Back against the wall.

Lets say your in a familar area and the hour is reasonable. A couple of punks come from behind you and attack. You have good awareness, and duck out of the way. The initail punch to the back of head is just a glancing blow. The force of the perps. swing gets him off balance and his partner is standing back not advancing at this point. You have that split second to get into a defensive poster before the first attacker rushes you again.
You have a right to carry permit. At this time do you
1. draw and shoot
2. show the weapon to scare them away
3. leave your weapon concealed and go hand to hand

leave the weapon concealed, and say I have a gun and am trained to use it, and prepared to do so.

Not an option, You have the split second before the attacker is on you again.

I would have to say no. 2 at this point I don`t see that they have an actual weapon but I fear bodily harm. If I would of seen a knife then no. 1

I’d go #3 until I see a weapon then go directly to #1.

#3 dead people don’t talk. In my eyes blindsiding someone with a punch is as good as pulling a knife on me, but it really comes down to if you fear for your life.

#2, but if they keep coming once it’s drawn, they have given you no choice but to fire. I’m not sure what the law is, but anyone that accosts another without provocation is subject to any means of self defense by the victim in my book.

#3 until you can see that you have no choice but to draw your weapon. This is a very tough question for me… I tend to have a temper and have no respect whatsoever for people who are out to harm innocent victims. If I was in the wrong mood, I could see myself going to jail for a very long time….which would make me no better than them in the first place. Besides still breathing air.

You back up fast and look for a weapon in their hand alway protecting the side you carry on. Keeping distance, if they come at you then you make the decision. RUN IF YOU CAN! Using your weapon or yelling you have one is the last this to do here. Yell for help first LOUDLY. Shooting someone is not something you want to live with the rest of your life. If you can get away, run. If you make the decision to draw your weapon be prepared for what comes next. A lot of bad guys are not going run but if they do great. That does not mean your not going to be questioned by police. I’ve carried every day since 2004 and worked security, not one time have I ever had to draw my weapon or tell someone I have one. And yes I’ve been in those situations. On the corner of lake st and lyndale at 2am. I hope no one ever has to experience anything like what your describing but being aware of your surrounding at all times and carrying yourself in away that looks like you know how to handle yourself goes along way. If you have to draw your weapon and use it you better had about $50,000 in the bank ready for the aftermath. I prey none of you would ever have to make this split second decision. You or someone else’s life and family will de affected for ever. Please take a CCW coarse from a good,reputable company or person and read a lot on the legal right to carry.

I wrote this this way to make people understand that it a HUGE responsibility carrying every day and should not be taken lightly. God forbid any of us had to use it to save the life of a family member or our own.

I dont know. Instinct will be in charge of my response.

Depending on the circumstances of the physical location. Lighting, can I see the attackers well? Can I get away or am I cornered?

I would never go hand to hand unless I was forced against my will. I do not want the attacker to possibly gain momentum and take my weapon.

I would announce loudly as I draw my weapon, you come a step closer and I’ll shoot. Aim center mass. Keep and eye on both attackers move accordingly so they can’t flank you. Try to get away from the situation as quickly as possible.

Remember this phrase when the cops show up. “Officer, I feared for my life. Please get me an attorney.” Shut your mouth and wait for your attorney.

I hope I never know what it’s like to kill a fellow man, however if I’m put into this position, I’m not sure I’ll harbor much guilt.

The #1 rule of self defense, don’t put yourself into situations that are likely to get you into trouble.

I’d say #2. I would not wait until I saw a weapon to draw mine. That delay could cost you your life. I’ve always told people who have thought about getting a carry permit to only do so if they are ready to use a gun if necessary. As far as what would happen legally after I’d not worry one bit about that. Better to be alive and take your chances in court than to be dead. Just remember in a jury trial you only need 1 person who has been the victim of a crime on the jury. In todays time that should not be to hard.

Well said koot.

Option 4. Carry pepper spray as a back up also for when a gun is too much.

Its dark out but you can see your attackers. You just walked out of a corner cafe. You checked in oth directions as you walked out but the 2 attackers must have been around the corner. You know the area and never had any problems there. It seemed they came out of nowhere. You were aware enough that the first blow from behind was glancing. It came from your left side and you ducked to the right and went into a combat stance. The attacker stepped with his punch so he end up in front of you but to your left. The split second decision comes as he pivots to face you. At the same time he pivots, he is loading up his right for a haymaker.
During all of this you did catch a glimpse of the 2nd guy who is about 4 paces away and not advancing at this time.
The guy loading up for the haymaker is within striking distance, he can get that puch to your head. You have buildings behind to your right and the perps block both directions to run.
Its time to defend. Now what?

