pass-through with rifle?

  • sipple31
    West Central Sconni
    Posts: 427
    November 24, 2012 at 12:50 am #210298

    What are your guys’ opinion on getting a pass with a rifle? I’m having some questionable stuff going on with my .270. Shot a buck at 30 yards instant kill, but no pass. Shot a doe at 100 yards tonight…not a bad shot, but she wouldn’t die! Again no pass. I feel like getting a pass would greatly increase my odds of a humane kill. These are 130 gr handloads. Probably very fast, just a plain soft point bullet. Do I need to look into 150 gr or just a different bullet?

    the_grump
    Le Center
    Posts: 612
    November 24, 2012 at 2:12 am #127298

    I don’t shoot a .270 but I have seen this wit both a 30-06 and a 7mm mag. What we found in common was ballistic tip bullets. I have had really good luck with Winchester Supreme or for less money federal fusions have worked great on deer. Last year I shot thru a 3″ sapling and still had a pass thru, the deer never took another step.

    neusch303
    Posts: 539
    November 24, 2012 at 2:53 pm #127302

    Quote:

    What are your guys’ opinion on getting a pass with a rifle? I’m having some questionable stuff going on with my .270. Shot a buck at 30 yards instant kill, but no pass. Shot a doe at 100 yards tonight…not a bad shot, but she wouldn’t die! Again no pass. I feel like getting a pass would greatly increase my odds of a humane kill. These are 130 gr handloads. Probably very fast, just a plain soft point bullet. Do I need to look into 150 gr or just a different bullet?

    Bad bullets. Are you finding fragments inside the deer? Weight is not as important as bullet construction. These new powders are pushing bullets harder and faster than ever and it has taken the bullet manufacturers years to catch up. THEN people were still using older slower powders with modern bullets and getting poor results. Having the right “cocktail” is very important. Some bullets are meant to be pushed fast and hard (above 2900 ft/sec) and others are meant to be used below 2900 ft/sec.

    neusch303
    Posts: 539
    November 24, 2012 at 2:55 pm #127303

    We really like harder bullets like the Swift A-Frame, Nosler Partition and Scirocco II bullets.

    johnee
    Posts: 731
    November 24, 2012 at 6:02 pm #127307

    I’m thinking the same as 2506. You’ve told us what isn’t happening, now let’s get down to what IS happening:

    1. Are you finding bullet fragments in the deer?

    2. You say these are handloads. What’s the recipie? What bullet, what powder, how many grains of powder?

    3. Can you (or whoever loaded these for you) pull a bullet and verify the weight of the powder?

    I’m suspecting bullet fragmentation. It could be bad bullets or just the wrong choice of bullets, it could also be that the bullet is just being overdriven. There tends to be an obession with velocity these days and more speed isn’t necessairly better.

    Tell us more about the loads and I’ll be we can narrow down the cause.

    Grouse

    sipple31
    West Central Sconni
    Posts: 427
    November 24, 2012 at 8:25 pm #127311

    Thanks for the ideas guys! My uncle who is an Olympic target shooter loaded them for me. Has the best equipment but may not know hunting bullets the best.

    Sorry I do not know fragmentation yet… butchering tonight. Attached pic is the load data. Also do not know specifically what softpoint they are.

    thanks again!

    bob_bergeson
    cannon falls
    Posts: 2798
    November 24, 2012 at 8:33 pm #127312

    Wow! You guys really know allot about this topic! I own quite a few guns and have only handloaded shot gun shells.always wanted to know more about center fire rifle reloding. The only input i have is that when I went to the 300 ultra mag with federal premium 180 grain Barnes bullets they drop when drop when I pull the trigger. I have a 7mm mag. That I would like to. set up for wild thang so any suggestions would be awesome

    johnee
    Posts: 731
    November 24, 2012 at 10:00 pm #127315

    Quote:

    Thanks for the ideas guys! My uncle who is an Olympic target shooter loaded them for me. Has the best equipment but may not know hunting bullets the best.

    Sorry I do not know fragmentation yet… butchering tonight. Attached pic is the load data. Also do not know specifically what softpoint they are.

    Yowser! I strongly suspect you are blowing up the bullets!

    I’m assuming the powder is H414 (Hogdon). If that is so, at 54 grains, you are a full half grain OVER the maximum load of 53.5 grains. That will produce a velocity of over 3025 FPS.

