ammo

Got this in an email today. Hope it’s not true.

It’s already started…Ammunition Accountability Legislation.

Remember how Obama said that he wasn’t going to take your
guns? Well, it seems that his minions and allies in the anti-gun world
have no problem with taking your ammo!

The bill that is being pushed in 18 states requires all ammunition to be
encoded by the manufacturer, providing a database of all ammunition
sales. So, they will know how much you buy and what calibers.

Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009 unless the
ammunition is coded. Any privately-held uncoded ammunition must
be destroyed by July 1, 2011 (including hand-loaded ammo.) They
will also charge a .05 cent tax on every round so every box of ammo
you buy will go up at least $2.50 or more!

If they can deprive you of ammo they do not need to take your guns!

This legislation is currently pending in 18 states: Alabama,
Arizona, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky,
Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, New York,
Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, and
Washington.

Send to your friends in these states AND fight to dissolve this bill!!

To find more about the anti-gun group that is sponsoring this
legislation and the specific legislation for each state, go to:
http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm

Interested to see how much some of the dealers at the gun show in Rochester this weekend have raised their prices on certain rifles and handguns. To bad we all have to suffer for the things a few people have done. Its also to bad that the only people that will be affected by this are those, like us, that purchase their ammo and weapons legally.

I really don’t think it is aimed at “taking” away your ammunition. It is making you “accountable” for the ammo you buy. If you buy a box of rounds in assault rifle caliber and three of them are linked to some murders… the police will have a starting point to start looking. Just like firearms are serial numbered, so will ammo be. This is exactly what they do with tires and nobody is taking away your tires or truck ??? I for one refuse to be “scared” by any of the tactics that are employed to do so. So Obama did all this already, without one day in the office ???

big G

big G, you always know how to keep a level head on You.

No the dems have been working for this day for years!

I would think the only people that should have a problem with this, are the people who are careless with their ammo and criminals, rep or dem or ind. Criminals don’t like ballistics matching and DNA either This will be one more way to help solve crimes that are committed against all. I don’t see anywhere, where they are saying you can’t buy it, there are laws already stating who can’t buy it, and see no ammo quantity limits being set. It will have ZERO effect on me, so I won’t lose anymore sleep over this

big G

We will have to keep an eye on this one to see what they come up with.

SNOPES.COM

Quote:

---

I would think the only people that should have a problem with this, are the people who are careless with their ammo and criminals…

---

I would think the people that have a problem with this are the law abiding citizens that continually pay the price and toe the line with all the new tactics employed to “fight crime”. This is nothing more than another scheme dreamed up to put the pinch on legal gun owners. Thinking otherwise is naive in my opinion. If the DEATH PENALTY doesn’t deter crime serial numbering a bullet will not either. And DOT numbers to a tire does absolutely nothing to help solve a crime. DOTs identify the build date and assembly line of a tire and serves as a means to contact owners of any pending recalls.

And no Obiden is not in office yet. But because he isn’t means nothing. He has been in office and as every gun owner should know he has voted AGAINST the Second Amendment EVERY SINGLE CHANCE he had.

This micro stamping will not work one tiny bit in crime prevention or other. What it will accomplish is causing such a spike in ammo costs that casual shooters will no longer buy in the quantity they once did. Gun Haters-1 Law Abiding Gun Owners-0. As mentioned above this is another attempt at taking a bite out of the Second Amendment.

Gun control: Taking away from law abiding gun owners under the rouse of preventing additional crime. Look at New York for example. All guns sold there have to have ballistic fingerprints before being sold. Meaning they have to be fired and have the marking from the gun and bullets recorded. The thought is when a bullet or gun is recovered from a crime they can quickly and easily run the markings in a computer program to find out who owned the gun. Sounds logical right? Well after spending over 7 MILLION DOLLARS the new system solved exactly ZERO crimes! Who paid for that 7 MILLION dollars? Gun owners!

I’ll never understand why some people are willing to give a little in the name of crime prevention. When will people stop eating from the hands of politicians and think for themselves. Crime, both violent and non, has been around for centuries. It will be around for centuries to come. Guns are nothing more than a tool used to aid in a crime. Melting every single gun on earth will do NOTHING to prevent rapes, murders, robberies, and other violent crimes.

I wonder how fisherman would feel if they had to pay additional money to have their rods and reels serial numbered and registered. Maybe fishing line and lures too. In the name of crime prevention they (we) should embrace it and pay right? Then what? What if Congressman X decides 6′ medium fast spinning rods are used in more crimes than any other and should be banned. Would we say “ok” and write it off? If so what rod is next on the never ending “most popular” list?

This kind of slow death terrorism doesn’t end until We the People put an end to it. It has nothing to do with democrats versus republicans. It has to do with citizens becoming subjects.

How in the he!! am I not accountable for my ammo?

