The Frozen Chosen on netflix

I’ve always been one to feel the the WI Sturgeon Spearing season was legal and pretty cool.
Those sturgeon are likely to be the most studied sturgeon in the US. The way the WDNR limits the kill made sense.

Although it was hard for me to see these fish older then I harvested, they had a good handle on the population…and it’s legal.

After watching the Frozen Chosen on Netflix last night the documentary has changed my mine.

The people shown in this video were not sportsmen. They were dragging them around from bar to bar showing them off until the flesh was spoiled. One DNR official (which looked like the context was changed) said they lay them on the bar, or behind them in the bar or stand them up on a bar stool and feed the dead fish drinks.

Now I’m sure there are people that love to spear and take the fish home to grill, smoke or whatever, but this “documentary” was a disgrace to WI in general and more so to the spearers of WI.

It’s possible the only villain here is the director of the film. I’m sure a video of anglers taking 10 pound walleyes from bar to bar would be highly successful as well.

From what i have seen, and from what I have experienced through several friends that avidly spear out there, the “documentary” only nailed a couple of things. 1) the sturgeon spearing season is a big deal to the local economy, and 2) lots of beer gets drank.

Beyond that, its a typical over the top piece of trash as far as documentaries go. I am sure there are some guys that behave that way, but it sure isnt the norm. For every guy that wastes a sturg, I’d be comfortable betting there are 500 guys that drive around showing off the buck they got that will end up at the dump……

Beyond that, its a typical over the top piece of trash as far as documentaries go. I am sure there are some guys that behave that way, but it sure isnt the norm. For every guy that wastes a sturg, I’d be comfortable betting there are 500 guys that drive around showing off the buck they got that will end up at the dump……

It sure could be “over the top”. In the first few minutes the narrator was talking about these people “risking their lives for a beast”. I’m guessing that meant going out on the ice.

Two wrongs don’t make a right…and I would love to see a film made touting the waste of deer.

The video with it’s testimonies from people participating and the DNR sure make it appear to be the norm.

This show really confirmed exactly what I always thought. It’s nothing more than a reason to spend time on the ice and in the bars getting hammered and talking about the big fish you dragged in, or the one that got away. I can certainly understand the appeal in a way in which people really enjoy such as the eelpout fest or really any fishing derby. Nothing worse than the fun police, but It’s unfortunate that about 100 massive old fish have to die for it. A lot of people use deer hunting as an analogy and on the surface is actually pretty accurate, however that deer you shot can come back in a few years, this big ol sturgeon is not coming back in your lifetime, perhaps maybe your kid or grandkids will see it but not you. Sure the program is overdramatic and edited in a way that might not be entirely accurate, but if you watch the people and listen to them, it’s pretty easy to read between the lines. One thing I found pretty disgusting is how the just let em bleed out for a few hours, and don’t even put em out of their misery. Either they freeze solid or eventually croak, but a lot of them were still bleeding, gasping, and writhing around while being dragged in and hung up. Can you imagine the outcry if a deer was doing the same thing while it was being weighed in at a public hunting event? I really see no reason that this long held tradition couldn’t happen with people using a hook and line and releasing their catch. You can still have the drinking, you can still have the weigh stations, and you can still have the party festival, you can still have the bragging and stories, heck even put in a small harvest slot so a handful of lucky folks can still enjoy eating them. Just because data might show that we CAN kill these big old fish, does that mean we should? A bunch of 50lb flatheads or muskies harvested wouldn’t even move the needle as far as total population, but we have come to understand how important those big fish are so we protect them. I’m stealing this from UnCut Angling, but think of any fish population as a pyramid. The bottom base layer is made up of millions of smaller size fish and as you go up the fish get bigger and the number gets smaller until you are at the top with a very small number of very big fish. Why would we want to chop off the top of the pyramid when we can safely and effectively chip away small sections of the base?

