Remington 700 Sendero 7mm Rem Mag…

  • whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #210290

    Sorry, this is a fairly specific question…

    Does anyone out there own and shoot a Remington 700 Sendero in 7mm Rem Mag???

    If so, do you shoot factory loads? What factory loads have you found that this gun seems to like the best?

    It is very new… And shoots around MOA right now with the few factory loads I’ve tried… Just wondering what to try next to try to get 1/2 MOA results if possible (short of hand loading).

    … And I realize your gun’s and my gun’s results certainly may vary everything else being equal….

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13663
    #126455

    I hand load for 2 sendato 7mm mags. Loads for each gun are identicle. Found the lands is shallower than I find in most rifles. Slower loads have produced best in my experience.Don’t need as much pressurewith the shorter jump. Very nice rifle btw!!!!

    whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #126456

    Randy – thanks for the response!

    — Can you give me exact speeds and bullet types / weights that have worked well in your “Sendero experiences”? That might be very helpful to me…

    BTW, I also read your other post on gun break-in (nice post on your Tikka load workup, BTW) — quick question… I get that you don’t want to heat up the barrel during break in… But what about post break-in? What happens to the barrel during break in that makes it resistant to damage if it gets heated up later in life??

    Thanks again!!!!!

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13663
    #126467

    whittsend, I’m not an expert on metals and still learning. After I have about 40 to 50 rounds through, I heat’r up and let it cool down. What was explained to me is that the metal gets a form or sense of temper to it and it won’t walk as bad. It also prolongs the life of the barrel. I have a few rifles that are into the many thousand rounds through them with no problems, so I believe in the procedure. I know of guys that take them out of the box and let the lead rip. Only time can tell and if your dropping 1200 to 1600 on a rifle, what is a few extra boxes of shells?

    As for load Data, here is a buddy’s from my log. I didn’t post all of it, but the key things are there to compare to.

    Tim W. Rem Sed.7mm Mag
    Optic = Burris XTR 416
    Case = Win Brass
    Trim = 2.490
    Prime = Fed-GM215M
    Barrel = 26″
    Twist = 1:9.25
    Bullet – Barnes 150 TTSX
    B.C. = 0.408
    S.D. = 0.266
    Powder = H4831
    Charge = 66.9grs
    Seating = .042
    Chrony = 2970f/s
    Zero = 200
    325yrds = -6.75
    100 MOA = .816

    I tried the 140gr TSX and didn’t get a satisfactory sub MOA. We also worked up a load in the 160 TSX but could not match book specs for performance.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13663
    #126473

    Also, are you shooting on bags or a lead sled? What is your tripper set at? For myself, I tend to pull to the right(right handed) when the trigger is set for more than 3.5#

    Two factory loads I would try Barnes VorTX & Hornady 8063, 7 mm Remington Mag, Boat Tail Soft Point, 162 GR, 2940 fps

    What has patterned the best so far for you? I don’t shoot a lot of factory ammo anymore other than obtaining brass.

    whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #126480

    Randy –

    Thanks for all of your info!

    Like I said, I’ve probably only fired 20 or 30 rounds through it at the most… Not quite following the barrel break-in that you described (am wishing I had), but I also let it cool for the most part between shots… So I don’t think it heated up too badly… And I’ve given it a number of good cleanings…

    Anyway, most rounds have patterned similarly at 100 yards so far. I’m going to my buddy’s range today to test it at 200, 300 and 400 – although I don’t think its going to be dead calm here today, so not ideal conditions, but we’ll see.

    So far I have tried some Hornady Superformance (stated to have a MV 200 fps higher than “normal” loads) and they have probably patterned the worst… 1.5″ 3 shot groups at 100 yds. I was shooting the 162g SST, and I also have a box of 154g superformance SST to try. The Remington Accutip 150g boat tail seemed to shoot very well until it sent a few “fliers” (I had two bullets touching each other times 2… which was great – but out of the 4 bullets I sent, 2 touched in two places, 1.5 inches apart… So not sure what to think about that)… Could just have been shooter error, I suppose.

