This is exactly why we need to be careful who we vote to represent us. Please call the numbers in the link to show your support on this very important topic.
Post edited to eliminate the “politicalness” of the topic. This is intended to warn Wisconsin citizens of an attempt at stealing our rights so we can go to work to prevent them. Nothing more.
Looking forward to the day he is voted out.
Looking forward to the day he is voted out.
Are there any pieces of information on what he is exactly proposing? I’m glad the NRA is fighting for our rights, but to use a phrase such as, “Governor Doyle, a pawn for the anti-freedom movement….” really turns me off.
I’d like to review the actual legislation from a source not so far bent in one direction.
Thanks,
Eric
Are there any pieces of information on what he is exactly proposing? I’m glad the NRA is fighting for our rights, but to use a phrase such as, “Governor Doyle, a pawn for the anti-freedom movement….” really turns me off.
I’d like to review the actual legislation from a source not so far bent in one direction.
Thanks,
Eric
I’m not sure of any specifics but given the past voting record of the individual in question I have no doubt he is working to remove our rights. If you go to nraila.org and search Doyle you’ll see more specifics on several anti gun issues he seems to like. Make the call folks, don’t wait until it is too late.
I’m not sure of any specifics but given the past voting record of the individual in question I have no doubt he is working to remove our rights. If you go to nraila.org and search Doyle you’ll see more specifics on several anti gun issues he seems to like. Make the call folks, don’t wait until it is too late.
I think this is what the NRA is responding to. Off the AP wire:
August 21, 2007 (MILWAUKEE) – Governor Jim Doyle wants to eliminate a loophole that allows some dealers to sell firearms at gun shows without doing background checks.
Doyle says the loophole allows buyers at gun shows to skip federally licensed firearm dealers, who would require a waiting period and background checks, and find one who will sell them a gun right away.
He wants to ensure all sellers are federally licensed.
Doyle’s package is aimed at cutting crime in Milwaukee. It also would require ballistic fingerprinting, which matches bullet markings to the inside of a gun’s barrel. The state Department of Justice would keep records that could help track guns.
(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
I think this is what the NRA is responding to. Off the AP wire:
August 21, 2007 (MILWAUKEE) – Governor Jim Doyle wants to eliminate a loophole that allows some dealers to sell firearms at gun shows without doing background checks.
Doyle says the loophole allows buyers at gun shows to skip federally licensed firearm dealers, who would require a waiting period and background checks, and find one who will sell them a gun right away.
He wants to ensure all sellers are federally licensed.
Doyle’s package is aimed at cutting crime in Milwaukee. It also would require ballistic fingerprinting, which matches bullet markings to the inside of a gun’s barrel. The state Department of Justice would keep records that could help track guns.
(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
I’m not sure that’s it for sure Jon, might be.
As for this gun show loophole someone needs to explain it to me. I’ve been to several gun shows and not a once have I been able to find a dealer that is willing to bypass federal laws. If there are some doing that you can bet they do the same at their gun shop. Ballistic finger printing is not an accurate means of doing anything other than adding confusion and mis information to a case.
If this is truly aimed at reducing crime in big cities then he is way off his mark. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not the answer. Criminals don’t care if they have an illegal gun! Maybe adding more policemen would help. Maybe convicting those already caught would help. Here is an idea, if convicted of a felony commited with a gun serve the jail time, no early release! And above all, when in jail, provide the cons with some type of reform so they have a skill when released. Who will fund all of this? Everyone. Who will fund it if we don’t change anything and proceed with Doyle’s plan? The non criminal gun owners.
I’m not sure that’s it for sure Jon, might be.
As for this gun show loophole someone needs to explain it to me. I’ve been to several gun shows and not a once have I been able to find a dealer that is willing to bypass federal laws. If there are some doing that you can bet they do the same at their gun shop. Ballistic finger printing is not an accurate means of doing anything other than adding confusion and mis information to a case.
If this is truly aimed at reducing crime in big cities then he is way off his mark. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not the answer. Criminals don’t care if they have an illegal gun! Maybe adding more policemen would help. Maybe convicting those already caught would help. Here is an idea, if convicted of a felony commited with a gun serve the jail time, no early release! And above all, when in jail, provide the cons with some type of reform so they have a skill when released. Who will fund all of this? Everyone. Who will fund it if we don’t change anything and proceed with Doyle’s plan? The non criminal gun owners.
