Tariffs?

all I know is 4 years of past policy and doing noting has led us to where we are now, sometimes you got to rip the band aid off so a wound cane heal.

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-008-20%20Fentanyl%20Flow%20in%20the%20United%20States_0.pdf

Fentanyl flow into the US. Source DEA. Not sure what that college professor is referring to. Lots of info out there on this.

Let’s see what happens in the next 6 months. Fair enough?

Don Meier wrote:

Stating Canada should be the next US state ? That we can buy Greenland ? That we will take Panama ?? Rename Gulf of Mexico ? What has that got to do with his campaign promises to end the war in Ukraine on Day one ? To lower grocery prices ? He has gutted the FAA on day one , forbid the CDC experts from communicating with The World Health Organization ? Putting tariffs on an ally like Canada ? Tariffs will only lead to higher cost for the consumer . When trump was asked how he would lower crazy high rent , he said drill baby drill ???? WTF The next 4 years is going to be a real poop show , get the popcorn and hope he does not accidently get us into a war !

It’s the gulf of America.

Please read the news in regards to the Panama Canal.

Don’t be afraid of winning.

Where are we going to get the labor force to expand manufacturing? It seems like everyplace is short-staffed with no end in sight. This on top of deporting people who are working in the country now? Many of those doing tough jobs in agriculture, construction, and hospitality. I really don’t hear much talk of reforming the visa process.

Doesn’t it help us out also when Mexico has some decent manufacturing jobs?

These tariffs are going have a tough time achieving the intended goals due to the lack of competition we have in some many industries. About everything I can think of is controlled by a couple of, or at best a handful of companies. They might be under different brands, but the ownership is under the same company. They will just raise prices. An example would be beer. Go into the liquor store and you might see a bunch of brands but almost all of them are either made by Inbev or Molson/Coors.

candiru wrote:

Where are we going to get the labor force to expand manufacturing?

Unemployed federal workers.

On the trade argument, we have been averaging around a $78B per month trade deficit. This is dollars leaving the country each month. This leads to a devalued dollar. I.E. inflation. I would say that’s not sustainable. Will tariffs help correct that? Like I said, time will tell.

Canada has a election coming up I think, things may change then, until then NO MAPLE SYURIP FOR YOU.

If I am not mistaken the immigrants that work in agriculture have a program they go through to work here.
I know in the construction side of things they have green cards. I know this because I have been working with them for the past 20 years. The company I used to work for would not hire them if they didn’t have proper documentation.

Something that never gets discussed when it comes to immigrant work force is the money that leaves the country. A lot of green card workers send a huge portion back to Mexico.
This does nothing to help our economy.

Full draw wrote:

Something that never gets discussed when it comes to immigrant work force is the money that leaves the country. A lot of green card workers send a huge portion back to Mexico.
This does nothing to help our economy.

Agreed. I have had the pleasure to work with a ton of consultants from India over the last 20 years and they are some wonderful people, very hard working, educated and the nicest around. They do indeed send a ton of the money they make here back to India because the money they make here is far and away more than they would make if they stayed in India. At one time I had around 30 that reported to me now we are down to a very small fraction of that and every one of them is offshore.

Don Meier wrote:

Stating Canada should be the next US state ? That we can buy Greenland ? That we will take Panama ?? Rename Gulf of Mexico ? What has that got to do with his campaign promises to end the war in Ukraine on Day one ? To lower grocery prices ? He has gutted the FAA on day one , forbid the CDC experts from communicating with The World Health Organization ? Putting tariffs on an ally like Canada ? Tariffs will only lead to higher cost for the consumer . When trump was asked how he would lower crazy high rent , he said drill baby drill ???? WTF The next 4 years is going to be a real poop show , get the popcorn and hope he does not accidently get us into a war !

Only time will tell what the next 4 years will bring. I know what the prior 4 years have been like and I was not much of a fan of it. We traded a guy who didn’t know his own name on most days for a guy who has a ton of business knowledge and was doing an excellent job of improving the US economy during his last time in office. If I’m wrong in 4 years I’ll say I was wrong. But I feel like we will be a better country then than we where when he took office.

Pitter patter wrote:

4years of this and Mexico is going to have to build a wall to keep Americans out

Then you better get yourself there before it happens. Let us all know how well that works out for you. My guess is not as well as it’s worked for their illegal immigrants here.

Full draw wrote:

February 3, 2025 at 7:24 am#2314800
If I am not mistaken the immigrants that work in agriculture have a program they go through to work here.
I know in the construction side of things they have green cards. I know this because I have been working with them for the past 20 years. The company I used to work for would not hire them if they didn’t have proper documentation.

