didn’t just jump out of that drawer and stab someone. Obummer….cant wait till he is out of office.

roosterrouster wrote:

Grouse would be a good politician. That above commentary sounds like a politician in October before the election. I’m not saying he’s wrong but never (and I mean never…) will wack job tendencies go away. Both the sane and the insane will always be able to harm others with guns knives and baseball bats. All we can do is hold our guns close to our person and protect ourselves and the one’s we love…RR

We enjoy the most freedom allowed to any humans on the planet and the price is not cheap. It never has been and never will be. I choose FREEDOM. Too many people think “the price of freedom” is only paid on the battle field and that simply is not true. We all pay for it.

suzuki wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>roosterrouster wrote:</div>
Grouse would be a good politician. That above commentary sounds like a politician in October before the election. I’m not saying he’s wrong but never (and I mean never…) will wack job tendencies go away. Both the sane and the insane will always be able to harm others with guns knives and baseball bats. All we can do is hold our guns close to our person and protect ourselves and the one’s we love…RR

We enjoy the most freedom allowed to any humans on the planet and the price is not cheap. It never has been and never will be. I choose FREEDOM. Too many people think “the price of freedom” is only paid on the battle field and that simply is not true. We all pay for it.

Huh? I am not saying your’re wrong but I don’t understand how what you said relates to my comment???

Obama’s executive order will be tossed out by the court. The President does not have the power to spend money. Only the legislature has that authority. If the first judge to hear the case does not reverse the President’s actions, the supreme court will.

I’m surprise that his attorney general did not advise him of this fact. Maybe she did, and he just ignored her???

-J.

Jon Jordan wrote:

’m surprise that his attorney general did not advise him of this fact. Maybe she did, and he just ignored her???

I’m sure they said lets do it and when it “fails” just blame others. I think it is all to give the appearance if trying to do something. Look at all the grousing about a gun show loophole which as I understand it does not exist. You can repeat a lie enough to be believed.

Jon Jordan wrote:

Well stated video.

Best quote I have read….

Obama says “Congress has failed to act” In reality, Congress is in fact upholding the will of the people who elected them.

-J.

Not according to a lot of polling data, especially after Newtown.

Here is where I enter the obligatory I am a gun owner comment.

deertracker wrote:

Just a note about mental health. I have sat in ER with patients for up to 12 hours while staff tries to find a place for them. Not good.
DT

No lie we just had a mentally ill individual in the er where I work for 37 hours.

Back when I was a full time police officer I have driven over 300 miles to get someone to a mental health facility that had an open bed.

Jonesy wrote:

Not according to a lot of polling data, especially after Newtown.

This is from a CNN news story posted today:

On the overall issue of gun control, 48% of Americans support stricter laws, while 51% were opposed, according a CNN/ORC poll released last month.

I suspect a FOX new poll would be even more opposed.

-J.

Jon Jordan wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Black98TransAm wrote:</div>
Not according to a lot of polling data, especially after Newtown.

This is from a CNN news story posted today:

On the overall issue of gun control, 48% of Americans support stricter laws, while 51% were opposed, according a CNN/ORC poll released last month.

I suspect a FOX new poll would be even more opposed.

-J.

Did not see the cnn pole thanks for the link. Polling data is fluid. I believe it was a gallop pole after Newtown that showed support in the 80’s for increased measures.

Now as far as the executive action I was surprised it didn’t reach further. Overall I’m not super concerned about it.

glenn57 wrote:

I don’t get why they go after guns only. guns don’t kill people. people kill people. people get behind the wheel of a car and people get killed, ya don’t see them trying to outlaw cars. people with mental illness get behind the wheel, are they doing anything about that. knives kill people, but that knife didn’t just jump out of that drawer and stab someone. Obummer….cant wait till he is out of office.

Meanwhile across the pond…..
http://surrenderyourknife.co.uk/

Are we next?

It’s designed to somehow get Hilary elected or at least on the ballot. Does she still trail Putin in the polls?

I think it is all to give the appearance if trying to do something.

Exactly!

Face it. It ain’t gun control they’re after. It’s CONTROL.

brad-o wrote:

Are these people mentally ill or do the have a personality disorder? MN state hospital is full of people that are not mentally ill. You can treat mental illnes but a personality disorder you can’t.

The situations are not mutually exclusive. Some personality disorders are caused by mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, some are differences in mental function and cognition that manifest themselves in the symptoms that are lumped in the category of “personality disorder”. For example, obsessive compulsive disorders. Mental illnesses and conditions that are considered personality disorders all can be treated, like any illness the success of treatments depend on a wide variety of factors.

The point is that currently we an extreme shortage of mental health care and our system does not provide a clear and effective path to placing an individual into protective care and confining them for treatment proactively. In the process, the most dangerous people like Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooter manage to slip through because although his parents, teachers, school staff, social workers, and doctors all knew he was mentally ill before his massive killing spree. But none of them helped him because he had not yet harmed himself or others and there is no system that provides the confined treatment that he needed.

You don’t stop mentally ill killers until you deal with the mental illness.

Grouse

Incidents like Newtown always get a knee jerk reaction in the polls… I remember the main jerk was really going after the guns after that one….

The reason health care professionals are reluctant to add the D To a MI commitment is that usually makes it a life sentance. The out lining problem is parents have kids with no business have kids. The child gets about age four or five and the parents let the streets raise the child. As for personality disorders have a beer in a bar in St Peter and talk to someone that works at Minnesota state security hospital.

In response to Lapierre and the gang bangers…. nobody cares if gang bangers kill each other, it is when innocent lives are affected…. not lives that quite honestly, “do not matter” to the president and general public. Just sayin’….

big_g wrote:

In response to Lapierre and the gang bangers…. nobody cares if gang bangers kill each other, it is when innocent lives are affected…. not lives that quite honestly, “do not matter” to the president and general public. Just sayin’….

Innocent lives are affected. From the officers on the seen, to the EMT’s, nurses, Dr. There is a reason these professions have high rates of substance abuse. You can’t see what they see and not be affected.

OK, I get that… also the occasional innocent victim sitting in their house get caught in crossfire… I think you know what I mean and just like to hear yourself… typing…

I hate typing on this dam smart phone!!!