Stand Your Ground Bill Introduced – Minnesota

  • jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #209844

    We will need to keep an eye on this one. Not sure how much opposition this bill will get. It’s a good law that will bring Minnesota in line with 15 other states.

    AP story followed up by a story printed in todays Pioneer Press.

    ST. PAUL (AP) – A bill introduced at the Legislature would give citizens the right to defend themselves with deadly force against intruders — even when they have the option of retreating.

    Two Republican lawmakers introduced the bill today. Representative Tony Cornish calls the measure the “Stand Your Ground” legislation and says it’s about protecting homeowners and property owners.

    Foes call it a “shoot first, ask questions later” proposal that would bring a cowboy attitude to Minnesota.

    Under current law, it’s justifiable to kill someone in your house if you fear the person will cause you great bodily harm or death — or to prevent a felony.

    The proposal would allow people to use deadly force if there is a fear of substantial bodily harm.

    (Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

    Pioneeer Press:

    Is gun bill for safety or license to shoot?
    Measure would extend spaces for justified use of deadly force
    BY RACHEL E. STASSEN-BERGER
    Pioneer Press
    Gun-rights advocates say the measure grants law-abiding citizens the right to defend themselves against attackers without being forced to retreat.

    Opponents say it grants people the right to “shoot first, ask questions later” and could turn Minnesota into the Wild West.

    Welcome to the latest debate about guns. The debate will land in Minnesota today as lawmakers introduce the measure known as the “Castle Doctrine.”

    The proposal gets its name from the adage that your home is your castle, and it stems from the idea that you should be able to protect your castle with force if necessary. According to the National Rifle Association, which is backing the measure, similar laws have passed in 15 states since 2005.

    “This is a homeowner, property-owner defense bill. It’s not radical,” said Rep. Tony Cornish, R-Good Thunder, the proposal’s sponsor in the House.

    Cornish, a former police officer, calls the measure the “Stand Your Ground” legislation.

    “I think it’s easily defensible,” he said.

    Sen. Pat Pariseau, R-Farmington, is the measure’s Senate sponsor.

    If the measure becomes law, the state would replace the current law that defines justifiable homicide. Current law says it’s justifiable to kill someone in your house if you fear the person will cause you “great bodily harm or death,” or to prevent a felony.

    The new law would extend the justification for the use of deadly force beyond the walls of your home to include your car and any other place you are legally allowed to be. It would allow you to “meet force with superior force” in your defense if you fear substantial bodily harm. Substantial bodily harm is a lesser, more temporary degree of force than great bodily harm.

    Cornish says that’s only right.

    “When I was a cop, if someone would have threatened me and we were in a struggle and he or she broke my finger in the struggle, don’t you think I would have pulled out the hardware? Why in the world wouldn’t we afford a common citizen the same level of self-defense?” he said.

    Opponents say the measure has nothing to do with self-defense.

    “The law is about posturing. It was written by people who want to make it look like they are tough on criminals,” said Zach Ragbourn, spokesman for the Washington, D.C.-based Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

    The Brady campaign has worked against similar laws in other states. According to Ragbourn’s count, which is different from the NRA’s, 10 states have passed the measures, which he calls fake self-defense laws.

    “The system isn’t broken,” he said. “Good people aren’t going to jail for defending their families, for fending off carjackers or muggers. They are not going to jail when someone breaks into their homes.”

    Ramsey County Attorney Susan Gaertner says the proposal is a “solution in search of a problem.”

    “We’ve had no complaints about the law unfairly penalizing people who are simply protecting themselves,” she said. “If we had, then I might understand why this is cropping up. But the fact that it is being raised now is just, to me, is a train of thought that let’s bring the Wild, Wild West to the Midwest.”

    An Anoka County shooting from late last year might influence the debate at the Capitol.

    In November, Gerald Whaley, of Coon Rapids, shot and killed 17-year-old Tony Parks after Parks broke into his house at 11 p.m. Bryan Lindberg, of the Anoka County attorney’s office, said prosecutors haven’t decided whether to charge Whaley with a crime.

    Those who say the new law isn’t needed might see their argument bolstered if Whaley isn’t charged. If he is, the proposal’s backers could pick up support.

    Right now, the legislative landscape might not be welcoming to the measure.

    “It is a lead duck,” said Bill Gillespie, executive director of the Minnesota Police and Peace Officers Association. The organization’s board opposes the measure. “I don’t even expect one hearing.”

    Sen. Linda Higgins, DFL-Minneapolis, who calls the proposal the “shoot-to-kill legislation,” believes it wouldn’t have the support to survive a Senate committee vote if it did get a hearing.

    But Cornish said he’s ready for the fight.