There is quite the network in the U.S. for obtaining fake/illegal identification. The place that I used to work at employed multiple Mexican employees which all had what look to be legal identification. It was not unusual for one not show up for 1 or more weeks. When they showed back up looking to work they had a new ID with a different name on it.

Beast wrote:

all I know is 4 years of past policy and doing noting has led us to where we are now, sometimes you got to rip the band aid off so a wound cane heal.

How is adding to inflation going to solve anything?

The tariffs will be on the wholesale cost of the product – not directly on the retail. If you’re importing items for $5 and selling for $15, now your import cost goes to $6 – how much of that do you need to pass on?

Maybe all of it to criticize the current administration…

Whereas those who cry for the evil corporations to pay their “fair share” – I gotta believe 100% of that will be passed on because that’s on the retail income – cutting into the bottom line harder than a tariff.

Gitchi Gummi wrote:

I thought inflation was bad? Now orange man says lets add tariffs, that will obviously increase inflation, and now its good?

See my comment above regarding our trade deficit. If we do nothing, what do you think inflation is going to do? What would your solution to inflation be?

A couple of the largest refineries in the US located in Texas run on heavy Canada crude because it is dirt cheap vs. the higher quality grades found across much of the US. They actually move solvent to Canada and mix with crude oil so that it can flow decent.

In the 80’s when “Made in the USA” was kicked off as marketing for an increase in purchasing home built goods, it was an attempt to save the textile and rust belt industries. All the textiles are made in China and they don’t call it the rust belt for nothing. Regardless of why we may be doing tariffs, for an increase in home production or to equalize trade the question is, is it too late, can we produce anything at home anymore, and does it have a quality that encourages the sale of our products globally?

A good share of Ram and GM/Chevy pickup trucks are assembled in Canada and Mexico. Mostly Mexico.

Only the Ford F-150 is 100% assembled in the USA. All other brands “domestic” and foreign owned are not. That said, Ford gets 45% of their parts outside of the US and Canada. Data available typically combines US and Canada parts together …

So even US assembled vehicles will have cost impacts on parts.

When it comes to boarder protection, the US still owns it whether it is people or goods entering the country through boards, airports, or ports.

Trump is great at smoke & mirrors. Fentanyl issue is certainly real but lumping Canada into this with China and Mexico is crazy.

Currency values (which does impact inflation) are often manipulated by countries to make their goods cheaper in the USA (largest economy). China is very good at keeping the value of their currency lower than it should be which further magnifies the cost differential of their products (keeps them artificially low). Many industries are also partially or fully government owned and the goal is primarily employment. China routinely “dumps” goods into the western countries at costs that often only cover their raw material inputs. These issues can be handled on a case by case basis.

Counties that manipulate currency values should be subject to high tariffs.

I have been to China and I have been in some of their manufacturing plants. Yes – they do have low labor costs which helps in assembly line made products … but countries like Vietnam are now the lower cost assembly countries. Many newer China production plants (set up in the past 25 years or so) are fully modern with robotics and state of the art automation.

Markets are in turmoil after Trump announced a 30% tariff on $300 billion worth of Chinese imports, reigniting fears of a prolonged trade war.

The U.S. dollar skyrocketed to its highest level since 2005, while global stock markets plummeted in response to the escalating economic uncertainty.

Key Market Moves (9:30 AM EST)
• Dollar Index (DXY): +2.3% (Highest since 2005)
• S&P 500 Futures: -3.1%
• Nasdaq 100 Futures: -3.8% (Tech stocks hit hardest)
• Shanghai Composite: -4.1%
• Brent Crude Oil: -5% to $72/barrel Why Markets Are Panicking
• Currency Volatility: Yuan slumps 1.8%, Euro falls to $0.95 (20-year low)
• Supply Chain Risks: Tech giants like Apple, Tesla, and Nvidia brace for disruptions
• Inflation Concerns: Analysts warn tariffs could add 0.8% to U.S. inflation

Both Canada and China has vowed swift retaliation. This is fine. Everythings fine.

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First I’d like to commend almost everyone for the respectful discourse thru 3 pages! I really appreciate hearing everyone’s respectful opinions.