How is a criminal going to be accountable?

Can we sue the Government when people start to throw out ammo, and kids find it and get hurt? Or how about criminals going through garbage to find disposed of ammo?

So stupid.

But hey! Make the welfare laws easier! And make it worth while for the criminal idiots to move here and collect welfare dollars.

When they do that, come talk to me about my ammo.

Chris, if you are dumb enough, to not use up your old ammo in 2 years, you deserve what you get. Did you read the proposal ? How many of us, have seen a pick-up truck, parked outside the bar, with a box of rifle shells laying on the dash in clear view ? I call that being careless, accountability, would be taking the proper steps to ensure you store your ammo safely and correct. Laws are actually made for the very few, but try to protect the majority from the small minded few who do not have common sense. Now your on welfare ? I am naive…. I believe everything I read…. some people actually do, that’s what I call naive…. Sounds like we have a couple of candidates, along with serial numbered ammo, we need a couple of them chips implanted in their brains, you know the ones, that we were warned about 20 or so years ago…. the gov’t puts them in there to control our minds….

I know what DOT numbers are for, do you not think they can recall ammo ??? My point is, tires are serial numbered, but that doesn’t mean you can’t buy them anymore, or as many as you’d like…

big G

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I’ll never understand why some people are willing to give a little in the name of crime prevention. When will people stop eating from the hands of politicians and think for themselves. Crime, both violent and non, has been around for centuries. It will be around for centuries to come. Guns are nothing more than a tool used to aid in a crime. Melting every single gun on earth will do NOTHING to prevent rapes, murders, robberies, and other violent crimes.

I wonder how fisherman would feel if they had to pay additional money to have their rods and reels serial numbered and registered. Maybe fishing line and lures too. In the name of crime prevention they (we) should embrace it and pay right? Then what? What if Congressman X decides 6′ medium fast spinning rods are used in more crimes than any other and should be banned. Would we say “ok” and write it off? If so what rod is next on the never ending “most popular” list?

This kind of slow death terrorism doesn’t end until We the People put an end to it. It has nothing to do with democrats versus republicans. It has to do with citizens becoming subjects.

---

Crime has been around for centuries ????? Nice stance… OMG

Comparing rods and reels to ammunition… now I see what I and the rest of the majority are up against here….

Most people would not read a proposal such as this and somehow jump to conclusions that their rods, reels and hammers and nails will be serial numbered next…. Also, unnumbered ammo will be thrown in a garbage can, for a kid to find, I am sure the gov’t will spell out, to take it to an area with a school near it, to dispose of old ammo (this for the people I spoke of earlier, that couldn’t figure out how to burn through the old ammo in 2 years) How people can get to some of the scnearios they come up with, is beyond me. Really, laws are made, as I stated earlier, to protect the majority, from the people who really can’t seperate right from wrong, common sense from fiction, ammo form rods and reels…Some people need to get a clue….

big G

Quote:

---

Chris, if you are dumb enough, to not use up your old ammo in 2 years, you deserve what you get. Did you read the proposal ? How many of us, have seen a pick-up truck, parked outside the bar, with a box of rifle shells laying on the dash in clear view ? I call that being careless, accountability, would be taking the proper steps to ensure you store your ammo safely and correct.

---

See this is the typical liberal mentality that drives sane people crazy. Pre punish the guy that HAS NOT BROKE A LAW (Is leaving ammo in a vehicle now illegal?) in order to create a problem to solve. Isn’t breaking into someones car or house illegal? Why is the guy with ammo in his truck the careless irresponsible one? Sorry to burst your bubble but leaving ammo in a truck DOES NOT CREATE A CRIMINAL anymore than having a retail store with products on the shelves creates a shop lifter. You do understand what a criminal is don’t you? Where I come from we blame the guy that broke into someone else’s property not the property owner for temping the poor criminal. Oh what a concept!

Quote:

---

Crime has been around for centuries ????? Nice stance…

---

I assume you have intelligence that suggests otherwise? Care to share?

Quote:

---

Comparing rods and reels to ammunition… now I see what I and the rest of the majority are up against here….

Most people would not read a proposal such as this and somehow jump to conclusions that their rods, reels and hammers and nails will be serial numbered next…

---

Again very typical “these laws won’t affect me” mentality. Who thought their guns and ammo would be under attack 75-100 years ago? Damn few I’m sure. Back then people had the common sense to differentiate between a CRIMINAL and a law abiding citizen. Today, obviously, too many have lost that sense. My point is this. Because these ammo laws may not affect you (but I guarantee they will) right is still right and wrong is still wrong. Should non fisherman give a crap if new laws are being written to limit our rights to fish? What if puclic access laws are changed. Should someone who doesn’t fish or use the access even care? ABSOLUTELY! I’m sorry I can’t quite get this thought into words but I can try once more to explain it the way it first occurred to me. A few years back at a gun show some guys were talking about some newly proposed gun law. One of the guys said something to the effect that he couldn’t care less because he doesn’t use rifles, that he is a shotgun only hunter. After thinking of that for a few moments I had to ask what guns he thought they would come after if they succeeded in eliminating rifle sales. He had the dumbest look on his face I think I’ve ever seen. He just didn’t get it.