    Win power point 150 g gave about a 1.5″ group and Federal 150g soft pts gave two groups – the first 1.3″ and the second closer to 1.

    Yes, I am shooting from a lead sled…. Trigger is set as light as I can set it myself. Haven’t measured lbs, I would guess at 3.5 or 4 +/_.

    If/when I get into reloading, I’ll have to give you a shout for more info. Maybe when the kids get older. Until then, I very much appreciate all of your help and info… I’ll try to post my results when I get some good ones.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13663
    #126491

    Totally guessing, but I’m thinking the “flyers” came for the warm barrel or cleaning. Based on what you described, your finding the same thing we did when working up loads for the 2 that I load for. The slower rounds produced the best groups out of those rifles. Naturally, every individual rifle varies, but I do see the consistency.
    My problem with Remington ammo is the variance in chronographed performance. Howver, you may want to look at the 150 or 160 gr in the 2870-2950 fps range. A bit slower, but it may pull the sub MOA your looking for the shorter distances 350 and under. Regardless, a 150gr bullet out of that gun at 500yrds will still pack a heck of a punch.
    RCBS is running a great rebate program for equipment

    Just a suggestion on cleaning. You stated “given it a number of good cleanings…” The first rounds you put through are filling the imperfections from cutting the rifling. With most rifles, you will notice as you get more rounds through them, the group often will tighten up some. Unless the barrel is getting fouled up, I just swab it clean with a patch and glass cleaner. It takes the carbon and debris out, but the micro shavings of the bullet that fill the imperfections remain. So other than cleaning out the garbage (carbon/powder residue), I wouldn’T be too concerned on excessively cleaning it.
    Jeff H is a great source for long range shooting and I would hope that he jumps in and gives a few suggestions. It may contradict some of what I stated, but he knows his pea-shooters

    whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #126545

    Thanks again…

    I did get out and shoot a number of rounds through it today… Some rounds were ok, and a few had impressive results, although I probably wasn’t as thorough as some of you guys probably are… I tried to give the gun plenty of time between shots to cool off. I had about 4 or 5 types of ammo to try and wanted to give them each at least 3 shots… I was also shooting my .243 side by side with it (Rem 700 SPS varmint), which is more accurate than I can be almost regardless of ammo type (love that gun!

    Anyway, I’ll try to get my results scanned in and posted. Funny thing – The other day it didn’t seem to like the Hornady SST 162 g quite as much (at 100yds)… But today I had some Hornady superformancy SST 154g… Seemed to like them best to the tune of just over half MOA at 200 and again at 400. I did not try your recommended bullets yet, Randy – I only shot what I already had today… – but that will be next on the list.

    I also tested out my B&C reticle a little at 400. The “10 mph wind drift compensating crosshair” was pretty much right on… I had a little less than 10 mph 90 degree cross wind and I ended up very darn close to right on…

    Of course, its needs more shooting… But I’m happy so far!!

    whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #126546

    This is from the 7mm. 200 yards, 8 mph 90 degree cross wind.

    The Hornady Superformance 154g SST seemed to shoot well. The cheap Federals that I had seemed to shoot ok as well, but for some reason I only put two of those rounds through it. Will have to do more testing later. The Hornady was about 1.5″ with 4 shots at 200 yards… Could have been worse, I suppose.

    whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #126547

    This was a 2 shot “group” at 400 yards. Same ~8mph cross wind. I used the B&C reticle on my Leupold scope. I used both the 400 yard “holdover hash” as well as the 10mph wind drift hash mark… And I was darn close. About a 2.5″ “group” at 400 yards… Seems like a good start!


    whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #126548

    I also shot my .243 for kicks at 200… Results seemed good…

    I shot it also at 300, but didn’t account for wind drift… Unfortunately I was using a smaller target, so I didn’t actually hit paper… But I found a 3 shot group in the wood that SHOULD have been exactly where they would have hit in theory and there were no other bullet holes within 5 inches… (Although I can’t say for certain… I realize without proof its part speculation) – anyway, that group at 300 yards was about 3/4″…. I’ll have to re-test that shot later.