You’d better be a practicing fighter if you expect to go hand to hand and last more than 10 seconds. Most people that carry do so for a reason. If you choose (wisely) to end this as soon as possible, understand that no one is forcing you to shoot to kill. If you’ve got 12 rounds or more in a 9mm, blow a couple at their feet if you’re too afraid to go for the kill. If you’re afraid for your life, #1, you’re being attacked. No one can properly defend the notion that no harm was meant so long as a hesitant 2nd party can testify that his buddy was attacking.

There’s a BIG difference in being ATTACKED vs. being APPROACHED. If the attack is on, a professional fighter once advised me that it’s not about kickin’ someone’s tail. It’s about getting out of there asap and flee if possible. Otherwise, it’s go for the END….whatever that takes.

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You’d better be a practicing fighter if you expect to go hand to hand and last more than 10 seconds. Most people that carry do so for a reason. If you choose (wisely) to end this as soon as possible, understand that no one is forcing you to shoot to kill. If you’ve got 12 rounds or more in a 9mm, blow a couple at their feet if you’re too afraid to go for the kill. If you’re afraid for your life, #1, you’re being attacked. No one can properly defend the notion that no harm was meant so long as a hesitant 2nd party can testify that his buddy was attacking.

There’s a BIG difference in being ATTACKED vs. being APPROACHED. If the attack is on, a professional fighter once advised me that it’s not about kickin’ someone’s tail. It’s about getting out of there asap and flee if possible. Otherwise, it’s go for the END….whatever that takes.

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Where the H-ll did you come from!!!!!!
Nice to see you around!!

Nice kid!! And yep, I’m too old and chunky to fight anymore!!

My response is the same. Announce my intentions as I’m drawing. However I’m not sure I can draw fast enough if the attacker is close enough to punch. If that is the case, it’s time to do my best to put to some distance between me and him. One rule I learned long ago. There are no rules when it comes to fighting especially if it happens to involve the loss of my life!

My response would still be the same. Once drawn and the perp kept coming, say goodbye your dead. If I was not able to clear my side arm ( if the guy isn`t 6`4 and 250 lbs ) I would try to run thru him knocking him down (hopefully) or at least off balance to give me time to clear or get into a position once drawn to back away, shoot or run. There really is a lot options, dive off to the side to avoid the next swing until it actually happens. It really is a good idea to think about this so a person more reacts instead of having to say … a sir wait a minute I have to decide what I need to do.

I have no qualms about shooting another person trying to harm me for no apparent reason. The perp does not care about my life why should I care about his.

Yeah, there’s a lot of options…..but only one to be decided in one second or sooner! This is my point….unless you walk around expecting the unexpected (paranoid), reactions without training and practice are not very reliable.

It’s so easy to sit here and contemplate what we’d do but until you’re actually in it, Lord only knows. There’s so many “ifs”. But, most of us aren’t ready for this stuff. SPEED is key. How many of us actually practice a regular fitness program let alone something combative in nature?

I know my brain is ready for a lot but my body is WAAAAAAY slower than my brain these days and I’d better hope I’m smart enough to gauge the difference for a positive outcome. High level, bone breaking, split second techniques are really what we need to learn, and then practice, practice, practice….along with some regular cardio training. Get with people that can kick your tail in multiple ways and learn and practice. It can make a difference.

It’s been decades since I’ve been jumped but it’s happened before….twice, and I’m 2-0. In both encounters, I was completely blindsided and honestly, no time to draw a weapon had I had one. The first encounter was over in less than 25 seconds with my attacker left lying on the ground recouping from a neck injury and his two toadies too scared to move. The second one ran off after seeing my reaction to what he thought was an impenetrable offense.
I was at ages 18 and 23 respectively. Both encounters were in public areas with no shortage of witnesses. Both, completely from my backside.

I’m tellin ya, I’m nobody’s tough guy and I’m not braggin’ here. I sought training and lived in that training for a few years and got lucky the two times I needed it. END IT….whatever that takes, is the greatest advice I’ve ever been given. No rules is right….whoever posted that. END IT. The only reason I’m 2-0 is good fortune. I was lucky enough to have both the mental and physical training to have a chance of surviving. No weapons involved or I might’ve been wasted before I could even react. The brain is still sharp but at 43 and nowhere near my former athletic prowess, my body could let me down just tryin’ to make one of those aggressive moves!

I don’t know what would happen anymore but Lord knows I’d go down trying to survive….whatever that takes.

Hey kid, what type of training?