Quote:

---

Really, laws are made, as I stated earlier, to protect the majority, from the people who really can’t seperate right from wrong, common sense from fiction, ammo form rods and reels…Some people need to get a clue….

---

Some laws are sure. Speed limit laws being one of them. But can you possibly explain to me how further restricting already law abiding citizens does a single thing to prevent crimes? It amazes me that you and others fail to recognize that simple concept. And really. Stealing ammo out of a truck in front of a bar? How many hunters go to bars in Crenshaw? Common sense? Please, show me some!

Quote:

---

Also, unnumbered ammo will be thrown in a garbage can, for a kid to find, I am sure the gov’t will spell out, to take it to an area with a school near it, to dispose of old ammo

---

Oh I’m sure they will come up with a better idea that that. Liberals always do. My guess is they will come up with a way for it to cost thousands of dollars to destroy a few rounds of ammo. That way everyone can pay!

Quote:

---

(this for the people I spoke of earlier, that couldn’t figure out how to burn through the old ammo in 2 years)

---

So because some IDIOT thinks that micro stamping ammo is a good idea I suddenly have to burn up all of my cache? Is there currently a law that states we can only hang onto ammo X number of days before it is fired? Heck I have a lot of ammo that is over 40 years old. Been in spam cans since it was made. Why should I be forced to use it now? To meet some IDIOTS definition of responsible? I have countless (well not really countless, but MANY) rounds of ammo with over 40 years of proof that they did not cause crime. What evidence do these LIBERAL MORONS have to show me my ammo will be used in a crime?

If laws are all that is needed to legislate responsibility then why don’t they simply outlaw murder and rape? Maybe take it a step further and outlaw any crime that would involve a gun. There, that should fix it right? Oh that is right, criminals don’t follow laws. So instead let’s focus on restricting those that will and pretend that headway is being made. Talk about getting a clue!

I collect old ammo some of which is over 100 yrs old and worth hundreds of dollars a box. The way I read this, that ammo would have to be destroyed. I’m sure the bad guys are just dieing to get their hands on my box of Winchester .44 Henry rimfires.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Chris, if you are dumb enough, to not use up your old ammo in 2 years, you deserve what you get. Did you read the proposal ? How many of us, have seen a pick-up truck, parked outside the bar, with a box of rifle shells laying on the dash in clear view ? I call that being careless, accountability, would be taking the proper steps to ensure you store your ammo safely and correct.

---

See this is the typical liberal mentality that drives sane people crazy. Pre punish the guy that HAS NOT BROKE A LAW (Is leaving ammo in a vehicle now illegal?) in order to create a problem to solve. Isn’t breaking into someones car or house illegal? Why is the guy with ammo in his truck the careless irresponsible one? Sorry to burst your bubble but leaving ammo in a truck DOES NOT CREATE A CRIMINAL anymore than having a retail store with products on the shelves creates a shop lifter. You do understand what a criminal is don’t you? Where I come from we blame the guy that broke into someone else’s property not the property owner for temping the poor criminal. Oh what a concept!

As I stated, laws are made for them who do not know what is right or wrong. I am not saying Chris needs to be punished, I am stating the obvious, do you really think lawmakers or anyone, wants everybody to start throwing live rounds in a garbage can ??? This is called “sensationalizing” it’s what extremists do. Do you really think it is “cool” to leave ammo and guns for that matter, in plain sight ? There are people out there, who would “take advantage” of just such a scenario. So how do we prevent or minimize it ? Make people accountable. If your going to own guns and ammo, then act responsible and protect it from the less than desireable citizen, who may have other plans for it. I see and hear it all the time, they broke into my truck, or my house and took my guns Be a little more responsible and maybe hide the ammo or gun in your truck, when you go in to have some biscuits and gravy. Stupid people, make it necessary to come up with stupid laws. It doesn’t necessarily mean they are bad people for leaving their guns and ammo in plain sight, just not the brightest.

Quote:

---

Crime has been around for centuries ????? Nice stance…

---

I assume you have intelligence that suggests otherwise? Care to share?

Laws are made to deter, you cannot change human behaviour as easily as creating a law. Saying it has been happening for centuries, is no argument, unless you have something to prove otherwise. Murder has been happening for centuries, should we give up as a society in trying to prevent it ?

Quote:

---

Comparing rods and reels to ammunition… now I see what I and the rest of the majority are up against here….