    My data, BTW, is from the IMR website, parent company of Hogdon. There is NO H414 load for a 130 grain that recommends more than 53.5 grains regardless of bullet brand.

    That’s hot, baby! Damn hot. And too hot for my taste, thank you very much.

    414 is a spherical powder similar to the Winchesters like 760. It has similar burn characteristics to the old school 4350 and is known as a standby powder for the .30-06.

    But here’s the key: This powder tends to be more widely used with larger calibers from .30 all the way up to .375 H&H.

    My suspician is that you are over-driving the lighter .270 bullets by going with this hot of a charge of powder. Now I understand that the maximum loads are recommendations and can, under certain cirmstances, be exceeded.

    However! You can, I will certainly NOT! And sure as hell NOT when I’m loading for someone else’s gun.

    I think you should investigate very carefully what you uncle was thinking and what data he was using when he cooked up this load for you before you fire any more of these loads. He may have been reading off the wrong line of data or he may have old data that has since been revised. Hopefully, he is not just adding a half grain for good measure.

    Either way, I’m not a fan of the recipie that’s been cooked up for you and I’d say investigate and proceed with caution. If in doubt, throw them out–meaning have the bullets pulled and start over.

    Grouse

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13663
    November 25, 2012 at 12:01 am #127318

    I’m a die-hard .270 WIN & 270 WSM guy. My lyman manual has that listed at 54.0 grs max and I have another manual showing it at 55.5 compressed. First and foremost, are you seeing any pressure damage to the case? Nickel is harder than brass and normally doesn’t show the signs as easily and withstands higher pressure.
    As Wade mentioned, the bullet is highly fragmenting if your not getting a pass-through. My primary hunting bullet is the Barnes TTSX 130gr. At 500yrds, I get a devastating looking pass through with minimal fragments.
    As a comparison to what your shooting, think about archery. 275-300 fps with a 100gr broadhead will pass through a deer at 30 yrds. Your pushing a bullet at 3000fps + and no pass through?? Sounds like a mighty soft target bullet to me.
    Back to your original question – YES I want a pass through that sends a shock wave and damages everything in it path. I want blood pouring out of each side and to see a hole that i could never imagine having in me. Ya, sounds a bit morbid, but i want to kill an animal as fast as I can. If it moves 20 yrds from where I shot it, I want a painted highway leading up to it. I am 100% about the recovery on anything I shoot and I want it down fast. Doesn’t mean you need to shoot them with a 338 lupa, just need a good pathway of devastation.

    tom_gursky
    Michigan's Upper Peninsula(Iron Mountain)
    Posts: 4751
    November 25, 2012 at 1:33 am #127321

    Quote:

    Doesn’t mean you need to shoot them with a 338 lupa,

    No. but Olivia would!

    sipple31
    West Central Sconni
    Posts: 427
    November 25, 2012 at 1:59 am #127326

    Jeez, tons of good info. I appreciate it guys. Easy to see I have an issue here. 270 should be plenty to power through a whitetail cavity, no matter what grain bullet. These must be some soft target bullets. Although hot, they shoot like a dream through my Savage. No signs of stress anywhere. Not sure I will bug my uncle to reload more. The Hornady 140 gr SST Superperformance is catching my eye as something I may want to try. My father-in-law shoots the SST through his 30 TC (amazing caliber by the way), and it just totally devastates deer.

    johnee
    Posts: 731
    November 25, 2012 at 2:12 am #127329

    Quote:

    I’m a die-hard .270 WIN & 270 WSM guy. My lyman manual has that listed at 54.0 grs max and I have another manual showing it at 55.5 compressed.

    How old is your Lyman manual?

    Personally, given the fact that the manufacturer’s current max loads for all 130 gr. bullets are no greater than 53.5, I’d be very wary of other data that exceeds that figure. As you say, a nickle case can take more and also this isn’t the highest pressure load in the lineup, but still why push it that hard?

    I rarely find that the max load produces the best accuracy.

    Switch bullets and lower the powder charge a little. All will be well.

    Grouse

    flatfish
    Rochester, MN
    Posts: 2105
    November 25, 2012 at 3:50 am #127333

    Well Sip,
    I too agree with what’s being said here. And with out even knowing what bullet your using, it’s way to hot a load, and that nice little Savage you have isn’t gonna last long.

    I think your idea of going with those Hornady 140’s is a great idea.
    Good luck…

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