Crime Rates Post-Conceal and Carry

I am going to have to side with James… a little. I too have felt a little creepy with the conceal carry thing. And this was before the law was passed with friends of mine who are cops and carry when they are not on duty. The first time this happened was in a truck on our way to go fishing, when he stops and pulls his 9mm out of his holster because it is rubbing his side.

This is a guy I have known for most of my life, is a trusted friend, I spend countless hours with in the hunting field, and has gone through the training to be a police officer.
Do I have any reason to be concerned with him carrying a weapon? None whatsoever.

Is it a little freaky to see him pull his gun out? Yes.

Is it right for me to feel this way about a law abiding citizen? I don’t know.

Has my views on the subject changed since this happened? A little.

Well enough ranting. I guess my point in this whole thing, is that everyone is not comfortable with guns on a person, but think about this. If myself and James (who both are very comfortable around guns) can feel this way, think how the person who does not have any comfort lever with guns because they have not been around them, no firearms safety, media bias against guns, etc, can feel.

This is not meant to become an argument. I feel that a persons 2nd ammendment right and the right to carry is very special and do not want it to go away, but I want everyone to stop and think how this is being looked at my the “other side” with a different emotional view.

Just my $.02. If you feel differently, please let me know. And to James, Thanks for the post. Gets us all thinking!

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I am going to have to side with James… a little. I too have felt a little creepy with the conceal carry thing.

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Here is my take on the “Creepy Factor”…..

It’s all about perception. If people were allowed to carry/carry open your entire life, it would not be a big deal. It’s just something new and different that you need to get used to.

Here is an analogy: Two guys holding hands and kissing out in the open creeps me out. Is it now the norm? No. Have guys been doing it my entire life? No. Are there circles where this is perfectly normal? Yes. Is this something “I” need to come to grips with? Yes.

So just like gays coming out of the closet and “Normalizing” homosexuality, I think every law abiding citizen should arm themselves and come out of the closet and “Normalize” conceal carry! Will 2 guys kissing always creep me out? Probably. But I’m never going to approach them and ask them to stop. Just like I don’t want anyone approaching me asking me to stop carrying…..

-J.

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I am going to have to side with James… a little. I too have felt a little creepy with the conceal carry thing.

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Here is my take on the “Creepy Factor”…..

It’s all about perception. If people were allowed to carry/carry open your entire life, it would not be a big deal. It’s just something new and different that you need to get used to.

Here is an analogy: Two guys holding hands and kissing out in the open creeps me out. Is it now the norm? No. Have guys been doing it my entire life? No. Are there circles where this is perfectly normal? Yes. Is this something “I” need to come to grips with? Yes.

So just like gays coming out of the closet and “Normalizing” homosexuality, I think every law abiding citizen should arm themselves and come out of the closet and “Normalize” conceal carry! Will 2 guys kissing always creep me out? Probably. But I’m never going to approach them and ask them to stop. Just like I don’t want anyone approaching me asking me to stop carrying…..

-J.

Nobody’s asking you or any other person to stop. I think that’s why most are so put back by this post… they immediately rock back into a defensive position and wait for an attack. This isn’t one.

Nobody’s asking you or any other person to stop. I think that’s why most are so put back by this post… they immediately rock back into a defensive position and wait for an attack. This isn’t one.

Didn’t take it as any kind of attack. But will always try to defend the position. The 2 hardest people to turn around were my mom and wife. Both don’t even blink an eye now at the sight of a handgun on my belt. It’s just normal. That’s all I’m “Shooting for”!

edit:

The above post could also have read: “I don’t want anyone asking me to explain why I feel the need to carry here” instead of “Asking me to stop….”

-J.

Didn’t take it as any kind of attack. But will always try to defend the position. The 2 hardest people to turn around were my mom and wife. Both don’t even blink an eye now at the sight of a handgun on my belt. It’s just normal. That’s all I’m “Shooting for”!

edit:

The above post could also have read: “I don’t want anyone asking me to explain why I feel the need to carry here” instead of “Asking me to stop….”

-J.

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It’s all about perception.

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I am in total agreement. All I am saying is it is much easier for guys like us (fishermen, hunters) who are familiar with Guns to come to grips with it, then it is for a 50 year old mother, who has never seen, touched, or held a gun. And the media makes guns out to be this horrible thing that will kill just by looking at it. Yes it is about perception.