Most people would not read a proposal such as this and somehow jump to conclusions that their rods, reels and hammers and nails will be serial numbered next…

---

Again very typical “these laws won’t affect me” mentality. Who thought their guns and ammo would be under attack 75-100 years ago? Damn few I’m sure. Back then people had the common sense to differentiate between a CRIMINAL and a law abiding citizen. Today, obviously, too many have lost that sense. My point is this. Because these ammo laws may not affect you (but I guarantee they will) right is still right and wrong is still wrong. Should non fisherman give a crap if new laws are being written to limit our rights to fish? What if puclic access laws are changed. Should someone who doesn’t fish or use the access even care? ABSOLUTELY! I’m sorry I can’t quite get this thought into words but I can try once more to explain it the way it first occurred to me. A few years back at a gun show some guys were talking about some newly proposed gun law. One of the guys said something to the effect that he couldn’t care less because he doesn’t use rifles, that he is a shotgun only hunter. After thinking of that for a few moments I had to ask what guns he thought they would come after if they succeeded in eliminating rifle sales. He had the dumbest look on his face I think I’ve ever seen. He just didn’t get it.

I know it will “affect” me, prices of ammo will go up (that has been happening for centuries) but it will not change the way I handle or use ammo. I like to think I use it responsibly. I don’t lay ammo all over in my truck, for all to see. I stop off at the shack or cabin and put the gun under lock and key, before going to get that bite to eat. If that is not possible, then I at least “hide” my gun & ammo as best I can and try to park where I can keep an eye on my truck.

Quote:

---

Really, laws are made, as I stated earlier, to protect the majority, from the people who really can’t seperate right from wrong, common sense from fiction, ammo form rods and reels…Some people need to get a clue….

---

Some laws are sure. Speed limit laws being one of them. But can you possibly explain to me how further restricting already law abiding citizens does a single thing to prevent crimes? It amazes me that you and others fail to recognize that simple concept. And really. Stealing ammo out of a truck in front of a bar? How many hunters go to bars in Crenshaw? Common sense? Please, show me some!

If laws are all that is needed to legislate responsibility then why don’t they simply outlaw murder and rape? Maybe take it a step further and outlaw any crime that would involve a gun. There, that should fix it right? Oh that is right, criminals don’t follow laws. So instead let’s focus on restricting those that will and pretend that headway is being made. Talk about getting a clue!

---

I have seen lots of guns and ammo, proudly displayed in vehicles. I did not say I am for this proposal, just that how you can get to Obama or anyone “gettin’ your guns” is a leap from what I have read. You can label me all you want, it has been tried before. Label this, come and try to take my guns or ammo…. then label me. Whether the shell casing has a number on it or not, it won’t be easy. The sky is not falling over this one in my world.

big G

Do they fit a handgun or assault rifle ???

big G

Quote:

---

Do you really think it is “cool” to leave ammo and guns for that matter, in plain sight ? There are people out there, who would “take advantage” of just such a scenario. So how do we prevent or minimize it ? Make people accountable.

---

Make who accountable? The guy that didn’t break the law or the criminal? Grand theft auto is a problem as well. Maybe we ought to hide all of our vehicles too. Maybe if we hide our houses people will stop breaking into them as well. I’m starting to agree. We should continue to make laws that restrict those who broke no laws to hope those that do will magically be reformed.

Quote:

---

Laws are made to deter, you cannot change human behaviour as easily as creating a law.

---

What???? This is news! Get the spray paint and boards I need to make some signs. Yet the law makers continue to make laws for the non criminal. if you can’t see that happening I’m not sure how to make it so you can.

Quote:

---

Saying it has been happening for centuries, is no argument, unless you have something to prove otherwise. Murder has been happening for centuries, should we give up as a society in trying to prevent it ?

---

Thank you for making my point. Crime has been around as long as there has been men and will remain so. You think that there are steps we can take to PREVENT murder? How exactly do you prevent murder? This ought to be good! Little serial numbers on bullets and firing pins will do what, exactly, to prevent murder? ZIP!

---

I like to think I use it responsibly. I don’t lay ammo all over in my truck, for all to see. I stop off at the shack or cabin and put the gun under lock and key, before going to get that bite to eat. If that is not possible, then I at least “hide” my gun & ammo as best I can and try to park where I can keep an eye on my truck.

---

Great, I bet all of us here think the same way and I’d like to think that all here are pretty damn responsible. So what? Are you any better or worse of a person if a CRIMINAL breaks into your truck and steals your gun and ammo because the items were hidden? The stuff was still stolen by a CRIMINAL. Now is where I see it getting interesting. What if the gun and ammo are both micro stamped and that CRIMINAL used it to kill or rape someone. I’d like an explanation of how those little numbers will catch the CRIMINAL. They will make the life of the “responsible” guy hell for awhile while he tries his best and spends his life savings trying to prove he didn’t do it. I completely fail to see benefit from micro stamping, outside of the obvious price increase to reduce the number of rounds purchased to make some liberal idiot sleep better. Gosh just imagine if the STOLEN gun and ammo is used to kill someone the “responsible” person knew and had recent contact with. I’d hope that “responsible” person likes their soap tied to rope.