I’m thinking I’m starting to understand the 25 flathead limit for WI on our border waters a little better now.

+1 dtro.

It’s the age that people can’t comprehend.

I don’t know of another fish or mammal you can compare Sturgeon to… Simply due to their life cycle

I’m from WI, and know some people who spear Sturgeon. I’ve seen a mix of both sides. Some that do it for the tradition, and love to smoke the meat etc…, and some that use this as a testosterone fueled party weekend. I’ve said it many times, and I’ll say it again here. If you make ANYTHING into a competition among men, you will see the worst man has to offer. Throw in alcohol and it’ll only be amplified. That lake Winnebago area is a different slice of Wisconsin than the western part I live in.

You should see the amount of 60K + boats lined up in Omro for the sheephead fishing contests in the summer. It’s mind blowing to me that they get hundreds of boats signed up for these contests, then hundreds of people partying afterwards. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but that small part of the state definitely has a different culture. Not to say we don’t have bad apples on the west border, because we do.

I’m not defending the sturgeon spearing, have not seen the show, and have never been over to witness it.

One positive side of this tradition gets born out though in the love for this species of fish. And to protect the fish when they are in shallow rivers spawning, they have hundreds of volunteers called the sturgeon guard there to make sure the fish are not poached in the spring.

Hopefully this show shines a light on some practices that get fixed, cause the resource is well managed and the sturgeon guard effort is pretty impressive.

ET

dtro wrote:

Just because data might show that we CAN kill these big old fish, does that mean we should?

I will throw in my .02. I am a proponent of the sportsmen of the world having access to resources when available. Like it or not, these fish are pretty old when speared, but being old doesn’t mean they aren’t renewable. The fact is these fish are a renewable resource. I like that the DNR is allowing this to happen. Like BK said, this population is studied thoroughly and the DNR has a strict quota.

In case anyone that’s reading this that’s not aware.

* Sexual maturity in females is reached between 14 and 33 years, most often from 24-26 years; and, 8 to 12 years for males (but may take up to 22 years);
* Female lake sturgeon spawn once every 4 to 9 years while males spawn every 2 to 7 years;

* As a consequence of interrupted spawning cycles, only 10-20% of adult lake sturgeon within a population are sexually active and spawn during a given season.

Source: https://www.fws.gov/midwest/sturgeon/biology.htm

yeah “renewable”

anyone want to take up tortoise hunting?

Saw the “documentary” and it was a disgrace to the sport. It almost seemed like the agenda of the film was to shut the season down.

I see the Sturgeon spearing season there as how the MN DNR is seeing the new Northern Pike regs. They know each part of the great state of MN is different and needs to be managed differently. I do not see the idea of harvesting Sturgeon in the Bago system any differently. The population is very closely managed, much better than any species the MN DNR manages.

What do you do when you catch a Crappie on the ice and want to keep it? You throw it on the ice to die. Sunfish? Same. Walleye? most do the same. Are they glorifying their kill more than they should in the film? Heck yes. But it’s essentially no different than any other species.

I am aware of the spawning habits of these great fish, but I have confidence in the WI DNR population numbers and believe the population can be sustained if they continue to do their job. Will I ever partake in the tradition? No. But I do understand and respect it. The “documentary” painted a very tainted and gruesome picture of the sport. Would we be having this conversation if they changed the season to hook and line with the same harvest numbers? possibly, but it would be less polarized.

It sure appears like they have a very good, conservative, handle on that particular population. With their long lived tradition, some harvest is part of their plan. From my understanding, there is no other legal pressure on the fish. With a strictly monitered and enforced harvest cap for each category, it appears that the WDNR is managing this very renewably.

All animals have a safe and sustainable harvest level. Even of we disagree with it, we have to admit that they have a heck of a lot more control over harvest numbers than MN does.