A side note on this subject. When I first got married, my Mother in law, asked my wife, if she was going to allow guns in her house. My wife responded that a gun had never hurt anyone, but it was the person behind the gun who causes harm. The reason my wife did this was because she understands guns and how they function. My MIL on the other hand had no grasp of guns other then what the media had told her. Is it about perception, yes. Does it take an extreme effort from each and every one of us to make this stop. Definitely.

I am more then willing to change, and will work on that. I am certainly not saying this law should be repealed, but take a look at how the “other” side looks at the subject. The news media is obviously not interested in the gun rights side of the equation, and the only information most people have is bad, inaccurate information.

And for the record, I will never ask anyone to put there gun away, or not carry around me. That is there right the same as two men kissing.

Another side bar. I sent this link to a guy in my office who has been known to attend Democratic conventions His first response before even reading a line was. “Ohh the Cato institute, you can’t trust them.” Another prime example of people not wanting to become educated, and why we have to try harder.

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It’s all about perception.

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I am in total agreement. All I am saying is it is much easier for guys like us (fishermen, hunters) who are familiar with Guns to come to grips with it, then it is for a 50 year old mother, who has never seen, touched, or held a gun. And the media makes guns out to be this horrible thing that will kill just by looking at it. Yes it is about perception.

A side note on this subject. When I first got married, my Mother in law, asked my wife, if she was going to allow guns in her house. My wife responded that a gun had never hurt anyone, but it was the person behind the gun who causes harm. The reason my wife did this was because she understands guns and how they function. My MIL on the other hand had no grasp of guns other then what the media had told her. Is it about perception, yes. Does it take an extreme effort from each and every one of us to make this stop. Definitely.

I am more then willing to change, and will work on that. I am certainly not saying this law should be repealed, but take a look at how the “other” side looks at the subject. The news media is obviously not interested in the gun rights side of the equation, and the only information most people have is bad, inaccurate information.

And for the record, I will never ask anyone to put there gun away, or not carry around me. That is there right the same as two men kissing.

Another side bar. I sent this link to a guy in my office who has been known to attend Democratic conventions His first response before even reading a line was. “Ohh the Cato institute, you can’t trust them.” Another prime example of people not wanting to become educated, and why we have to try harder.

Mr Holst,

Let me be the first to say Thank You for finding and sharing the facts. I do not have the time always to do so and because of people like yourself who havew a love for themselves and others who took the time to find out. You do a great service for this web site it is by far the best fishing and all around info site I personally have been too. Rarely do you find such avenues of friendship like I have seen shared here. This is an important topic and one that needs to be shared, and read several times to understand it completely.
I love the outdoors and wait to share all that I have been taught to my children, including the right to keep and bear arms.
Again Mr. Holst I applaude you for taking the time to share with all of us at IDA.

I look forward to bumping into you on the river someday or maybe I will see you at the LPO this year I will come over and introduce myself.

Paul
eyedoc

The fish were biting so good I thought it was yesterday

Mr Holst,

Let me be the first to say Thank You for finding and sharing the facts. I do not have the time always to do so and because of people like yourself who havew a love for themselves and others who took the time to find out. You do a great service for this web site it is by far the best fishing and all around info site I personally have been too. Rarely do you find such avenues of friendship like I have seen shared here. This is an important topic and one that needs to be shared, and read several times to understand it completely.
I love the outdoors and wait to share all that I have been taught to my children, including the right to keep and bear arms.
Again Mr. Holst I applaude you for taking the time to share with all of us at IDA.

I look forward to bumping into you on the river someday or maybe I will see you at the LPO this year I will come over and introduce myself.

Paul
eyedoc

The fish were biting so good I thought it was yesterday

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Again Mr. Holst I applaude you for taking the time to share with all of us at IDA.

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My sentiments (sp?) exactly.

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Again Mr. Holst I applaude you for taking the time to share with all of us at IDA.

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My sentiments (sp?) exactly.

Whew! You guys are touchy this morning! I am not looking for a fight. As you see, I thanked you for posting that information. My comments were mainly to bring to everyone’s attention that there are plenty of things you should be concerned about. Like Jon said (And only Jon could compare this to homosexuality! but hey, it works!)it is the perception of what you see as normal. The guy in the resturaunt? I would have asked him if he has an extended magazine for that…and does he also pull to the left like Brian K when he fires it?

Where was the outrage when women started to carry Mace in their purses? It was for self defense.

Guns creep people out, I agree. But I believe the more people use them, and talk about them, it will slowly lose it’s stigma…maybe. Nothing can get a person’s attention more than flashing one when it is not expected. That’s why you don’t do it. Unless you have to, which I hope none of us ever has to experience.

