Doyle Veto’s Conceal/Carry Bill

jwellsy, no my objective isn’t theft of the weapon it is like Willeye said, this has the potenial to put more weapons on the steet that wouldn’t be there otherwise. Criminals WILL ALWAYS get the guns no matter what, by whatever means they want.

I don’t know if I understand you totally on your problem in the Kmart lot. Why didn’t you put your car in reverse or drive and get out of there? What makes you better than any other thug on the street flashing a gun? Where they armed?

In Wisconsin we have a Force Option Continuim for law enforcement that gives us different levels for the tools we have. I can’t pull my weapon as an officer just because there is a crowd of people who I consider thugs around me. I guess if they were armed with a dangerous weapon that is a little different. Like I said I don’t know the situation.

Going back to the guy doing the hold up in the T-shirt. Are you really going to pull your weapon and shoot him? First most robberies the person, especially if they are, concealing their identity, takes the money and leaves. Second…you pull your pistol he has a SHOTGUN…I doubt he has slugs either. Chances are as an ununiformed person you will be shot and killed. BEING A HERO ISN’T worth it.

Back to the message earlier. Yes I’ve been to these classes for conceal and carry. Did it ease my worries or make me think different about the conceal and carry situation? Some…but there isn’t nearly enough training. A lot of police and even military personel have a hard enough time pulling the trigger because the absolutly have to, to protect themselves much less their family members. If you don’t have that gun you probably won’t put yourself into situations you would need to worry about. Like I said I know you are all for this…and that is fine.

I know our tactics and policies will have to be seriously gone over if it happens. Our Sheriff’s Association has talked to other agencies where this bill is passed and there are many things that have to change. Plus now because I see a gun on a seat of a car or on a dash I have a split second decision to think, pull my gun he’s a threat, don’t pull my gun it’s only Eyejacker going fishing and forgot to put it away, run for the hills, ect….(by the way Eyejacker only an example ) If I’m wrong, I can get shot, nothing will happen, or get sued because I pulled my weapon and knew he was a conceal carry person and should have known he wouldn’t have killed me. My job is bad enough with the bad guys with guns, I don’t want innocent people with them maybe playing hero.

Krisco, part of my family was inside the Kmart and it doesn’t matter if you think I’m a thug too.

Krisco, part of my family was inside the Kmart and it doesn’t matter if you think I’m a thug too.

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What makes you better than any other thug on the street flashing a gun

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Easy….He’s got the gun for the right reasons and not for breaking the law. That what makes him better.

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My job is bad enough with the bad guys with guns, I don’t want innocent people with them maybe playing hero

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No offense Kriso, but If there’s a split decision to be made where my life is on the line, I don’t want to have to wait for you to show up.

What’s your argument against the facts that the other 40 some states that already have this law in place don’t have the problems of increased crime?

Your concerns are honorable…but you already go in each situation not knowing if somebody has a gun…I don’t see where anything changes on your part. YOu mentioned before about walking up on EyeJacker (example) and see a gun on his dash. Well, provided EyeJacker obtained his gun lawfully, you would know upon running a background check. While you will still take caution, at least you know he obtained it lawfully.

Trust me, I hear and respect your concerns, but they’ve all proven not to be issues once this law is passed.

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What makes you better than any other thug on the street flashing a gun

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Easy….He’s got the gun for the right reasons and not for breaking the law. That what makes him better.

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My job is bad enough with the bad guys with guns, I don’t want innocent people with them maybe playing hero

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No offense Kriso, but If there’s a split decision to be made where my life is on the line, I don’t want to have to wait for you to show up.

What’s your argument against the facts that the other 40 some states that already have this law in place don’t have the problems of increased crime?

Your concerns are honorable…but you already go in each situation not knowing if somebody has a gun…I don’t see where anything changes on your part. YOu mentioned before about walking up on EyeJacker (example) and see a gun on his dash. Well, provided EyeJacker obtained his gun lawfully, you would know upon running a background check. While you will still take caution, at least you know he obtained it lawfully.

Trust me, I hear and respect your concerns, but they’ve all proven not to be issues once this law is passed.

Krisco, with all due respect, all of your arguments have been offered up by anti-gun groups ad-inifitum. The reality is there are very few facts to support your concerns. Your implication that if you carry a concealed weapon you are going to seek out trouble is ungrounded. The notion that we are a bunch of cowboys just waiting for an opportunity to branish a weapon is sheer folly. I find it discerning, to say the least, that you believe there are police oficers, chartered to protect an serve, that may be unable to draw their weapons in a time of crisis. I agree that to draw your gun, regarless of the situation, will in all probability have legal consequenses. I also respect your concerns, after this bill passes which it eventually will, I believe you will discover that your worries were unfounded!