    The cheap Federal’s seemed to win the day in the .243 this morning…

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13663
    #126629

    Looks like your finding a couple loads that you can have confidence in. More so, looks like your having a lot of fun and will soon be hand loading
    I still get the rush from tweaking a load and having it all come together. I have final hunting load for this year worked up on my Tikka 270wsm. 200 yrd site in. I noticed when I get up to about 6 rounds and the barrel is very warm, I walk up to the left. Still, well under a MOA, so bring on the whitetail next week!

    jeff_heeg
    Marshfield WI.
    Posts: 479
    #126707

    To cover a few things

    For the most part the 7mm mag’s tend to like the 160s , floating any ware from the high 50s to mid 60s. Somewhere in this range you will find a forgiving accurate bullet. You should end up with a load that should be consistent and user friendly with wind calls and corrections.

    Once you have gotten past the first 20 rounds which mattering on the gun, barrel manufacture will dictate the importance as to how to get through those first 20, and then life goes on.

    Examples of this would be

    My 338 LM Barrett

    Was to run 5 down the tube and then clean, repeat this step and run another 20 rounds and clean again. Then run’er until the accuracy shows signs of falling off. This will be around 400 – 500 rounds give or take. But note after a good cleaning it will take another 10-20 to get back to what it’s capable and that being a consistent ½ to ¼ moa rifle hitting intended targets well past 1760 yards

    My 260 with a Brux barrel (a sweet heart) or any manufactured rifle off the shelf as well would have a patch or two ran down until clear. This is done every shot for the first 5 to 10 rounds watching the rifling marks in the patch, you will see if there is any snags or burrs in the rifling by the dirt residue and if cleaned every shot you should see the dirty snag disappear as the rifling is burnished in and gone, the ruff areas become smooth and the pit marks tend to be filled. This leads to consistency, accuracy as well as a barrel that cleans fast when needed and fouls out in a longer period time shooting.

    Then life goes on, most guns and they all tend to have their own personality will tend to shoot good at this point but yet the groups will tend to be good one day and another start to open up and possibly even have pressure signs starting to show. From what I have seen it takes a good 100 rounds to break in a barrel, we tend to call this a barrel ramping up, settling in or a barrel that burnished in. Velocities slowly tend to rise as well as the feeling that one needs to clean the barrel do to possibly be fouled but it’s all about the barrel settling in. Re-tweaking a load some or trying a factory load that was marginal prior may be the load that the gun wants to shoot at this point and shoot well.

    So the point is shoot what is fairly accurate, get some trigger time on the gun and then after hitting the 100 round mark, try a few different loads and see if you can turn your 1 moa rifle into a ½ to ¼” moa gun.

    After cleaning a gun throw some foulers down the barrel, some may only take a few shots and some may require 10 to 20 rounds to settle back in and be spot on. Many folks get confused when after cleaning a gun and going back to the range they can’t hit as tight as before. Then folks start to get frustrated and slide down hill fast versus keeping an open mind and watching the groups come back after shooting some. After that when all is well shoot and shoot some more. As I stated mine don’t get touched until around 400-500 rounds you will know when it’s ready. Everyone has a different idea as to when to clean and how, this is just mine and many also do the same

    There are a lot of variables that makes a gun shoot well, mechanical and operational and even the best shooters can have a ruff day so don’t beat your self up.

    Your groups watch your verticals the tighter your vertical dispersion the better. The windage (lefts and rights) can be caused by cross winds down range or a tight grip with your trigger hand as well as not coming straight back with the trigger then holding until the shot recoil is complete.