They keep saying gun shows….. It’s not licensed dealers at gun shows that are the perceived problem. It’s regular guys like me who have 5 guns and sell them to anyone at a gun show. Not much different than if we met up in my garage. You have cash, I have guns, we make a deal. Neither of us has broken any law. The problem? No waiting period and the trail of ownership ends. I think that is what they are trying to get their hands around. The NRA is basically against any new legislation and barks pretty loudly when these things come up. Personally, I would not be against a law that required the documented transfer of handguns. Something along the line of a car title?? I don’t have the answer. I do agree that criminals have relatively easy access to handguns and that is a problem.
-J.
They keep saying gun shows….. It’s not licensed dealers at gun shows that are the perceived problem. It’s regular guys like me who have 5 guns and sell them to anyone at a gun show. Not much different than if we met up in my garage. You have cash, I have guns, we make a deal. Neither of us has broken any law. The problem? No waiting period and the trail of ownership ends. I think that is what they are trying to get their hands around. The NRA is basically against any new legislation and barks pretty loudly when these things come up. Personally, I would not be against a law that required the documented transfer of handguns. Something along the line of a car title?? I don’t have the answer. I do agree that criminals have relatively easy access to handguns and that is a problem.
-J.
I know what your saying Jon but I’m not sure I’d support it (paper trail on private sales) for several reasons. One is how would it be funded and how would it be enforced? It is invasion of privacy at the very least. I’m not sold on waiting periods myself. What did it prove in Virginia? Not much, the guy bought the guns months in advance. I guess at some point we need to come to grips with the fact that we’ll never eliminate crime. Limiting the rights of law abiding citizens is such a backwards idea it baffles me.
I know what your saying Jon but I’m not sure I’d support it (paper trail on private sales) for several reasons. One is how would it be funded and how would it be enforced? It is invasion of privacy at the very least. I’m not sold on waiting periods myself. What did it prove in Virginia? Not much, the guy bought the guns months in advance. I guess at some point we need to come to grips with the fact that we’ll never eliminate crime. Limiting the rights of law abiding citizens is such a backwards idea it baffles me.
Attached below is two diffrent versions of the story (one arguably slanted against, one pretty cleary more in favor); a few more details for people interested. I am not sure if I am for or against the measures being discussed: I would want to see the actual bill being introduced. Does anyone have a copy of that? The NRA piece uses inflammatory language with no evidence to support the claims. PS: I am a member of the NRA.
Group says anti-gun proposals are off target
Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 12:08 AM
By Andrew Beckett
The Governor is out with a new set of gun control initiatives, but one group says those proposals won’t do much to reduce crime.
The Governor on Tuesday unveiled legislative initiatives largely aimed a ending gun-related violence in Milwaukee. However, Wisconsin Pro-Gun Movement director Jim Fendry says they won’t really solve the problems facing the state because most only impact people who buy guys legally.
The plan includes more monitoring for individuals who can’t legally possess firearms, such as felons and those who have been civilly committed. Fendry expects the measure to have the support it needs, but it doubts it will keep guns away from everyone who shouldn’t have one.
It also closes a so-called gun show loophole by only allowing federally licensed dealers to make sales. Fendry says 95 percent of the people running tables at gun shows are already licensed and run background checks.
The proposal would also create a statewide gun ballistics database. Fendry says such a system is based on the assumption that fired bullets are like human fingerprints, but he says that’s not the case with guns. Over time, repeated firings can wear down the barrel and change the unique print left on a bullet fired from that weapon.
The Governor also wants to repeal the state’s 1995 pre-emption law, which erased local gun control ordinances. Fendry says that breaks away from what’s largely been a state policy on several other issues, such as liquor ordinances and traffic laws.
Several of the proposals from the Governor have already been introduced at the Capitol by lawmakers.