By the time I was 18 I had wrestling, tae-kwondo, judo, and a touch of boxing. Feeling that classes and their instruction would only teach you so much, I befriended others in my community that held various belts/levels of ju-jistsu, japanese karate, greko-roman wrestling, and kick boxing. As a collective group, we’d actually practice different scenarios and posibilities. We also would share our varied training on what we thought would be applicable and work through the possibilities in “slow-mo” just to get our minds to see what really could be done…..or for that matter, strongly avoided. It exposed both strengths and weaknesses in our techniques and ideas and geared us for quick, decisive action that we had “tested” to be a strong percentage outcome. We worked back side, ground attacks, peripheral angles…..anything we could imagine. We created drills and ran them past our respective trainers for advisement. We actually created form of MMA by cross training and referencing and we all felt we were improved “fighters” (for lack of a better term….our goal was self-defense survival) because we weren’t held to one form and regulated sparing and/or competitions. We left conditioning up to each individual and chose running, roller blading, and long distance bicycling for fitness but got “too busy” after age 27 (got lazy….) to stay at the level I’d kept up. All the combative allegences were broken up by the time I turned 24….wives, careers, kids…..and the like….just life… got things to a point that we just didn’t make time for it anymore.

I did have to friends that went on to black belts in some form of submissions art but I can’t remember what they called it….I just remember those guys could kill me at will and I learned a lot from them!

Ken Patera used to operate a gym in North St.Paul where he catered to fighters and sought to groom anyone interested in professional wrestling and it was he, along with the other guys in that shop, that really opened my eyes to the conditioning aspect of fighting. I knew from high school wrestling how long 6 minutes could feel but in wrestling, you’re never forced to absorb punches or kicks in addition to your own exersions. So in our practices, we would take time to just allow ourselves some physical abuse. Yes, we wore gloves (and pads if we had them) but we’d take turns being a punching bag or somebody’s throw doll. You can’t really condition a jaw…..you either get cracked beyond your tolerance or you don’t so we focused on body blows and arm and leg attacks.

I’ve often thought of getting involved with it again but I think I’m just wanting my youth back. You get hurt doing this stuff and I just don’t heal like I used to….plus, my new job at McLane MN is physically demanding so I don’t want to jeopardize my ability to work. As for the mental drills, I still work with a couple of cousins from time to time and I try to stay up on the UFC guys. If I woulda had a Gracie in my neighborhood, I would have been about as well rounded as what the guys training today are! I love seeing what the Brazilian/Gracie jui-jitsu brings to the table! However, I don’t have the flexibility (anymore) to do half of those techniques. It’s still good to put it in the brain though!

Work this out mentally…….

You have long hair, you’re sitting in a chair at a table, with your back to the aisle. Someone comes from behind, grabs your hair, and starts pulling for all they’re worth, dragging you up and out of the chair and onto the ground. When you hit the floor, you have a support beam on your left and another table and chairs with occupants on your right. You don’t know who’s doing this to you but it’s clear the situation is serious. The actions of your attacker have you on your back and they have control of your head. What’s your next move???

With 2 attackers.. #3 is out, unless your Chuck Norris. #2 works only if there is time, as does #1… yell forcefully & loud, you just came out of a cafe… somebody should be in there. Do your best to block the advance and get back into the cafe… call police. If all else fails, leave no witness, no shots in the back.

Bad situation you got into there “kid”. The first mistake was sitting with your back to aisle and not being aware of your surrondings. Since the attack already happen, the first thing you have to do is grab the attackers hands and and keep them on the back of your head. Now the attacker can’t keep control by pulling your hair. You then can rotate and get off your back and face your attacker.
OK “kid”, where does the fight go from here?

I was actually doing a gig when this came up….when building PR, you can’t always pick your chair. Not to mention, I’m part of the entertainment and befriended by over half the attendees….one doesn’t expect to have to watch his back under these conditions…..but life can turn it’s ugly head anywhere…..

You’re on track with my next move Don. I didn’t know who or why but I’m being dragged by the hair. I reached up for an arm and pulled to take the pressure off the head and used his resistance to leverage a half-spin so I could face and CHARGE my attacker. I never looked up because I figured it to be a time loss and I shot for the knees while grabbing behind the ankles. My hair was now a useless angle for him, he’s off balance, and to the ground he went. I was going for a mount and strike but he pivoted and scrambled enough that I didn’t maintain the control I desired but I was now in a position to stay on the offense and he knew it. I also had to consider I still had a show to do and my professional relationship to this establishment so when I saw his face was one of fright and flight, I just let him go.

To this day I have no idea who that guy was. The bartenders and bouncers approached me soon after to see if I was alright and I confirmed I was alright and really wanted to kill (as in pulverize) that guy but didn’t want to engage a fight in their club. They appreciated that plus, it keeps the cops and any possible charges out of the mix. It took a few gigs to relax my guard again but thankfully, I’ve never had to think on the fly (to that extent) ever since.