    “It’s going to be a real effort,” he said. “We know we are in for a real battle here.”

    And, he said, he’s ready to prove detractors wrong.

    “It’s not an encouragement to turn it into the Wild West or to give them an excuse to shoot people,” he said. “It enables them to protect themselves legally and it puts the onus on the criminal and the state to prove they were wrong.”

    Rachel E. Stassen-Berger can be reached at [email protected].

    Steve Root
    South St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 5589
    #28697

    Quote:


    Foes call it a “shoot first, ask questions later” proposal that would bring a cowboy attitude to Minnesota.


    Didn’t they trot this same horse out of the barn when the conceal and carry law was first being debated? I seem to remember there were some people convinced we’d be driving down the freeways shooting at each other.

    I like this. Deterence works. If the local meth head thinks you may be waiting on the other side of the door with a 12ga he probably won’t bother you..IMHO…

    Rootski

    Steve Root
    South St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 5589
    #531381

    Quote:


    Foes call it a “shoot first, ask questions later” proposal that would bring a cowboy attitude to Minnesota.


    Didn’t they trot this same horse out of the barn when the conceal and carry law was first being debated? I seem to remember there were some people convinced we’d be driving down the freeways shooting at each other.

    I like this. Deterence works. If the local meth head thinks you may be waiting on the other side of the door with a 12ga he probably won’t bother you..IMHO…

    Rootski

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #28698

    Quote:


    Opponents say it grants people the right to “shoot first, ask questions later” and could turn Minnesota into the Wild West.


    I agree 100%. These quotes are so lame.

    Even though the Dems are in control of the House and Senate, I don’t think they want to PO the “Gun” vote here in Mn.

    However, the legislature has already said they wanted to focus more on the “bread and butter” issues this session. They didn’t want to get bogged down with gay marriage, abortion and stadium retoric. I can see this getting tabled rather quickly. That’s fine as long as it is not voted down.

    Will need to wait and see.

    -J.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #531389

    Quote:


    Opponents say it grants people the right to “shoot first, ask questions later” and could turn Minnesota into the Wild West.


    I agree 100%. These quotes are so lame.

    Even though the Dems are in control of the House and Senate, I don’t think they want to PO the “Gun” vote here in Mn.

    However, the legislature has already said they wanted to focus more on the “bread and butter” issues this session. They didn’t want to get bogged down with gay marriage, abortion and stadium retoric. I can see this getting tabled rather quickly. That’s fine as long as it is not voted down.

    Will need to wait and see.

    -J.

    fishinallday
    Montrose Mn
    Posts: 2101
    #28699

    “Foes call it a “shoot first, ask questions later” proposal that would bring a cowboy attitude to Minnesota.”

    GOOD! It’s about time! Criminals are the ones that should be scared. Not law abiding citizens.

    fishinallday
    Montrose Mn
    Posts: 2101
    #531394

    “Foes call it a “shoot first, ask questions later” proposal that would bring a cowboy attitude to Minnesota.”

    GOOD! It’s about time! Criminals are the ones that should be scared. Not law abiding citizens.

    fishinallday
    Montrose Mn
    Posts: 2101
    #28700

    Looks like we all dave the same thought! What a bunck of .

    fishinallday
    Montrose Mn
    Posts: 2101
    #531395

    Looks like we all dave the same thought! What a bunck of .

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #28701

    I grew up in S.C. and there the law was pretty straight forward at that time. If someone broke into your home you could legally drop them dead in their tracks as long as certain criteria was met.

    1. The intruder used forced entry to get into the home.

    2. The bullet entered in the front of the body.

    3. The intruder dropped dead inside the house, not back thru the door. In essence, he was “inside” the house at the time you shot.

    Mind you now, I moved away from S.C. in 1970, things might have changed since then with all that Yankee blood moving down there and all, but at the time, burglury was never a problem!!

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #531404

    I grew up in S.C. and there the law was pretty straight forward at that time. If someone broke into your home you could legally drop them dead in their tracks as long as certain criteria was met.

    1. The intruder used forced entry to get into the home.

    2. The bullet entered in the front of the body.

    3. The intruder dropped dead inside the house, not back thru the door. In essence, he was “inside” the house at the time you shot.

    Mind you now, I moved away from S.C. in 1970, things might have changed since then with all that Yankee blood moving down there and all, but at the time, burglury was never a problem!!

    david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #28702

    I dont really see what is so different about what is proposed?

    Bodily harm is bodily harm.. Do you really think I am going to avoid shooting someone that broke into my home because I took a millisecond to consider what level of bodily harm they were going to cause me when they didnt retreat seeing I am there.