Krisco, with all due respect, all of your arguments have been offered up by anti-gun groups ad-inifitum. The reality is there are very few facts to support your concerns. Your implication that if you carry a concealed weapon you are going to seek out trouble is ungrounded. The notion that we are a bunch of cowboys just waiting for an opportunity to branish a weapon is sheer folly. I find it discerning, to say the least, that you believe there are police oficers, chartered to protect an serve, that may be unable to draw their weapons in a time of crisis. I agree that to draw your gun, regarless of the situation, will in all probability have legal consequenses. I also respect your concerns, after this bill passes which it eventually will, I believe you will discover that your worries were unfounded!

I am neutral on this subject. We have the option in MN to carry. I have chosen not to even though I own many hand guns. I keep them in my home. I would not hesistate in my home to use one if need be, say breaking and entering and being cornered. Thats a no brainer.
I chose not to carry or keep guns in my trucks because I don’t want to deal with any consequences first off. I, like many I’m sure, could be a little too easy to be provoked into pulling a weapon and going off. I know it is not the best choice for me. Secondly, I live in a town of roughly 100,000 people. So thats a fair sized city, but its not Compton. Meaning I can very easily avoid problem areas if there is such areas. I would first drive away from a problem, walk away, give them what little cash I have on me, or just defend myself the way I know best, with my own self.
I know a handful of guys that went out and got their permits as soon as they could. Then after them carrying their guns for awhile they realized they had already lived how many years of their life and have never had a problem where they would have needed a gun, they got their ego kick for awhile and decided to hang it up. Don’t take offense to the last sentence, I am only qouting my friends.
So, while it may work for some, it may not work for others. Doesn’t matter to me either way, just thought I would throw out the “is it really necessary” scenario. Don’t drill me. I AM NUETRAL

I am neutral on this subject. We have the option in MN to carry. I have chosen not to even though I own many hand guns. I keep them in my home. I would not hesistate in my home to use one if need be, say breaking and entering and being cornered. Thats a no brainer.
I chose not to carry or keep guns in my trucks because I don’t want to deal with any consequences first off. I, like many I’m sure, could be a little too easy to be provoked into pulling a weapon and going off. I know it is not the best choice for me. Secondly, I live in a town of roughly 100,000 people. So thats a fair sized city, but its not Compton. Meaning I can very easily avoid problem areas if there is such areas. I would first drive away from a problem, walk away, give them what little cash I have on me, or just defend myself the way I know best, with my own self.
I know a handful of guys that went out and got their permits as soon as they could. Then after them carrying their guns for awhile they realized they had already lived how many years of their life and have never had a problem where they would have needed a gun, they got their ego kick for awhile and decided to hang it up. Don’t take offense to the last sentence, I am only qouting my friends.
So, while it may work for some, it may not work for others. Doesn’t matter to me either way, just thought I would throw out the “is it really necessary” scenario. Don’t drill me. I AM NUETRAL

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So, while it may work for some, it may not work for others. Doesn’t matter to me either way, just thought I would throw out the “is it really necessary” scenario. Don’t drill me. I AM NUETRAL

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I wholeheartedly agree. It is a very personal decision requiring sole searching introspection and is definitly not for everyone.

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So, while it may work for some, it may not work for others. Doesn’t matter to me either way, just thought I would throw out the “is it really necessary” scenario. Don’t drill me. I AM NUETRAL

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I wholeheartedly agree. It is a very personal decision requiring sole searching introspection and is definitly not for everyone.

Love it, kinda says it all.

Love it, kinda says it all.

I’m not planning on carrying all the time. I figure that if it hits the fan I will legally be able to protect myself and my family.

Krisco, just curious.
As a law officer, do you carry all the time, most of the time, or only when you are on dutie?

Thanks for you response.
Clarence

I’m not planning on carrying all the time. I figure that if it hits the fan I will legally be able to protect myself and my family.

Krisco, just curious.
As a law officer, do you carry all the time, most of the time, or only when you are on dutie?