And from a source called the “Republic” (google Doyle Gun Measures): In response to the tragedy at Virginia Tech Governor Doyle wants to increase monitoring of individuals who have been civilly committed or prohibited by a court of law from using firearm. The state currently coordinates with the Wisconsin Department of Justice (DOJ) to track individuals who are civilly committed and prohibited from obtaining or using a firearm in Wisconsin. Governor Doyle is taking the next step, proposing legislation to share that information with the federal government, contributing to a national database. This step prevents these individuals from traveling to a state where their background is not available to purchase a firearm, and then bringing it back to Wisconsin to commit a crime.
Governor Doyle thanked Representative Tony Staskunas for his work on this issue.
Empowering Local Communities to Ensure Public Safety
In 1995, the state Legislature passed the preemption law – erasing all local ordinances related to firearms and denying cities, villages, towns and counties from enacting any new laws that would be more restrictive than the state statutes. As Attorney General, Governor Doyle strongly opposed this legislation – seeing the significant threat it posed to the safety of cities like Milwaukee. To keep Wisconsin residents safe, the Governor is proposing a rollback of the preemption law to give cities like Milwaukee the flexibility they need maintain order and keep their citizens out of harms way.
Closing the Gun Show Loophole
Under current law, individuals who are not federally licensed firearm dealers can sell firearms without background checks at places like gun shows that are unregulated by state law – providing a loophole for guns to end up in the hands of criminals. To close that loophole, Governor Doyle is proposing prohibiting any individual in the state from selling or buying a firearm, transferring or obtaining ownership of a handgun unless two provisions are met: One person involved in the transaction must be a federally licensed firearms dealer; and the seller or transferor of the firearm must make the transaction through a licensed firearm dealer.
Governor Doyle thanked Senator Spencer Coggs for his leadership on this issue.
Legislation Prohibiting Firearms for Convicted Criminals, People under 21
Governor Doyle is proposing legislation that would prohibit the possession and purchase of a firearm for an individual who has been convicted of a misdemeanor that involved a firearm. As Attorney General, the Governor advocated strongly for this measure and it is included in the city of Milwaukee and Milwaukee Police Department’s 2007-2008 Public Safety Package. Additionally, Governor Doyle is proposing to prohibit sales of firearms to individuals under the age of 21, to help keep guns out of the hands of the state’s young people.
Attached below is two diffrent versions of the story (one arguably slanted against, one pretty cleary more in favor); a few more details for people interested. I am not sure if I am for or against the measures being discussed: I would want to see the actual bill being introduced. Does anyone have a copy of that? The NRA piece uses inflammatory language with no evidence to support the claims. PS: I am a member of the NRA.
Group says anti-gun proposals are off target
Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 12:08 AM
By Andrew Beckett
The Governor is out with a new set of gun control initiatives, but one group says those proposals won’t do much to reduce crime.
The Governor on Tuesday unveiled legislative initiatives largely aimed a ending gun-related violence in Milwaukee. However, Wisconsin Pro-Gun Movement director Jim Fendry says they won’t really solve the problems facing the state because most only impact people who buy guys legally.
The plan includes more monitoring for individuals who can’t legally possess firearms, such as felons and those who have been civilly committed. Fendry expects the measure to have the support it needs, but it doubts it will keep guns away from everyone who shouldn’t have one.
It also closes a so-called gun show loophole by only allowing federally licensed dealers to make sales. Fendry says 95 percent of the people running tables at gun shows are already licensed and run background checks.
The proposal would also create a statewide gun ballistics database. Fendry says such a system is based on the assumption that fired bullets are like human fingerprints, but he says that’s not the case with guns. Over time, repeated firings can wear down the barrel and change the unique print left on a bullet fired from that weapon.
The Governor also wants to repeal the state’s 1995 pre-emption law, which erased local gun control ordinances. Fendry says that breaks away from what’s largely been a state policy on several other issues, such as liquor ordinances and traffic laws.
Several of the proposals from the Governor have already been introduced at the Capitol by lawmakers.