Quote:

---

I did not say I am for this proposal, just that how you can get to Obama or anyone “gettin’ your guns” is a leap from what I have read.

---

You may not have said you supported the proposal but you did indeed defend it. For sure you seemed to be alright with the idea of it going so far as to say it wouldn’t affect you. But just the same I’d encourage you to go and take a look and see what our Savior Elect has done in the past with his voting record when the Second Amendment is involved. I’d then encourage you to go and check out V.P. Savior and his voting record. From there take a look at those whom the Savior surrounded himself with and their stance on guns and so called gun control. It is extremely disturbing to say the least!

Bottom line big G I have no interest in labeling anyone. I’d prefer to get them motivated to educate themselves an draw their own conclusions. If after reading and understanding the basics about the history of gun control and those that continue to push it you still want to side with them fine. At least at that point the line between ally and foe is clearly defined.

And for what it is worth I was at a gun show today. I saw absolutely NO MAJORITY of people thinking this so called proposal is ok because it is a law designed to protect the masses. As a matter of fact I didn’t encounter a single person who thought the proposal was anything more than what I’m calling it here. BS! With over 300 million known guns in private ownership in the USA I have to wonder what majority it even was that elected this Savior we have coming. Baaaaaa!

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Do you really think it is “cool” to leave ammo and guns for that matter, in plain sight ? There are people out there, who would “take advantage” of just such a scenario. So how do we prevent or minimize it ? Make people accountable.

---

Make who accountable? The guy that didn’t break the law or the criminal? Grand theft auto is a problem as well. Maybe we ought to hide all of our vehicles too. Maybe if we hide our houses people will stop breaking into them as well. I’m starting to agree. We should continue to make laws that restrict those who broke no laws to hope those that do will magically be reformed.

Quote:

---

Laws are made to deter, you cannot change human behaviour as easily as creating a law.

---

What???? This is news! Get the spray paint and boards I need to make some signs. Yet the law makers continue to make laws for the non criminal. if you can’t see that happening I’m not sure how to make it so you can.

Again, laws cover everyone, how wonderful it would be if they just applied to criminals…. wait a minute, that’s why they are on the books !!! They do !!!

Quote:

---

Saying it has been happening for centuries, is no argument, unless you have something to prove otherwise. Murder has been happening for centuries, should we give up as a society in trying to prevent it ?

---

Thank you for making my point. Crime has been around as long as there has been men and will remain so. You think that there are steps we can take to PREVENT murder? How exactly do you prevent murder? This ought to be good! Little serial numbers on bullets and firing pins will do what, exactly, to prevent murder? ZIP!

Well this one would be tough…. so you are saying “nothing” can be done to prevent murders ??? I would ask an undercover officer if anything can be done ???

---

I like to think I use it responsibly. I don’t lay ammo all over in my truck, for all to see. I stop off at the shack or cabin and put the gun under lock and key, before going to get that bite to eat. If that is not possible, then I at least “hide” my gun & ammo as best I can and try to park where I can keep an eye on my truck.

---

Great, I bet all of us here think the same way and I’d like to think that all here are pretty damn responsible. So what? Are you any better or worse of a person if a CRIMINAL breaks into your truck and steals your gun and ammo because the items were hidden? The stuff was still stolen by a CRIMINAL. Now is where I see it getting interesting. What if the gun and ammo are both micro stamped and that CRIMINAL used it to kill or rape someone. I’d like an explanation of how those little numbers will catch the CRIMINAL. They will make the life of the “responsible” guy hell for awhile while he tries his best and spends his life savings trying to prove he didn’t do it. I completely fail to see benefit from micro stamping, outside of the obvious price increase to reduce the number of rounds purchased to make some liberal idiot sleep better. Gosh just imagine if the STOLEN gun and ammo is used to kill someone the “responsible” person knew and had recent contact with. I’d hope that “responsible” person likes their soap tied to rope.

Again “accountability” the easier you make it for them, the more they will do it. Kinda like kids….

Quote:

---

I did not say I am for this proposal, just that how you can get to Obama or anyone “gettin’ your guns” is a leap from what I have read.

---

You may not have said you supported the proposal but you did indeed defend it. For sure you seemed to be alright with the idea of it going so far as to say it wouldn’t affect you. But just the same I’d encourage you to go and take a look and see what our Savior Elect has done in the past with his voting record when the Second Amendment is involved. I’d then encourage you to go and check out V.P. Savior and his voting record. From there take a look at those whom the Savior surrounded himself with and their stance on guns and so called gun control. It is extremely disturbing to say the least!