Thanks for you response.
Clarence

Seems you are throwing alot of hypothetical scenarios out bording on paranoia. We are talking about the rights of law abiding people of the USA.
A kneejerk reaction just like the left in Minnesota when the carry and conceal passed. “The streets are going to run red with blood” Did not happen did it? Law abiding citizens!
as far as the crimials are concerned, it may make them think twice before robbing the local Quick stop.
Hypothetically, concerning a store robbery, like on the t-shirt. Before the crook could swing his shotgun around, I would already have six rounds out of the chamber! make it perfectly understood that this would be on the grounds that I saw the crime taking place and knew exactly what the situation was. That either my or other innocent people’s lives were threatened.
Krisco, this is not a personal attact on you. Just sick and tired of the laws protecting the crooks!

Seems you are throwing alot of hypothetical scenarios out bording on paranoia. We are talking about the rights of law abiding people of the USA.
A kneejerk reaction just like the left in Minnesota when the carry and conceal passed. “The streets are going to run red with blood” Did not happen did it? Law abiding citizens!
as far as the crimials are concerned, it may make them think twice before robbing the local Quick stop.
Hypothetically, concerning a store robbery, like on the t-shirt. Before the crook could swing his shotgun around, I would already have six rounds out of the chamber! make it perfectly understood that this would be on the grounds that I saw the crime taking place and knew exactly what the situation was. That either my or other innocent people’s lives were threatened.
Krisco, this is not a personal attact on you. Just sick and tired of the laws protecting the crooks!

So I guess we should hope this doesnt get passed because apparently now we have no gun crimes. Well we should just leave things the way they are, dont police tend to assume everyone is armed and dangerous? If I was in that profession I would, paranioa can be a good thing. For the record I appreciate all the police do for us I wouldnt want the job, but I think anyone who would go through the training for concealed carry is not worth worrying about, worry about the guy’s already carrying guns with no training and criminal activity on their mind. For the record I have no intention of getting a concealed carry permit but I have no problem with people getting one, I think it will make the bad guys think twice before pulling theirs. Which they already do.

So I guess we should hope this doesnt get passed because apparently now we have no gun crimes. Well we should just leave things the way they are, dont police tend to assume everyone is armed and dangerous? If I was in that profession I would, paranioa can be a good thing. For the record I appreciate all the police do for us I wouldnt want the job, but I think anyone who would go through the training for concealed carry is not worth worrying about, worry about the guy’s already carrying guns with no training and criminal activity on their mind. For the record I have no intention of getting a concealed carry permit but I have no problem with people getting one, I think it will make the bad guys think twice before pulling theirs. Which they already do.

I’m glad this topic was posted. I think many people are uninformed (both sides – including me) and this is a great way to talk about them.

Personally, I believe there isn’t anything more valuable than a persons life…any person, criminal or outstanding citizens….they are equal. It’s a life.

Concealed carry instruction is based on teaching three things in general. 1) How to NOT shoot yourself or others while carrying. 2) What’s going to happen to you (and your family) if you ever pull the trigger. 3) In what types of scenerios deadly force is/isn’t justified.

I’m not an instructor, but I can’t say what I got out of the class that Joe Penaz held for us.

Anyone in the State of MN that would try to help a victim of a crime with deadly force will likely be going to jail. This is what 911 and the police are for.

If you can avoid, talk your way out of it or run away from the threat…do it! Deadly force is the last resort when YOU or your family is being threatened with great bodily harm or death.

If the above is true, then either way…someone is going to die, and again…personally, I would rather it be the other person than me. With CC, the choice is mine (whether I carry and have a chance), without it, I’m going to die.

Looking at Chicago, all hand guns are banned. Police and bad guys have guns. The media doesn’t report “shootings” anylonger because they wouldn’t have time for weather and sports.

In the scenerio of EJ being stopped by an officer. IF I were the officer, I would be more comfortable SEEing a gun laying on the seat than wondering if he had one concealed…forget about any permit or training EJ had.
Also, if EJ was a law abiding citizen (by the way he is :-)) he would know to keep his hands on the steering wheel or in the case of a hand gun on the seat…OUT THE WINDOW while he’s explaining to the officer that he is a card holder and he should be telling you there’s a gun on the seat. Then wait for directions from the officer.

One more time, personally, I feel owning or carrying is, or should be up to the individual to make that choice.

I’m glad this topic was posted. I think many people are uninformed (both sides – including me) and this is a great way to talk about them.

Personally, I believe there isn’t anything more valuable than a persons life…any person, criminal or outstanding citizens….they are equal. It’s a life.

Concealed carry instruction is based on teaching three things in general. 1) How to NOT shoot yourself or others while carrying. 2) What’s going to happen to you (and your family) if you ever pull the trigger. 3) In what types of scenerios deadly force is/isn’t justified.

