Permit holder shoots mugger in NY

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/09/wh…r.ap/index.html

Well, I think it is rather interesting that she was on her way to the shooting range.
NEW YORK (AP) — Margaret Johnson might have looked like an easy target.

But when a mugger tried to grab a chain off her neck Friday, the wheelchair-bound 56-year-old pulled out her licensed .357 pistol and shot him, police said.

Johnson said she was in Manhattan’s Harlem neighborhood on her way to a shooting range when the man, identified by police as 45-year-old Deron Johnson, came up from behind and went for the chain.

“There’s not much to it,” she said in a brief interview. “Somebody tried to mug me, and I shot him.”

Deron Johnson was taken to Harlem Hospital with a single bullet wound in the elbow, police said. He faces a robbery charge, said Lt. John Grimpel, a police spokesman.

Margaret Johnson, who lives in Harlem, has a permit for the weapon and does not face charges, Grimpel said. She also was taken to the hospital with minor injuries and later released.

Lady in wheelchair 1
Bad Guy 0

Lady in wheelchair 1
Bad Guy 0

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Lady in wheelchair 1
Bad Guy 0

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As it should be!!!

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Lady in wheelchair 1
Bad Guy 0

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As it should be!!!

I support her as well but would this be considered justified to shoot someone over a chain? This is why I’m still debating getting a permit. MN law states self defense only applies when you are not able to get out of the situation. Do you think a MN court would have considered this self defense even though her life was not in danger? It just scares me knowing if I ever had to use a gun, there’s a possibility some jerk prosecutor would charge me with a felony.

I support her as well but would this be considered justified to shoot someone over a chain? This is why I’m still debating getting a permit. MN law states self defense only applies when you are not able to get out of the situation. Do you think a MN court would have considered this self defense even though her life was not in danger? It just scares me knowing if I ever had to use a gun, there’s a possibility some jerk prosecutor would charge me with a felony.

It would not be justified here in Minnesota. I am a current carrier of a hand gun with permit. If it is not life threatening then it is not justifyable. If there is a escape option then you use it even if you have a gun. One should try and avoid using there weapon and should only use it in a last resort situation. And then again there is only a small window for that use. I believe she will face charges eventually. This is where I stand neutral do to the situation and maybe there is more to the story. But this type of story usually causes more fuss about rights to bare arms.

It would not be justified here in Minnesota. I am a current carrier of a hand gun with permit. If it is not life threatening then it is not justifyable. If there is a escape option then you use it even if you have a gun. One should try and avoid using there weapon and should only use it in a last resort situation. And then again there is only a small window for that use. I believe she will face charges eventually. This is where I stand neutral do to the situation and maybe there is more to the story. But this type of story usually causes more fuss about rights to bare arms.

Brian link is not working… Says page cannot be found but is still CNN home page.. Maybe there sites problem and not ours…

Brian link is not working… Says page cannot be found but is still CNN home page.. Maybe there sites problem and not ours…

Derek,
the good news on if you ever really ended up in a situation of using the gun is no matter what you are charged with you still have to be judged by 12 of your peers, that is what they told us in our class. So then atleast you have a 50/50 chance…

Derek,
the good news on if you ever really ended up in a situation of using the gun is no matter what you are charged with you still have to be judged by 12 of your peers, that is what they told us in our class. So then atleast you have a 50/50 chance…

Good point Derek.

In MN (as I’m not aware of the laws in other states)she would be obligated to flee..and only using deadly force in a last resort to escape “great bodily harm or death”.

In the MN CC classes they that stopping a robber from stealing…car..belongings ect is not a reason to use deadly force…give it up, call the police and collect insurance.

IF the paper reports an accurate portrayal of what happen…she would be in trouble in MN….I would think. Many other pieces come into play, police dept’s and the DA.

I would not have pulled it out.

Good point Derek.

In MN (as I’m not aware of the laws in other states)she would be obligated to flee..and only using deadly force in a last resort to escape “great bodily harm or death”.

In the MN CC classes they that stopping a robber from stealing…car..belongings ect is not a reason to use deadly force…give it up, call the police and collect insurance.

IF the paper reports an accurate portrayal of what happen…she would be in trouble in MN….I would think. Many other pieces come into play, police dept’s and the DA.

I would not have pulled it out.

Hmmm,

if someone tried to rip my gold chain off my neck it would cause me to choke considerably b/f it broke. A 56 Y/O handicapped women in a chair has little chance to defend her self physically or remove herself from the situation. I would hope that she doesn’t get charged with anything. Seems pretty cut and dry to me; her life was in danger and she protected herself with a properly registered firearm.

Dude’s lucky he was only shot once.

Hmmm,

if someone tried to rip my gold chain off my neck it would cause me to choke considerably b/f it broke. A 56 Y/O handicapped women in a chair has little chance to defend her self physically or remove herself from the situation. I would hope that she doesn’t get charged with anything. Seems pretty cut and dry to me; her life was in danger and she protected herself with a properly registered firearm.

Dude’s lucky he was only shot once.

I hear you chambers…but I’ve been fooled too many times by newspaper reports.

I thought I read a newspaper report that he was running away when she shot him…but I can’t find it to verify.

Bottom line (in my book anyway) is the he got what he had coming…a bullit wound and she got what she had coming…her necklace back.

Sometimes there doesn’t have to be a law for justice to prevail…

I hear you chambers…but I’ve been fooled too many times by newspaper reports.

I thought I read a newspaper report that he was running away when she shot him…but I can’t find it to verify.

Bottom line (in my book anyway) is the he got what he had coming…a bullit wound and she got what she had coming…her necklace back.

Sometimes there doesn’t have to be a law for justice to prevail…

#1 she was in A WHEEL CHAIR so I don’t think running was an option.
#2 All she has to do is convince a jury of her peers that SHE felt her life was in danger. (Old lady in a wheel chair, I could live with it.)