Bottom line big G I have no interest in labeling anyone. I’d prefer to get them motivated to educate themselves an draw their own conclusions. If after reading and understanding the basics about the history of gun control and those that continue to push it you still want to side with them fine. At least at that point the line between ally and foe is clearly defined.

And for what it is worth I was at a gun show today. I saw absolutely NO MAJORITY of people thinking this so called proposal is ok because it is a law designed to protect the masses. As a matter of fact I didn’t encounter a single person who thought the proposal was anything more than what I’m calling it here. BS! With over 300 million known guns in private ownership in the USA I have to wonder what majority it even was that elected this Savior we have coming. Baaaaaa!

---

Thats like going to a Star Trek convention and asking if they thought Doogie Houser was the best TV series ever…

BTW, I did not vote for this saviour you speak of… So I can complain about everything he does !!

big G

Quote:

---

Again, laws cover everyone, how wonderful it would be if they just applied to criminals…. wait a minute, that’s why they are on the books !!! They do !!!

---

Well do they or don’t they? I mean honestly make up your mind already. If these micro stamping laws really apply to everyone please make sure and post photos of the CRIMINALS at the check out. I’m sure they’ll be conscience enough to make sure they only use the new versions of guns when they commit a CRIME!

Quote:

---

so you are saying “nothing” can be done to prevent murders ??? I would ask an undercover officer if anything can be done ???

---

Pretty much exactly what I’m saying. The ultimate penalty has done nothing to prevent it so why would anything else? But considering you brought up the idea you can prevent a murder I’d say it is in your court to prove you can. Maybe while people are looking for ways to do that they will also find out a way to prevent people from lying. Would it make you feel better if the dead person were pushed out of a window? CRIMINALS, being the type they are, will commit CRIME regardless of how law abiding you or I am. If we dump all of our “bad” ammo and upgrade all of our guns to the new micro stamped guns, and have all of our guns finger printed do you feel that will prevent a single CRIME? We could be sitting here praying our ever loving minds out to God Himself and yet out on the street some thug is still going to rape, kill, or rob. WHAT WE DO HAS NO EFFECT ON CRIMINALS!!!!!!!! I am 100% baffled why people fail to comprehend that.

Quote:

---

Again “accountability” the easier you make it for them, the more they will do it. Kinda like kids….

---

Yes again. Again you propose support to pre punish a law abiding person by limiting their actions while CRIMINALS are still free to do as they please. Incomprehensible. With your methodology how do you propose we stop home invasions or car theft? Hide the houses and cars? Maybe if we take guns out of houses and cars that will help. No wait. I think that has been tried and proven. It didn’t work. Anyone have a cloaking device big enough for a two story home?

Quote:

---

Thats like going to a Star Trek convention and asking if they thought Doogie Houser was the best TV series ever…

---

Fair enough. But I ask what group you polled that supports your earlier “majority” comment? School teachers? Sarah Brady?

If you voted I feel you can complain about anything you want. Remember there were people who DIED to give both of us those freedoms. I feel it would be incredibly disrespectful to not fight to support our friends and families past efforts. If we’re going to start to allow our Second Amendment right to go away how long until we start making concessions on the others? When will we be having the discussion about limiting certain words? Maybe we should go to jail for swearing? Heck they are just swear words, no one really needs to use them. And what’s the point of allowing as many people to gather at one place anyhow? Might as well start to limit that too.

Anyone ever stop to think about why, in the movies, we always see that the United States doesn’t negotiate with terrorists? Regardless if we do or don’t isn’t it obvious why we wouldn’t? Anyone looking to erode my Second Amendment right I view as a terrorist. I refuse to negotiate with them. If they succeed in taking away one thing they will not simply go away quietly. Never have and never will.

I respectfully go away quietly… we will see where this one goes…. ranting on here will not change policy or the course of this country…. writing your congresspeople will I think my guns are safe for now… that’s all. Heard the whole “they’re gonna get your guns” thing 1 too many times I guess…

big G

Quote:

---

Chris, if you are dumb enough, to not use up your old ammo in 2 years, you deserve what you get. Did you read the proposal ? How many of us, have seen a pick-up truck, parked outside the bar, with a box of rifle shells laying on the dash in clear view ? I call that being careless, accountability, would be taking the proper steps to ensure you store your ammo safely and correct. Laws are actually made for the very few, but try to protect the majority from the small minded few who do not have common sense. Now your on welfare ? I am naive…. I believe everything I read…. some people actually do, that’s what I call naive…. Sounds like we have a couple of candidates, along with serial numbered ammo, we need a couple of them chips implanted in their brains, you know the ones, that we were warned about 20 or so years ago…. the gov’t puts them in there to control our minds….