I have not seen the video yet but based on descriptions, opinions, here I can imagine the reaction particularly if the entire content is on the ugly side. As we all know there is an ugly side to most anything and can certainly be easier to find that when fishing and hunting is examined by those that look at it from the other side of society.
My son-in-laws twin brother now living in Green Bay has been introduced to the Winnebago sturgeon spearing the last few years. There are many that take the pursuit very seriously and and spend a lot of time preparing. He explained how they would go out weeks in advance scouting. They would drill holes in various locations and drop tubes down to the bottom and collect samples. They could then determine based on organism density what the best areas would be. Not so different than scouting likely deer habitat.
Point being that there are many that participate based on culture and traditions that do not include drunkeness and disrespecting the animal. Like deer camp, for many it is time spent with friends, family and even the dog.
It’s not like the media ever sensationalizes anything for a story…right?
BTW, they did not get a sturgeon but the dog had a good time!

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Watch the video guys.

Personally I’d love to ban any harvest of Sturgeon.

I love the effort and research that goes into some harvested fish to gain knowledge to do a better job.

However I will quote someone who represents an agency, similar to ones that regulate deer or walleye which have short life spans.

It is this very thought that strongly supports my reasoning behind wanting to ban Sturgeon harvest. Ever notice how short sighted we are as people.

Kendall kamke
WI DNR
The frozen chosen 2014

” Its the kind of species that’s like managing an oak forest. What you do today your probably not going to see the end result of, maybe in your career even. ”

I agree with FBRM. I would have to think to properly study the affects one variable (harvest) on a population, 1-2 life cycles need to take place. That certainly hasn’t happened so I’m not so sure that the harvest analysis can even be verified.

Let me know in 100 years how the population looks as a result of spearing. I’m not saying what they’re doing now isn’t accurate, I’m just saying that it hasn’t been verified because it can’t be.

Take one huge variable (harvest) out of the ecosystem and you’ll never have to worry about the affect.

those sturgeon are especially vulnerable to poaching during the spawn. many of the same people who tour the bars with their trophy fish in the winter, are volunteering to stand guard over the fish along the rivers at night in the spring.

it pays to be careful who you judge, know the whole story, and not base your perceptions on a sensationalistic “documentary.”

that’s a world class fishery, being managed by the WI-DNR in a world-class manner.

biggill wrote:

Take one huge variable (harvest) out of the ecosystem and you’ll never have to worry about the affect.

Take that one variable out of the equation, and you will also have to take out the significant source of money the harvest season generates, plus the massive public involvement (the sturgeon watch, or whatever they call it). The tightly monitored harvest (90% of a harvest cap of any category of fish (adult female, juvenile female, etc)triggers a season closure) results in huge public interest and support of the species and significant financial impacts to both the WDNR for management as well as the local economies. There have been yrs when the season lasted only a couple days, and seasons where the 16 days expired without a harvest cap being reached

I wish MN would follow suit and significantly tighten harvest caps. As it is now, any schmo in MN with $5 can potentially kill a fish every yr. A non-refundable application fee for a limited number of tags would help control the harvest a lot more tightly – much like anterless permits for deer.

T

Netflix must have a “Make People from Eastern WI All Look Like Inbred Dipsh*ts in a Documentary” department.

They are now 2 or 2.

skinnywater wrote:

Netflix must have a “Make People from Eastern WI All Look Like Inbred Dipsh*ts in a Documentary” department.

They are now 2 or 2.

Haha glad I’m from Western Wisconsin!

Im going to have to watch this first but one question I’m curious about, is the eco system in the Winnebago different where the sturgeon grow faster allowing for this kind of harvest?

Michael C. Winther wrote:

that’s a world class fishery, being managed by the WI-DNR in a world-class manner.

I absolutely will not disagree with this statement.

However, I think they’re too confident given lifespan of such species, as well as the politics involved and lifespan of such political positions which are severely less in length than that of the species they are managing.