I’m not an instructor, but I can’t say what I got out of the class that Joe Penaz held for us.

Anyone in the State of MN that would try to help a victim of a crime with deadly force will likely be going to jail. This is what 911 and the police are for.

If you can avoid, talk your way out of it or run away from the threat…do it! Deadly force is the last resort when YOU or your family is being threatened with great bodily harm or death.

If the above is true, then either way…someone is going to die, and again…personally, I would rather it be the other person than me. With CC, the choice is mine (whether I carry and have a chance), without it, I’m going to die.

Looking at Chicago, all hand guns are banned. Police and bad guys have guns. The media doesn’t report “shootings” anylonger because they wouldn’t have time for weather and sports.

In the scenerio of EJ being stopped by an officer. IF I were the officer, I would be more comfortable SEEing a gun laying on the seat than wondering if he had one concealed…forget about any permit or training EJ had.
Also, if EJ was a law abiding citizen (by the way he is :-)) he would know to keep his hands on the steering wheel or in the case of a hand gun on the seat…OUT THE WINDOW while he’s explaining to the officer that he is a card holder and he should be telling you there’s a gun on the seat. Then wait for directions from the officer.

One more time, personally, I feel owning or carrying is, or should be up to the individual to make that choice.

Krisko wrote:

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I know our tactics and policies will have to be seriously gone over if it happens. Our Sheriff’s Association has talked to other agencies where this bill is passed and there are many things that have to change.

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Yep….. and for good reason.

-J.

Krisko wrote:

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I know our tactics and policies will have to be seriously gone over if it happens. Our Sheriff’s Association has talked to other agencies where this bill is passed and there are many things that have to change.

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Yep….. and for good reason.

-J.

I said it before, Toronto is celebrating a record year of handgun crimes in a city where they are banned. Only the criminals and cops have guns.

I said it before, Toronto is celebrating a record year of handgun crimes in a city where they are banned. Only the criminals and cops have guns.

Clearance, I only carry a weapon when I’m on duty, or hunting . I guess I don’t fee the need to carry one. I never put myself in situations where I need one when I’m not working.

As far as the robbery, if you shoot him because he is standing there with a gun robbing a place. Trust me you will be sitting more time than him…

Oh and by the way the several PM’s I got…I’m not an ANTI GUN person. As I said before, most of you on here I wouldn’t have a problem with carrying…My problem is with the tons of “cowboys” we have that can pass the test and carry and put themselves in situations they never should have been in.

Clearance, I only carry a weapon when I’m on duty, or hunting . I guess I don’t fee the need to carry one. I never put myself in situations where I need one when I’m not working.

As far as the robbery, if you shoot him because he is standing there with a gun robbing a place. Trust me you will be sitting more time than him…

Oh and by the way the several PM’s I got…I’m not an ANTI GUN person. As I said before, most of you on here I wouldn’t have a problem with carrying…My problem is with the tons of “cowboys” we have that can pass the test and carry and put themselves in situations they never should have been in.

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My problem is with the tons of “cowboys” we have that can pass the test and carry and put themselves in situations they never should have been in.

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Perception or reality? I can say the same thing about guys on the St Paul Police Dept.

Perception or reality? You line in Chippewa Falls, I live in St Paul. Come spend a few weeks over here! How many crack houses and meth labs are down the street from your house? Not to mention free range pit bulls!

You can have your reasons for not wanting CC in your town. Just don’t forget, they are after all Your reasons, don’t try to impose them on me!

Your arguments so far are not based on any facts. They are simply based on your perception of your reality and what is good for you and your job.

-J.

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My problem is with the tons of “cowboys” we have that can pass the test and carry and put themselves in situations they never should have been in.

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Perception or reality? I can say the same thing about guys on the St Paul Police Dept.

Perception or reality? You line in Chippewa Falls, I live in St Paul. Come spend a few weeks over here! How many crack houses and meth labs are down the street from your house? Not to mention free range pit bulls!

You can have your reasons for not wanting CC in your town. Just don’t forget, they are after all Your reasons, don’t try to impose them on me!

Your arguments so far are not based on any facts. They are simply based on your perception of your reality and what is good for you and your job.

-J.

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They are simply based on your perception of your reality and what is good for you and your job.

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I would have to say that this would include me, change “job” to “world”.

Getting back to facts…it is a fact that a very small % of people actually carry full time after taking a permit class.

I’m going to have to look for some statistics.