#1 she was in A WHEEL CHAIR so I don’t think running was an option.
#2 All she has to do is convince a jury of her peers that SHE felt her life was in danger. (Old lady in a wheel chair, I could live with it.)

Maybe the law should be changed. There have been several incidents in Minneapolis this summer where the mugging victim gave up his wallet or letter jacket or whatever and then got shot anyway. Cooperating with the mugger is no guarantee that you’re going to walk away.
I think if you decide to commit a crime, then you should face the real possiblility that someone else is going to shoot you.

Rootski

Maybe the law should be changed. There have been several incidents in Minneapolis this summer where the mugging victim gave up his wallet or letter jacket or whatever and then got shot anyway. Cooperating with the mugger is no guarantee that you’re going to walk away.
I think if you decide to commit a crime, then you should face the real possiblility that someone else is going to shoot you.

Rootski

Rootski,

You have a very good point there. I have always made one pack with myself since getting my permit. During a confrontation if they are close enough to me to possibly get my weapon then take them out and of coarse we must administer the proper CPR.Which I believe is knee on throat and make sure you do proper CPR….

But again I will look for an escape before taking that type of action. And as far as being in a wheel chair not to easy to run away. In that situation I would have to opt to the mugger.

Rootski,

You have a very good point there. I have always made one pack with myself since getting my permit. During a confrontation if they are close enough to me to possibly get my weapon then take them out and of coarse we must administer the proper CPR.Which I believe is knee on throat and make sure you do proper CPR….

But again I will look for an escape before taking that type of action. And as far as being in a wheel chair not to easy to run away. In that situation I would have to opt to the mugger.

I guess I’m assuming the report is correct; however, I should know better. Long day in the lab, too many chemicals, lack of sleep and fishing… all impairs my judgement.

Anyway, if the report is accurate as I read it that’s how it should be.

I guess I’m assuming the report is correct; however, I should know better. Long day in the lab, too many chemicals, lack of sleep and fishing… all impairs my judgement.

Anyway, if the report is accurate as I read it that’s how it should be.

I’ll bet most of the dept. is really going to look down on the prosicutor if charges are filed and maybe he won’t be voted in next time, something to think about. If i was in a wheelchair and this happened to me i’d shoot the guy too, i wouldn’t even worry about what a jury would say. They’ll probably all think its too bad she didn’t hit the vitals! Makes alot of would be robbers think who and who isn’t carrying protection. If she ever was stupidly convicted the judge would probably suspend any sentance anyway or face not being on the bench much longer.

I’ll bet most of the dept. is really going to look down on the prosicutor if charges are filed and maybe he won’t be voted in next time, something to think about. If i was in a wheelchair and this happened to me i’d shoot the guy too, i wouldn’t even worry about what a jury would say. They’ll probably all think its too bad she didn’t hit the vitals! Makes alot of would be robbers think who and who isn’t carrying protection. If she ever was stupidly convicted the judge would probably suspend any sentance anyway or face not being on the bench much longer.

From another paper…. If these new report is true…I change my stance.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/450805p-379460c.html

Punk picked wrong gran!

She shoots mugger in Harlem

BY KERRY BURKE, ETHAN SACKS and MICHAEL WHITE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Margaret Johnson shot mugger from motorized wheelchair.

A pistol-packing Harlem granny turned the tables on a robber yesterday, busting out her registered .357 magnum and shooting the mugger in the elbow – while riding in her motorized scooter, cops said.
Feisty Margaret Johnson, 57, who has a dislocated hip and a herniated disk, was heading out for target practice about 3 p.m. when a career criminal came up behind her and went for her necklaces, sources said.

“There’s not much to it,” she said later. “Somebody tried to mug me, and I shot him.”

The thief “walked past her, and came around and choked her,” said Johnson’s pal, Lynnell Bunce, 40. “He was going for her jewelry, and he got it. He didn’t say anything – until she shot him.”

Then the man cursed and fled from the scene outside 470 Lenox Ave., where the victim has lived for decades, Bunce said.

“I’m very tired. It was very scary,” Johnson said as she later entered her building in her three-wheeled scooter with scratches on her neck and left hand. “I’ve had a very long day.”

Police followed the trail of the wounded man’s blood to a McDonald’s restaurant not far from Johnson’s building and arrested 45-year-old Deron Johnson, an ex-con with nine robbery arrests who is no relation to the victim, sources said.

He was in stable condition at Harlem Hospital last night, and charges were pending against him. The jewelry was recovered, officials said.

Margaret Johnson has a premises permit for the gun, a police source said, meaning she is allowed to keep the pistol in her home and transport it to a firing range.

Bunce said her friend, who has a grown son and at least one grandchild, got the permit when she was a bus driver for the city.

Neighbors said Johnson, a granddaughter of a famed Harlem gangster, the late Ellsworth (Bumpy) Johnson, is a well-known and well-liked woman.

“Everyone loves Margaret,” Bunce said. “Margaret is funny. She’s like clockwork. She’s lived here forever, and she walks her dog four times a day and says hello to everybody.”

“She’s spunky,” said Toi Frederick, 26, a lawyer who lives in the same building. “I wouldn’t think she would be someone who would just lay down and give up her stuff.”

Bunce said she walked outside after hearing a commotion and saw her friend sitting in her scooter. “I saw her in the chair, and she was in a state of shock. I said, ‘Margaret, do you need me?’ She said, ‘Yes,’ and I said, ‘Well, Margaret, let’s go.’ “

The pair went to the 32nd Precinct police station, where Johnson told cops her dramatic story.

With Robert F. Moore and News Wire Service Reports

Originally published on September 9, 2006