Whew! You guys are touchy this morning! I am not looking for a fight. As you see, I thanked you for posting that information. My comments were mainly to bring to everyone’s attention that there are plenty of things you should be concerned about. Like Jon said (And only Jon could compare this to homosexuality! but hey, it works!)it is the perception of what you see as normal. The guy in the resturaunt? I would have asked him if he has an extended magazine for that…and does he also pull to the left like Brian K when he fires it?

Where was the outrage when women started to carry Mace in their purses? It was for self defense.

Guns creep people out, I agree. But I believe the more people use them, and talk about them, it will slowly lose it’s stigma…maybe. Nothing can get a person’s attention more than flashing one when it is not expected. That’s why you don’t do it. Unless you have to, which I hope none of us ever has to experience.

one thing you might want to try to find james is the growth of law enforcement and how much it has expanded in that amount of time, the training the officers have recieved and the new technology that is out there for them to analyze it you need to look at all of the factors.

one thing you might want to try to find james is the growth of law enforcement and how much it has expanded in that amount of time, the training the officers have recieved and the new technology that is out there for them to analyze it you need to look at all of the factors.

Those factors were addressed in the study and later offered as key issues in error or ommission in follow-up studys in opposition of the findings.

Read the study and then you get to form your opinions.

Those factors were addressed in the study and later offered as key issues in error or ommission in follow-up studys in opposition of the findings.

Read the study and then you get to form your opinions.

don’t want to form an opinion i believe it is a choice to do so as given to us be the bill of rights, but just didn’t see anything on it

don’t want to form an opinion i believe it is a choice to do so as given to us be the bill of rights, but just didn’t see anything on it

Facts:

(“Crime, Deterrence, and Right To Carry Concealed Handguns,” 1996.)

Gun control supporters` false predictions. “Whenever a state legislature first considers a concealed-carry bill, opponents typically warn of horrible consequences….But within a year of passage, the issue usually drops off the news media`s radar screen, while gun-control advocates in the legislature conclude that the law wasn`t so bad after all.” (David Kopel, “The Untold Triumph of Concealed-Carry Permits,” Policy Review, July-Aug. 1996, p. 9.) “Concerns that permit holders would lose their tempers in traffic accidents have been unfounded. Worries about risks to police officers have also proved unfounded….National surveys of police show they support concealed handgun laws by a 3-1 margin….There is also not a single academic study that claims Right to Carry laws have increased state crime rates. The debate among academics has been over how large the benefits have been.” (“Should Michigan keep new concealed weapon law? Don`t believe gun foe scare tactics,” Detroit News, 1/14/01.)

Facts:

(“Crime, Deterrence, and Right To Carry Concealed Handguns,” 1996.)

Gun control supporters` false predictions. “Whenever a state legislature first considers a concealed-carry bill, opponents typically warn of horrible consequences….But within a year of passage, the issue usually drops off the news media`s radar screen, while gun-control advocates in the legislature conclude that the law wasn`t so bad after all.” (David Kopel, “The Untold Triumph of Concealed-Carry Permits,” Policy Review, July-Aug. 1996, p. 9.) “Concerns that permit holders would lose their tempers in traffic accidents have been unfounded. Worries about risks to police officers have also proved unfounded….National surveys of police show they support concealed handgun laws by a 3-1 margin….There is also not a single academic study that claims Right to Carry laws have increased state crime rates. The debate among academics has been over how large the benefits have been.” (“Should Michigan keep new concealed weapon law? Don`t believe gun foe scare tactics,” Detroit News, 1/14/01.)

You guys have some great points. To answer the question about why I don’t CC. I’m not comfortable with pistols. I’ve owned them, shot them some but just never got comfortable handling the short barrels. I do get the “creepy” feeling when around them. I’m a big up and down range guy(military boys understand, it was beat into my head by the old man).

However, I plan to get my CC permit and have the wife take the class with me. I believe it falls back on education. If you are educated on how to handle your pistol, you will not put anyone in harms way. I’m going to start slowly with a revolver. Easy to see it’s empty, when the magazine is open, no shells in chamber etc…

You guys have some great points. To answer the question about why I don’t CC. I’m not comfortable with pistols. I’ve owned them, shot them some but just never got comfortable handling the short barrels. I do get the “creepy” feeling when around them. I’m a big up and down range guy(military boys understand, it was beat into my head by the old man).

However, I plan to get my CC permit and have the wife take the class with me. I believe it falls back on education. If you are educated on how to handle your pistol, you will not put anyone in harms way. I’m going to start slowly with a revolver. Easy to see it’s empty, when the magazine is open, no shells in chamber etc…