They closed the season in the late 1800’s then opened it again in 1932 to help feel a depressed area. I know it’s the most studied sturgeon in the US…but I don’t have any info on the rate of growth there compared to other areas.

I’m still looking for when they actual first started studying them.

Although it really doesn’t matter. They take a long time before they can spawn once…what was the quote 10-15% of the population spawning in a given year.

I feel as I always have, they are well managed. That video just portrayed everyone to be whackos killing fish for all the wrong reasons. I’m sorry, the last thing I would worry about is the economy. It’s a plus but would be the last thing to be considered.

If you haven’t watched the video it won’t make any sense to most.

Brian Klawitter wrote:

However, I think they’re too confident given lifespan of such species, as well as the politics involved and lifespan of such political positions which are severely less in length than that of the species they are managing.

I followed that and agree.

FishBlood&RiverMud wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Michael C. Winther wrote:</div>
that’s a world class fishery, being managed by the WI-DNR in a world-class manner.

I absolutely will not disagree with this statement.

However, I think they’re too confident given lifespan of such species, as well as the politics involved and lifespan of such political positions which are severely less in length than that of the species they are managing.

This sounds so much like what many have said about an iconic lake in central Minnesota that has been surrounded in controversy for years and expert analysis, and opinions, and research and the rules are always different every year…

And the Winnebago system is not all that dissimilar from “an iconic lake in central Minnesota.” Yet somehow it’s avoided the same degrees of boom and bust by multiple species experienced there.

Reacting to what some people do with a fish after harvest, is a different issue than whether or not the harvest itself is sustainable. Toting them around to bars, hanging them on racks like deer, etc. is a big part of the culture – and makes for bad optics!

The idea that you have to study an animal for multiple generations to understand and manage it has face validity, but not necessarily actual validity. They closely monitor the population, the age structure of that population, reproduction, and recruitment. Fish are registered like big game, and the limits that trigger a closure are different based on gender, etc. If panfish were managed even 1/10th as well, we’d be consistently catching 12″ bluegills in our favorite lakes…year after year after year. Heck, if pike spearing in MN was this well managed the hammer-handle issue would probably look quite a bit different.

There’s lots of better information available than from a Netflix show if you take the time to read it:
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/Fishing/Sturgeon/SturgeonLakeWinnebago.html

Thanks Michael, bed time reading tonight.

Can I ask if you’re with the WDNR or some other state agency?

Brian Klawitter wrote:

Thanks Michael, bed time reading tonight.

The article in Badger Sportsman by the area DNR biologist is particularly informative.

Can I ask if you’re with the WDNR or some other state agency?

I’m not a biologist, and I don’t spear. But I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

One of the intriquing things to me about the management approach for these sturgeon is that it’s fish-centric. The harvest limit/closure is based on the actual (estimated) fish population rather than a limit per license. That means even as it gains popularity and more licenses are sold (which it is doing) the number of fish allowed to be harvested is still based on the fish population – so, less fish per spear and an incentive not to invite more people along.

And separately, an 80″ sturgeon in a sled on a bar top is a tough image to get your head around…especially for a CPR muskie guy like me. It seems like wanton waste or at least disrespectful. Being drunk increases this perception. But I grew up over there and know guys who spear (and tour the bars with fish) and by-and-large they’re knowledgeable, invested, and incredibly respectful.

wimwuen wrote:

Some that do it for the tradition, and love to smoke the meat etc…, and some that use this as a testosterone fueled party weekend.

Not having watched the doc and being 1500 miles away, all I will say is I have no problem what happens to a fish after a harvest with the exception that it is utilized. I don’t like seeing wanton waste.

At face value it seems like a great tradition, with great economic impact that breeds personal responsibility to ensure the future of the fish. And it also draws attention to these magnificent beasts.

I finally watched this last night and wow was the narrating horrible. The Frozen Chosen was just a horrible name. I personally have no problem with the spearing of sturgeon because how closely it is monitored. Now this Documentary doesn’t fully show that.