    I dont want to sound like a cowboy.. but that millisecond would be taken making the best aim possible before/while pulling the trigger.

    I dont have to worry about legal if I’m dead already, and I’m not going to care what was legal laying in the hospital on life support if the situation was avoidable by use of deadly force in my own home.

    david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #531426

    I dont really see what is so different about what is proposed?

    Bodily harm is bodily harm.. Do you really think I am going to avoid shooting someone that broke into my home because I took a millisecond to consider what level of bodily harm they were going to cause me when they didnt retreat seeing I am there.

    I dont want to sound like a cowboy.. but that millisecond would be taken making the best aim possible before/while pulling the trigger.

    I dont have to worry about legal if I’m dead already, and I’m not going to care what was legal laying in the hospital on life support if the situation was avoidable by use of deadly force in my own home.

    nick
    Lakeville, MN
    Posts: 4977
    #28703

    I really hope the congress can save us from the most law abiding people in the state….

    nick
    Lakeville, MN
    Posts: 4977
    #531428

    I really hope the congress can save us from the most law abiding people in the state….

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #28704

    Dave,

    The law would give you the same protection you now have inside your house anywhere you can legally carry. Right now, you would need to convince a jury there was nowhere to run if you killed someone attacking you outside of your “Castle”. It’s a good law.

    -J.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #531429

    Dave,

    The law would give you the same protection you now have inside your house anywhere you can legally carry. Right now, you would need to convince a jury there was nowhere to run if you killed someone attacking you outside of your “Castle”. It’s a good law.

    -J.

    david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #28705

    JJ..

    thanks for the clarification.

    Makes sense to me

    david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #531433

    JJ..

    thanks for the clarification.

    Makes sense to me

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #28706

    Quote:


    Dave,

    The law would give you the same protection you now have inside your house anywhere you can legally carry. Right now, you would need to convince a jury there was nowhere to run if you killed someone attacking you outside of your “Castle”. It’s a good law.

    -J.


    I think you would still have to meet all the conditions of self defense though, wouldn’t you think?

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #531437

    Quote:


    Dave,

    The law would give you the same protection you now have inside your house anywhere you can legally carry. Right now, you would need to convince a jury there was nowhere to run if you killed someone attacking you outside of your “Castle”. It’s a good law.

    -J.


    I think you would still have to meet all the conditions of self defense though, wouldn’t you think?

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #28707

    Yes. Right now you do. Just because someone breaks into your house doesn’t give you carte blanche to blast them. You need to prove they intended harm to you and you had no other options. In other words if you can’t prove that you went an hid in your basement to avoid the bodily hard you could be convicted of murder if you blasted the intruder. This bill give you the right to stand your ground and have no obligation to retreat. Both in your house and on the street.

    It’s funny that most people think you can blast anyone who breaks into your house. Fact is you can’t!

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #531442

    Yes. Right now you do. Just because someone breaks into your house doesn’t give you carte blanche to blast them. You need to prove they intended harm to you and you had no other options. In other words if you can’t prove that you went an hid in your basement to avoid the bodily hard you could be convicted of murder if you blasted the intruder. This bill give you the right to stand your ground and have no obligation to retreat. Both in your house and on the street.

    It’s funny that most people think you can blast anyone who breaks into your house. Fact is you can’t!

    david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #28756

    JJ.. thats all we need, people breaking an entering telling me I cant legally shoot them

    david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #531486

    JJ.. thats all we need, people breaking an entering telling me I cant legally shoot them

    pafollmer
    Brooklyn Center MN
    Posts: 181
    #28757

    HELL HATH NO FURY THEN A MAN PROTECTING HIS FAMILY,

    Come to my house in the night and break in, if the dog dont git ya I will.

    I SAY COWBOY UP

    pafollmer
    Brooklyn Center MN
    Posts: 181
    #531487

    HELL HATH NO FURY THEN A MAN PROTECTING HIS FAMILY,

    Come to my house in the night and break in, if the dog dont git ya I will.

    I SAY COWBOY UP

    schrumy
    Clearwater MN
    Posts: 183
    #28759

    Quote:


    It’s funny that most people think you can blast anyone who breaks into your house. Fact is you can’t!



    Wouldn’t it be his/her word against yours??? Never heard a dead man testify

    schrumy
    Clearwater MN
    Posts: 183
    #531532

    Quote:


    It’s funny that most people think you can blast anyone who breaks into your house. Fact is you can’t!



    Wouldn’t it be his/her word against yours??? Never heard a dead man testify

    mwal
    Rosemount,MN
    Posts: 1048
    #28774

    I sure hope this passes. The curerent law says bodily harm or committing a felony isn’t breaking and entry a felony?

    Mwal

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