Talon anchor and 9.9 kicker too much weight?

Hello. I was writing up a boat purchase with a Crestliner dealer at the Milwaukee Boat Show. It’s a 2019 175 Pro Tiller with a 90 Mercury. I added a 9.9 kicker and a 10 ft Talon anchor in the write up, but one of their techs told me that having the Talon and the kicker on it would be too much weight. He said it’s a 30 mph boat, but would be a 20 mph boat with all the extra weight and would make the boat sit too low in the stearn on the water. The other issue is that it has a boarding ladder which would have to be removed to make room for the Talon. Not thrilled with having a bunch of holes in the transom. Has anyone dealt with anything similar to this, or is anyone running a similar setup? Thanks in advance.

What motor is the boat rated for? If the cumulative weight of both motors and the talon add up to be more than the weight of the largest rated motor for the boat, it is too much weight.

I live in Northwest Indiana. Fish some small lakes with 10 mph limits. Kicker will help with that, and I like the idea of having it for emergencies. Hit Lake Michigan and Winnie a couple times a year. Bass, muskie, walley, pan fish. Looking for a rig that can do it all. I put in and take out by myself a lot in small lakes with bad ramps. Would be great to beach the boat and drop the Talon instead of toying a rope to a tree when I park the truck.

That is a ton of weight to be hanging off the transom of a relatively small boat. I’d listen to the tech….

30 MPH seemed a bit low for that boat with a 90 and 20 MPH seemed like a big haircut from just adding a kicker/talon, so like SuperDave is thinking, I went looking for the weight and the max.

90 HP is the max, so in true IDO style, you’re maxin’ it. Boat weight is 1200 dry/no motor, max capacity is 1600 including motor.

I found an actual Mercury Marine test report of the 90 on a PT 175 in the spec section on the Crestliner website.

https://www.crestliner.com/download_engine_performance/6202

It says they got 37.8 MPH with the ProTiller 175 and the 90 with 2 guys in the test boat.

However. I didn’t look up the motor’s weight, but with motor and full fuel, plus 2 guys and gear, you are really eating into that 1600 pounds of weight capacity. That load alone has to equal half or more of the capacity? Then adding a tiller and talon…

With a 17-foot tiller rig, all the weight is on the transom with how you’re rigging this and the fact that it’s a tiller, so the operator’s weight is in the back as well. I also see there’s a rear livewell, so even more weight if you use that.

If I were buying, I’d want to water test with a weight equal to the weight of the kicker and see what that did to how it sits in the water before I even bought it. Just my opinion, but for the money being spent, I wouldn’t want to get this wrong.

Grouse

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

30 MPH seemed a bit low for that boat with a 90 and 20 MPH seemed like a big haircut from just adding a kicker/talon, so like SuperDave is thinking, I went looking for the weight and the max.

90 HP is the max, so in true IDO style, you’re maxin’ it. Boat weight is 1200 dry/no motor, max capacity is 1600 including motor.

I found an actual Mercury Marine test report of the 90 on a PT 175 in the spec section on the Crestliner website.

https://www.crestliner.com/download_engine_performance/6202

It says they got 37.8 MPH with the ProTiller 175 and the 90 with 2 guys in the test boat.

However. I didn’t look up the motor’s weight, but with motor and full fuel, plus 2 guys and gear, you are really eating into that 1600 pounds of weight capacity. That load alone has to equal half or more of the capacity? Then adding a tiller and talon…

With a 17-foot tiller rig, all the weight is on the transom with how you’re rigging this and the fact that it’s a tiller, so the operator’s weight is in the back as well. I also see there’s a rear livewell, so even more weight if you use that.

If I were buying, I’d want to water test with a weight equal to the weight of the kicker and see what that did to how it sits in the water before I even bought it. Just my opinion, but for the money being spent, I wouldn’t want to get this wrong.

Grouse

^^^
exactly this.
if a tech said its too heavy while you were discussing it I would trust the tech.

Thank you for the research. Yes, the 90 is the max. I asked him if getting the 185 would help and he said that it would be worse, because the max on 185 is also 90.

Trust the people that sell the boats and thank them for their honesty. I’d definitely look to ditch the kicker if you’re set on that model. With a 115hp Optimax I can troll at ~2.0mph. With a 4 stroke 90hp I’d think you can dial it way down comparatively. Today’s trolling motors are pretty exact and efficient as well and could get you quite a distance as a “backup” to motor failure.