    If you know the shot is perfect without a doubt with the wind and shot sequence and you have repeating targets of the same load showing a horizontal string then and only then I would consider a different powder choice, otherwise all powder adjustments and variances will show up with a vertical report.

    Also before throwing in the towel on a load especially now after you have been shooting this some, check and torque your action screws, base screws and scope ring screws.

    Hang a plumb line out at a 100 yards or even closer and check to see that your scope reticule is true and square with the plumb line after checking that your gun is level. Once you know that is on add a scope or rifle level or just take a small level bubble and mount it below your scope. If you use a small level bubble in a tube, roll it and watch what the bubbles does, you may even have to mark it because it’s amazing how many of them aren’t perfect either. The bubble reference is nice to have to check when you’re shooting out at 300- 400 yards and beyond it eliminates any possibility of canting your gun and causing left or right hits

    Again I would hang in the 160 gr range so 155 to 165 find what she likes (use 5 round groups) this weeds out bad shots better and if anything set up multiple targets and rotate your shots one brand or grain one on one target and another on its own, but shoot one shot with the 154 gr then one with the 160 and then one with the 165 then back to the 154 and again for an example. This keeps the playing field fair as far as weather conditions, barrel warm up and operator fatigue.

    Once you find a load that holds tight vertical groups check it against what came in second again just to prove to yourself that the results are the ammo and not influenced by the operator

    Hope some of this is of use

    Good luck

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13663
    #126783

    Jeff, as always, Great info!!

    whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #126803

    Thanks, guys for all of your time and info on these posts…

    Jeff – After break-in, etc, when the gun is shooting how you like it, am I to assume, then, that you don’t really clean the barrel much… Pretty much only after it show signs of groups breaking down? Or do you run an occassional patch of some sort of cleaner (powder solvent, window cleaner, or otherwise) — and how often?

    Thanks for the info guys.. Good luck if you are hunting the WI opener this weekend!

    jeff_heeg
    Marshfield WI.
    Posts: 479
    #126832

    Quote:


    Thanks, guys for all of your time and info on these posts…

    Jeff – After break-in, etc, when the gun is shooting how you like it, am I to assume, then, that you don’t really clean the barrel much… Pretty much only after it show signs of groups breaking down? Or do you run an occassional patch of some sort of cleaner (powder solvent, window cleaner, or otherwise) — and how often?

    Thanks for the info guys.. Good luck if you are hunting the WI opener this weekend!


    That all depends on how often I shoot it

    For the most part if I am shooting every week, few weeks or every month I just put it away, if it’s going to sit for an extended amount of time I will run a damp patch of Bore Tech Eliminator down the pipe then run a dry patch through it before using it again.

    If I am shooting an event, just shooting steel at home or hunting with it while it’s raining good I will dry the barrel out by firing a few off then I will wipe her down let it air dry, sometimes I even use the hair dryer with cool to warm air to blast or dry out the tight spots if needed. Then finish it off with one of the above depending when it will be used next.

    Otherwise I have had real good luck with cleaning the bore and chamber area with Bore Tech Eliminator. There are a lot of good products available, this is just one that I was turned onto and seems be a great product for cleaning as well as coating the inside of the barrel when the gun is not being used for a while.

    life1978
    Eau Claire , WI
    Posts: 2790
    #126845

    Wi. IDO shoot sometime would be fun!

    jeff_heeg
    Marshfield WI.
    Posts: 479
    #126893

    Quote:


    Wi. IDO shoot sometime would be fun!