I know what DOT numbers are for, do you not think they can recall ammo ??? My point is, tires are serial numbered, but that doesn’t mean you can’t buy them anymore, or as many as you’d like…

big G

---

If I am dumb enough? Exactly. I’m not.

I am also not dumb enough to think the government is intelligent enough to create laws to make life harder for law abiding citizens.

I do however reload and will have bullets not used in inventory for some time. The govenment has plenty of laws on the books right now to prosecute criminals involved with gun crimes. How about getting the government to enforce them before hindering law abiding citizens?

Life is tough… but it beats the alternative I have heard… You could still reload all the non-assault rifle or non-handgun loads you want. I like what Steve does… SNOPES… might be somebodys pipe dream…

big G

Assault is an action not a device. And what difference does the style of the gun make? Does a 9mm handgun kill “more dead” than a deer rifle?

It’ so obvious but since you asked, I would venture to guess statistically a 9mm handgun, would be more likely to be the choice for murderous use. You know how the guys always look suspicious, wearing a trenchcoat in July, trying to conceal a long barreled gun ? Little easier to conceal a handgun, therefore making it easier for the element of surprise. Just a question… do you believe the average law-abiding citizen, should be able to buy RPG’s over the counter ??? Just to shoot off at the range for fun. They are a rush to shoot. Trying to understand some mindsets, that’s all.

big G

What I believe is so simple it is missed by many. The GUN did NOT murder anyone. The CRIMINAL did. Make sense? Now I’m assuming everyone here knows what a CRIMINAL is, maybe I shouldn’t be? What difference does it make what caliber was used in the majority of the CRIMES? I have thousands of rounds of ammo, various calibers, in my house. NOT ONCE has any of it discharged by its own accord. There are no bullet holes or marks in the roof of my gun vault above any of my semi automatic guns be they pistol or rifle. And now is the perfect time for this. Let’s assume 9mm is the most common caliber to use in a CRIME. If we eliminated the 9mm would that type of CRIME be reduced or go away? Nope! CRIMINALS would move to another caliber. Then what? Ban that? How long does this continue? Back to my earlier point. CRIME has been here for centuries. Taking away one of the tools used to commit CRIMES is a useless tactic because only LAW ABIDING (Opposite that of a CRIMINAL!) citizens will follow the law.

Now I know you earlier respectfully bowed out of the conversation and I’ll certainly respect you if you choose not to respond. If you choose to respond that’s ok by me too.

But I stand by my earlier statement. Assault is an ACTION not a device.

As I said before, stupid laws are made to deter stupid people.. does it stop them ? No. Do they make it a little harder ? Yes. With your analogy, there would have to be no laws on the books. Everybody behaves responsibly and were good to go. This is not going to happen, that is why legislation has been happening for centuries. I have posed the RPG question in here before, nobody ever responds ? I don’t mind a healthy debate… I did not however, like the way the thread was going, with all the quoting going on… plus it was hard to keep track of what was what ???

big G

Fair enough. Should people be able to own RPGs. I can’t say as I have thought about it much. Should “we” be able to own tanks? In part I want to say yes because I think it’d rock to own one, lol. But the reality is neither RPGs nor tanks were ever built for the masses. They were built specifically for the military. The same isn’t true for hand guns or rifles regardless of design, save for maybe fully automatics. If I recall there is something significant about 1982 and full auto weapons but I honestly will have to look it up. Full auto’s can still be owned by private citizens with the proper tax stamps and permits. But something about or around 1982 comes to mind, just not sure why.

I have never said there should not be laws on the books. I never even intimated such. We have laws, lots of them in fact. But when prosecuting CRIMINALS has proven to not deter the do gooders (I call them LIBERALS) decided they could make a difference by adding laws that supposedly make it harder for CRIMINALS to get, in this case, guns. But who is it, honestly now, that actually follows these new regulations? You see that is what I ask and never get an answer to. Do law abiding citizens follow the rules? Of course. Do the criminals? Are the punk gang bangers in the inner cities at all concerned about the Second Right infringements? Do they give a rats butt about capital punishment? No. None of it matters. So with these additional restrictions exactly who is it that is being affected? Us. People just like you and I and everyone else here.

I’ve tried to find credible data that would show a decline in homicides in the US since the mandatory NICS checks and X number hour waiting periods have been in place. There is nothing that proves decidedly one way or the other. Why? It is IMPOSSIBLE to prevent murder.

A couple of us at work were discussing this this morning. One of us is , as I like to point out to him, a liberal. During the conversation a Chief of Police was here from the next town having his cruiser serviced. I was asking what can be done to prevent murder. To be fair myself and one other guy are not only certified nuts, but certified gun nuts. We really do think like most of the time. The other guy was tossing out ides which when we discussed them he agreed they sounded good in principal but when broken down would likely fail. After several minutes of this the C.O.P. said, and I quote as close as possible, “There is no sense trying to prevent a spur of the moment action. All we can really do is a better job of prosecuting those that do break the law.”