And from a source called the “Republic” (google Doyle Gun Measures): In response to the tragedy at Virginia Tech Governor Doyle wants to increase monitoring of individuals who have been civilly committed or prohibited by a court of law from using firearm. The state currently coordinates with the Wisconsin Department of Justice (DOJ) to track individuals who are civilly committed and prohibited from obtaining or using a firearm in Wisconsin. Governor Doyle is taking the next step, proposing legislation to share that information with the federal government, contributing to a national database. This step prevents these individuals from traveling to a state where their background is not available to purchase a firearm, and then bringing it back to Wisconsin to commit a crime.
Governor Doyle thanked Representative Tony Staskunas for his work on this issue.
Empowering Local Communities to Ensure Public Safety
In 1995, the state Legislature passed the preemption law – erasing all local ordinances related to firearms and denying cities, villages, towns and counties from enacting any new laws that would be more restrictive than the state statutes. As Attorney General, Governor Doyle strongly opposed this legislation – seeing the significant threat it posed to the safety of cities like Milwaukee. To keep Wisconsin residents safe, the Governor is proposing a rollback of the preemption law to give cities like Milwaukee the flexibility they need maintain order and keep their citizens out of harms way.
Closing the Gun Show Loophole
Under current law, individuals who are not federally licensed firearm dealers can sell firearms without background checks at places like gun shows that are unregulated by state law – providing a loophole for guns to end up in the hands of criminals. To close that loophole, Governor Doyle is proposing prohibiting any individual in the state from selling or buying a firearm, transferring or obtaining ownership of a handgun unless two provisions are met: One person involved in the transaction must be a federally licensed firearms dealer; and the seller or transferor of the firearm must make the transaction through a licensed firearm dealer.
Governor Doyle thanked Senator Spencer Coggs for his leadership on this issue.
Legislation Prohibiting Firearms for Convicted Criminals, People under 21
Governor Doyle is proposing legislation that would prohibit the possession and purchase of a firearm for an individual who has been convicted of a misdemeanor that involved a firearm. As Attorney General, the Governor advocated strongly for this measure and it is included in the city of Milwaukee and Milwaukee Police Department’s 2007-2008 Public Safety Package. Additionally, Governor Doyle is proposing to prohibit sales of firearms to individuals under the age of 21, to help keep guns out of the hands of the state’s young people.
I’m curious about something. How do the gangbangers in Milwaukee get their guns now? Are they going to gun shows and buying them? Will tighter backround checks prevent an Easy E wannbe (A dead rapper born Eric Wright) from getting his paws on a gun? No, not a chance. All these checks will do is make it harder and more expensive for you, I, and every other LEGAL gun owner to obtain new guns. The fee’s we pay will be used to further fund the political fight against guns. Sure is nice we’re spending our own money to fight us. Gosh, it even felt dumb typing that, lol.
I’m curious about something. How do the gangbangers in Milwaukee get their guns now? Are they going to gun shows and buying them? Will tighter backround checks prevent an Easy E wannbe (A dead rapper born Eric Wright) from getting his paws on a gun? No, not a chance. All these checks will do is make it harder and more expensive for you, I, and every other LEGAL gun owner to obtain new guns. The fee’s we pay will be used to further fund the political fight against guns. Sure is nice we’re spending our own money to fight us. Gosh, it even felt dumb typing that, lol.
As long as the “Gang Banger” has not been busted, he can get guns just like you or I. Go and buy one!
More likely, open up a paper and buy one from a private party or steal one.
Quote:
Closing the Gun Show Loophole
Under current law, individuals who are not federally licensed firearm dealers can sell firearms without background checks at places like gun shows that are unregulated by state law – providing a loophole for guns to end up in the hands of criminals. To close that loophole, Governor Doyle is proposing prohibiting any individual in the state from selling or buying a firearm, transferring or obtaining ownership of a handgun unless two provisions are met: One person involved in the transaction must be a federally licensed firearms dealer; and the seller or transferor of the firearm must make the transaction through a licensed firearm dealer.
If I lived in Wisconsin, I would ask this from my legislators…. You can close the loophole, but give legally licensed law abiding citizens the right to carry fireamrs in public like we have here in Minnesota. And give Minnesota residents reciprocy so we can carry over there!
-J.
As long as the “Gang Banger” has not been busted, he can get guns just like you or I. Go and buy one!
More likely, open up a paper and buy one from a private party or steal one.