    Always a great time pulling the trigger.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13663
    #126907

    Since there is a good number of guys on here from Western WI, eastern MN, maybe we’ll have to look at an IDO wild game feed for a few of us at my farm in early summer?????

    whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #127158

    Well, it wasn’t a 400 yard shot or anything, but the new 7mm was successfully de-virginized Saturday morning with a 1 1/2 or 2 1/2 y.o. doe…

    Thanks again, guys…

    jeff_heeg
    Marshfield WI.
    Posts: 479
    #127212

    Quote:


    Well, it wasn’t a 400 yard shot or anything, but the new 7mm was successfully de-virginized Saturday morning with a 1 1/2 or 2 1/2 y.o. doe…

    Thanks again, guys…


    Congrats

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13663
    #127319

    Meat in the freezer! Congrats!!!!

    whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #127641

    Quote:


    Looks like your finding a couple loads that you can have confidence in. More so, looks like your having a lot of fun and will soon be hand loading


    Randy… it didn’t take long! LOL…

    A buddy of mine just acquired all the “stuff” to get this done. I just need a dye for the 7mm. He should have everything else that I can get started with… I’ll probably reoload some .243 rounds for my 700 SPS as well…

    Randy, as far as that Sendero goes, you said you worked up some really nice loads for a buddy of yours… I cut and past what you posted here previously:

    As for load Data, here is a buddy’s from my log. I didn’t post all of it, but the key things are there to compare to.

    Tim W. Rem Sed.7mm Mag
    Optic = Burris XTR 416
    Case = Win Brass
    Trim = 2.490
    Prime = Fed-GM215M
    Barrel = 26″
    Twist = 1:9.25
    Bullet – Barnes 150 TTSX
    B.C. = 0.408
    S.D. = 0.266
    Powder = H4831
    Charge = 66.9grs
    Seating = .042
    Chrony = 2970f/s
    Zero = 200
    325yrds = -6.75
    100 MOA = .816

    I tried the 140gr TSX and didn’t get a satisfactory sub MOA. We also worked up a load in the 160 TSX but could not match book specs for performance.

    Any other info that might be pertinent if/when I head over to his place to work up some loads? I know he has 4 or 5 different types of powder – I’ll have to see if that powder that he has matches what you have used… or buy some of my own… (or try them all…)

    Thanks again!!

    Mike

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13663
    #127653

    1. Safety
    2. SAFEty
    3. SAFETY
    4. Re-read man laws 1 through 3!!!
    5. Constancy
    6. NO DISTRACTIONS
    7. Don’t rush (I made a few of these mistakes. Lucky I didn’t blow my head apart)

    Without knowing what “all the stuff” is, I’ll toss out a few things randomly you need and should consider.
    Hornady Comparator with the proper inserts.
    http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Comparator-Set-Body-and-14-Bullet-Inserts-1-Each/

    Bullet puller
    http://www.hornady.com/store/Cam-Lock-Bullet-Puller-1-Each

    Brass Prep – It is so critical to be consistent. Read, READ, and re-READ manuals. I like the Lyman and Barnes manuals, but you really need to read a couple of them. Its beneficial to own 3 or 3 different manuals.

    Follow the instructions of setting up your dies.

    Sizing – Case lube is your friend. You don’t need to drown it or have so much that it runs down the side of the brass. Every 10 to 15, I’ll put a drop directly on the rim of the brass to hit the neck sizer. Having a cordless drill, drill, tap, bolt/washer handy, and wrench near by will inevitably be used someday.
    Seating bullets – start, lift the arm and rotate 90 degrees, and press further, lift rotate 90 degrees and press more. I found by seating my bullets while rotating them and multiple strokes, I get a LOT less flyers.

    If you know someone that is a veteran loader, seek their assistance. But never trust 100% what they say – Remember Rule #1?,2?, and 3

    flatfish
    Rochester, MN
    Posts: 2105
    #127664

    Great advice there Randy…
    Safety always! Otherwisehappens!
    Agree multiple manuals are good. I have all but the newest Hornady, also Sierra and Lyman.
    Case prep I think is critical, time consuming yes, but truly necessary.

    Your tip of rotating cartridge as you seat the bullet > I have never tried that but you can bet I’m going to

    Good tips…thanks

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