My opinion is generally opposed to Tariff’s as they are just another tax on consumers. However, Trump uses tariff’s as a leverage tool in negotiations, more than a field leveler in market the long term. Which has not been done this aggressively at this scale before, so it’s really tbd on the impact. And personally if given the choice between Tariff’s and Federal Income Tax (something Trump has intimated he’d be interested in eliminating), I’d much rather eliminate the Fed Income Tax and fund the govt solely thru tariff’s as tariff’s are a usury tax. Meaning you can avoid them if you don’t buy stuff, and I’d much rather have the choice than mandatory confiscation.

I did not read through all 3 pages but… mostly the tariffs Trump is putting on Canada and Mexico, is because of HUGE trade deficits… contrary to the last trade agreement. In other words, they ignore the trade agreement and ship us WAY MORE than they buy from us. That is hurting our economy helping theirs.

As far as CHINA and others, they are stealing our technology, knocking off our products and producing them with forced child labor. I don’t know anyone who supports child labor. As some stated, leveling the playing field, so the money they save by forcing child labor, is attached as tariffs, therefore making USA products more in line.

Gitchi Gummi wrote:

Markets are in turmoil after Trump announced a 30% tariff on $300 billion worth of Chinese imports, reigniting fears of a prolonged trade war.

The U.S. dollar skyrocketed to its highest level since 2005, while global stock markets plummeted in response to the escalating economic uncertainty.

Key Market Moves (9:30 AM EST)
• Dollar Index (DXY): +2.3% (Highest since 2005)
• S&P 500 Futures: -3.1%
• Nasdaq 100 Futures: -3.8% (Tech stocks hit hardest)
• Shanghai Composite: -4.1%
• Brent Crude Oil: -5% to $72/barrel Why Markets Are Panicking
• Currency Volatility: Yuan slumps 1.8%, Euro falls to $0.95 (20-year low)
• Supply Chain Risks: Tech giants like Apple, Tesla, and Nvidia brace for disruptions
• Inflation Concerns: Analysts warn tariffs could add 0.8% to U.S. inflation

Both Canada and China has vowed swift retaliation. This is fine. Everythings fine.

Maybe you should up the dosage of your TDR medication?

Joe Jarl wrote:

On the trade argument, we have been averaging around a $78B per month trade deficit. This is dollars leaving the country each month. This leads to a devalued dollar. I.E. inflation. I would say that’s not sustainable. Will tariffs help correct that? Like I said, time will tell.

Joel and BIG G nailed the biggest problem on the head. The trade deficit is way out of control. There was a time most of the things a person used on a daily basis was produced here in the US. Not anymore. The US was built into a world power on the Model of a industrial nation. They have since moved away from that model and now want to be know as the worlds money keeper. It interesting that China took up the model of a industrial nation that the US moved away from and now are moving towards a world power country. Will Tariffs work? Time will tell but I think it is a good start. It will not be a fast fix so it will take time to see the overall effects. I actually believe we need more of them. What the US does have of value is Food. Lets use that to our advantage. Many parts of the world need our food far more than we need their products. There is no reason why we should be selling corn and grain for what we are while paying what we are for crude oil. The trade deficit to a long time to get to where it is and will take just as long to get back into line. But you have to start somewhere. How do you eat a whole elephant, One bite at a time !!!

I agree with a lot of what you said Werm. Taxes are an interesting topic because none of us want to pay them but they’re needed if we want to use a lot of things. I laugh when I see the “taxation is theft” images online. Taxes are as old as time, and if you don’t want to pay taxes then don’t plan on using roads, emergency services, etc. I agree that, when possible, usage taxes are preferrable because there’s more direct involvement and contribution to subsidizing. For some people it’s frustrating to pay property taxes that contribute to the local school that they have no connection to, or pay additional taxes in a metro area that subsidize a new stadium they have no interest in. Tariffs could go down that road but I don’t see any way they’d eliminate federal income tax; that just seems like an empty campaign promise telling people what they want to hear.

Rand Paul even said recently (I’m paraphrasing/summarizing) that historically Republicans have been against new forms of taxation and that this tariff push is just a new form of taxation.

With the amount of taxes collected, the roads should be paved with solid gold. Just sayin’. The amount of taxes paid in this country is ridiculous. Time to dump the tea in the harbor again.

Its pretty interesting and this is an ever evolving discussion. I just read that the tariffs on Mexico are paused for a month after the Mexican leader has agreed to send troops to the border to crack down on drug trafficking.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Its pretty interesting and this is an ever evolving discussion. I just read that the tariffs on Mexico are paused for a month after the Mexican leader has agreed to send troops to the border to crack down on drug trafficking.

So it’s working?

10,000 Mexican troops promised