Quote:
Closing the Gun Show Loophole
Under current law, individuals who are not federally licensed firearm dealers can sell firearms without background checks at places like gun shows that are unregulated by state law – providing a loophole for guns to end up in the hands of criminals. To close that loophole, Governor Doyle is proposing prohibiting any individual in the state from selling or buying a firearm, transferring or obtaining ownership of a handgun unless two provisions are met: One person involved in the transaction must be a federally licensed firearms dealer; and the seller or transferor of the firearm must make the transaction through a licensed firearm dealer.
If I lived in Wisconsin, I would ask this from my legislators…. You can close the loophole, but give legally licensed law abiding citizens the right to carry fireamrs in public like we have here in Minnesota. And give Minnesota residents reciprocy so we can carry over there!
-J.
By the way Kelly, thanks for finding that information. 
By the way Kelly, thanks for finding that information.
Quote:
As long as the “Gang Banger” has not been busted, he can get guns just like you or I. Go and buy one!
More likely, open up a paper and buy one from a private party or steal one.
Now that is a good one! A gang banger in the gun shop legally purchasing a firearm! We know that isn’t happening. Now stealing them yes, that I will buy into.
Quote:
If I lived in Wisconsin, I would ask this from my legislators…. You can close the loophole, but give legally licensed law abiding citizens the right to carry fireamrs in public like we have here in Minnesota. And give Minnesota residents reciprocy so we can carry over there!
Gosh that would be very tempting. The sad thing is we all know we can’t negotiate with terrorists and, as far as I’m concerned, anyone trying to take away my constitutional rights is but a terrorist of a different stripe. Once we give them one thing they will start right over wanting more. I say this. How about we get a two year trial basis to earn a permit to carry concealed and see how that affects the crime rate. If it is proven that legal gun carrying citizens are not out shooting everything in sight we get to keep them. If crime skyrockets then we go back to the drawing board. I just don’t buy into the idea of making legal firearms owners jump through more hoops and pay more fee’s will solve anything.
FWIW I’m very glad this topic is allowed to take place here and that the participants are able to discuss this cordially.
Quote:
As long as the “Gang Banger” has not been busted, he can get guns just like you or I. Go and buy one!
More likely, open up a paper and buy one from a private party or steal one.
Now that is a good one! A gang banger in the gun shop legally purchasing a firearm! We know that isn’t happening. Now stealing them yes, that I will buy into.
Quote:
If I lived in Wisconsin, I would ask this from my legislators…. You can close the loophole, but give legally licensed law abiding citizens the right to carry fireamrs in public like we have here in Minnesota. And give Minnesota residents reciprocy so we can carry over there!
Gosh that would be very tempting. The sad thing is we all know we can’t negotiate with terrorists and, as far as I’m concerned, anyone trying to take away my constitutional rights is but a terrorist of a different stripe. Once we give them one thing they will start right over wanting more. I say this. How about we get a two year trial basis to earn a permit to carry concealed and see how that affects the crime rate. If it is proven that legal gun carrying citizens are not out shooting everything in sight we get to keep them. If crime skyrockets then we go back to the drawing board. I just don’t buy into the idea of making legal firearms owners jump through more hoops and pay more fee’s will solve anything.
FWIW I’m very glad this topic is allowed to take place here and that the participants are able to discuss this cordially.
I spent 30 minutes trying to figure out a way to comment on this without ruffling feathers on either side of the issue, and I’ve decided it just can’t be done.
As an outdoorsman and a gun owner, I obviously am not opposed to owning guns. I don’t have a criminal record and don’t plan to, but you never know what can happen down the road.
I have absolutely NO problem with trying to close the gun show loophole. If I’m a private citizen and I’m going to sell a gun to some dumb 
whose trying to get one through me only to bypass a background check than I’m a bigger idiot than the other guy. If I sell a gun to somebody, why wouldn’t I want to know that I’m not selling it to somebody who has knocked off a dozen liquor stores and shot somebody? If the guy doesn’t want to go through a background check, I wouldn’t sell him the gun.