Now his word is no more valid than the next cop that disagrees with him of course but it was what I got in this instance. I’m not sure how many here saw or heard of the young sheriff patrol guy that, a year ago last month, killed several people in Crandon Wi. This kid went through all kinds of training and was a cop. They didn’t see anything wrong any time they worked with him. Why? There wasn’t. Oh they got ripped for letting such a young kid (I think 23) be a sheriff patrolman but how were they to know this guys girlfriend would break up and go out with the best friend? We have no idea how people will respond to that kind of stimulus so how in the heck does one prevent it? If he didn’t have a gun he could have stabbed her. No knife he could have thrown her from a window. No windows he could have done it the old fashioned way and strangled her.

I just feel we need to understand CRIMINALS will commit crimes one way or the other. Pre punishing law abiding citizens will NEVER impact that fact.

While I agree with the bulk of your post, how can having a bullet, with a serial number, not help in what the cop said, punishing those who break the laws ??? Right now, guns are serial numbered, nobodys complaining. What would be so horrible (other than cost) of having the weapons of choice of criminals, having one more thing they have to worry about after committing a crime ? Better pick up shell casings and oh yeah, dig that bullet out of your victim. Again, I see obvious loopholes, as Chris pointed out, reloading, stolen ammo. Again, I do not support or defend this proposal, but but have been defending the fact that it is aimed at taking away our right to bear arms. It says nothing of the sort.

big G

I bet the part you agreed with the most is when I admitted to being a certified nut! Go ahead, it’s ok to admit it!

Why don’t I think it is a good idea to have micro stamping on ammo? Because it will needlessly raise the cost of ammo. It will solve nothing as has been proven by the finger printing of guns in New York where gun buyers paid over 7 MILLION dollars to support the program. As I eluded to earlier imagine this scenario. Someone broke into your house or car and stole your gun and some ammo. Because they are already in your area it isn’t impossible to think that gun and ammo could be used in a crime right? Imagine if that CRIMINAL killed or raped someone you know and then dumped the evidence and headed for Splitsville. I cannot see cannot see a single solitary way those micro stamps could possibly point to some deadbeat from two states away much less two towns away. What those numbers will do is lead the cops straight to your door thus making your life a miserable SOB for some time to come. If no other leads exist the gun owner will certainly find themselves hiring an expensive attorney to try and protect themselves from sometimes over anxious sheriffs up for re-election. It has happened before.

Besides all of that there is this. After spending the additional money to put these stamps on guns and ammo there are still some obvious flaws. Number one there are still over 300 MILLION guns not micro stamped. Finding and using one would be far easier than some might imagine. Two. I own several files. How hard would it honestly be to rub a file across the micro stamp and remove it? For that matter how hard would it be to pull the bullet from the casing and file said number from that? Did anyone consider lead bullet usually come apart on impact and would likely render a number unreadable?

No there are just too many things about this that prove to be, beyond a shadow of a doubt, this proposal is not intended to deter or solve crime. Its purpose is all to clear to me and that is add another step of incrementalism in the reduction and erosion of The Second Amendment.

You also brought up an interesting point about guns being serial numbered. I’ve long meant to research this and as of yet have not. When and why did the serial numbers come to be? Was it voluntary from gun makers or did the government force it? I do not know. I do know that NICS and registrations came years after the serial numbers appeared. I suspect, but do not know, the government forced the SNs knowing that sometime down the road they’d be able to get background checks and registrations pushed through too. Please understand I am not a conspiracy theorist but this whole “gun control” deal has a very definite pattern.

I want to take a few lines and apologize directly to big G for allowing such a disrespectful theme to get into my earlier posts. Being no different than many others I do get, call it what you will, bold, passionate, and yes even rude, when discussing and or defending a passion. I certainly don’t intend for things to go that way but obviously as things get a little hot they turn out that way. I make ABSOLUTELY NO apologies for defending EVERYONE’S freedoms however. But I do regret allowing such a tone to get into these posts.

Quote:

---

As I said before, stupid laws are made to deter stupid people..

---

Stupid laws like this are like pissing in the wind. The only one getting wet is you.

It will do NOTHING to deter criminals. I magine there are going to be plenty of challenges to this before anything would go into effect as this is so stupid. But hey, you never know.

I too get riled up, when I see something taken and construed to fit views. I apologize also Riveratt. I have been called worse than “nuts”

Chris, it may or may not “deter” but to say it would not help solve crime, I ask you how it could hurt? Stupid people will always do stupid things, I would rather have them doing it to other stupid people behind bars.

big G