On the flip side, I DON’T support the way this type of legislation is usually written with some obscure stuff buried in the legaleze that ends up sticking it to the law abiding every day joe that wants to own a gun. If they could write legislation that ONLY resulted in requiring background checks at gun shows when guns are sold, I would support it. My guess is, this legislation has a whole lot more in it than the gun show loophole and the balistic fingerprinting, which I agree is not worth squat.
I don’t believe that I would ever need to carry a handgun, but I firmly believe that I should be allowed to with a permit. As long as the current WI governor is in place, you will never see that happen.
Anyway, I’ve stated my case, and I tried to keep it straight to the point and free of anything that would set anyone off. Keep in mind, it is only MY opinion.
I will contact my government official, not because I’m opposed to background checks at gun shows, but because I’m opposed to them rolling up a bunch of other things under it to try and sneak it in.
I’m done now.
John
P.S. Guns don’t kill people, bullets do.
Quote:
If they could write legislation that ONLY resulted in requiring background checks at gun shows when guns are sold, I would support it.
This is where the public gets confused by politicians. There is simply no gun show loophole. Backround checks are required already! Private sellers are exempt from the check, as well they should be, and maybe make up 2-3% of gun show sellers. Simply stated the phrase “gun show loophole” is a catch phrase invented to stir up support from people unwilling to become educated on the subject.
Quote:
I don’t believe that I would ever need to carry a handgun, but I firmly believe that I should be allowed to with a permit. As long as the current WI governor is in place, you will never see that happen.
Many people feel just as you do and rightfully so. Not everyone is comfortable or capable of carrying concealed, nothing wrong with that. But for those that can are are willing to carry they should have the right to prove they are able to do so and be allowed. The fact is Wisconsin is one of only 4-5 states that do not allow CCW. And our elected official has stated flatly that regardless of what the PEOPLE want he will veto it. That is wrong, we vote people in place to carry the voice of the people.
Quote:
I will contact my government official, not because I’m opposed to background checks at gun shows, but because I’m opposed to them rolling up a bunch of other things under it to try and sneak it in.
Thank you! What we need to have happen is for reasonable people to get educated on these issues and then take action. I realize I step on some toes in my delivery of information but at some point people need to get over it and understand the urgency of these matters. Remember the saying “An armed society is a polite society”. That is very true!
One last thought for now. Why not just outlaw armed robbery and other such crimes? Wouldn’t that be much more simple than trying to regulate everything LEGAL gun owners do? 
Quote:
If they could write legislation that ONLY resulted in requiring background checks at gun shows when guns are sold, I would support it.
This is where the public gets confused by politicians. There is simply no gun show loophole. Backround checks are required already! Private sellers are exempt from the check, as well they should be, and maybe make up 2-3% of gun show sellers. Simply stated the phrase “gun show loophole” is a catch phrase invented to stir up support from people unwilling to become educated on the subject.
Quote:
I don’t believe that I would ever need to carry a handgun, but I firmly believe that I should be allowed to with a permit. As long as the current WI governor is in place, you will never see that happen.
Many people feel just as you do and rightfully so. Not everyone is comfortable or capable of carrying concealed, nothing wrong with that. But for those that can are are willing to carry they should have the right to prove they are able to do so and be allowed. The fact is Wisconsin is one of only 4-5 states that do not allow CCW. And our elected official has stated flatly that regardless of what the PEOPLE want he will veto it. That is wrong, we vote people in place to carry the voice of the people.
Quote:
I will contact my government official, not because I’m opposed to background checks at gun shows, but because I’m opposed to them rolling up a bunch of other things under it to try and sneak it in.
Thank you! What we need to have happen is for reasonable people to get educated on these issues and then take action. I realize I step on some toes in my delivery of information but at some point people need to get over it and understand the urgency of these matters. Remember the saying “An armed society is a polite society”. That is very true!
One last thought for now. Why not just outlaw armed robbery and other such crimes? Wouldn’t that be much more simple than trying to regulate everything LEGAL gun owners do?
John, looking at your post it appears as if your not clear on the legs.It would be illegal for, you a private citizen to sell a gun to another citizen.There is no venue for private background checks.
John, looking at your post it appears as if your not clear on the legs.It would be illegal for, you a private citizen to sell a gun to another citizen.There is no venue for private background checks.
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