JMat wrote:

I live in Northwest Indiana. Fish some small lakes with 10 mph limits. Kicker will help with that, and I like the idea of having it for emergencies. Hit Lake Michigan and Winnie a couple times a year. Bass, muskie, walley, pan fish. Looking for a rig that can do it all. I put in and take out by myself a lot in small lakes with bad ramps. Would be great to beach the boat and drop the Talon instead of toying a rope to a tree when I park the truck.

For these uses I have to ask, why a kicker at all? Seems like on that size of boat you could backtroll or use a bow mount electric and keep a lot of weight off the transom.

Right size the electric and it’s still enough for emergency use. In a 17 I wouldn’t be pushing the weather real hard on Michigan.

Grouse

Great info. Thank you.

I’ll rethink the kicker. Save a little money and use it for other upgrades on the new boat.

Talons sometimes cannot be mounted directly to the transom. That is often an issue on aluminum boats. I have mine mounted on a sandwich bracket because the hull warranty would be voided if it was mounted directly to the transom.

I’ll ask about that. I saw some different mount brackets on the internet after doing some research.

It shouldn’t be this complicated to buy a damned boat!

Thank you.

Get a hydraulic jack plate and mount the talon on that. You’ll like the jack plate for performance adjustments as well as being able to go shallow.

If it was me, I would dump the talon and go with the kicker.

JMat wrote:

It shouldn’t be this complicated to buy a damned boat!

It’s not really, but when you start adding on alot of complicated stuff, it gets, complicated, just in a good way!!

That’s a sweet rig, be great to see a review from ya after a season on how you like it and its performance.

munchy wrote:

Get a hydraulic jack plate and mount the talon on that. You’ll like the jack plate for performance adjustments as well as being able to go shallow.

Would work, but I can’t say that I’ve ever seen anyone mount a jack plate on a boat like that. I’ve only ever seen one on a bass boat or a bay boat. Not that it wouldn’t work, but I’m guessing he isn’t purchasing a pro tiller model to get into shallow skinny water.

Johnie Birkel wrote:

If it was me, I would dump the talon and go with the kicker.

Yep ^^^^^

The new spot lock is incredible. Ditch the Talon.

I have a 1996 Sylvan Pro Select. It is rated for up to 105hp motor. I have an Evinrude 60 hp and 9.9 4-stroke kicker on it. It goes up to about 30mph. The boat has no problems with this. The rear end does not sag.

I would ditch the talon and get the kicker.

B-man wrote:

Johnie Birkel wrote:
If it was me, I would dump the talon and go with the kicker.

Yep ^^^^^

The new spot lock is incredible. Ditch the Talon.

I’m missing something. You have spot lock on your kicker?

Or are you saying go bow-mount with a kicker?

I’d still want to see how that 17 foot rig sat in the water with max HP, full tank of gas, and 2 guys in the boat. Then I’d use salt or sandbags to simulate the weight of the kicker and see what that did to how the boat sits in the water and the handling at various speeds.

Grouse

No spot lock on my kicker, just assuming he will have bow mount on the front.

The second generation I-pilot is incredible for holding you in position.

Dues the spot lock feature keep your boat parallel to the shore, or just keep the bow in one spot?

I was thinking the talon anchor with the spot lock will hold the boat in that position considering wind, waves, and currents.

JMat wrote:

Dues the spot lock feature keep your boat parallel to the shore, or just keep the bow in one spot?

Essentially, spot lock keeps the bow in one spot. The wind/current will control where the boat points.

I would not use a Talon with spot lock that’s asking for disaster as every once in a while the spot lock may decide it has drifted 4 feet to the left and then it needs to reposition quickly… Potentially very bad for the talon.

Grouse

Didn’t think of that.

Does anyone have experiences using the Talon anchor and spot lock in the way I described?

JMat wrote:

Does anyone have experiences using the Talon anchor and spot lock in the way I described?

If holding the boat stationary AND maintaining your orientation is the goal, I’d think the solution is 2 Talons, one on each side of the stern. Even that would have limits as far as wind and current.

The GPS that drives the spot lock is not sub-inch capable and varies with atmospheric conditions like any GPS. Sometimes it’s really good, sometimes it’s +/- 2 to 4 feet, a few days it’s not even that good.

Grouse

I have a 12 foot talon and a bow mount Maxxum that does NOT have spot lock. Unfortunately the Ultrex with spot lock (designed for a bass boat) was not introduced until a year after I bought my boat. Grouse is right, one talon is not a true pinpoint anchor – two is required for that. One acts as more of a pivot point. And yes, I can still use my bow mount on a low or moderate thrust while the talon is down. The spike on the talon has a lifetime warranty so if it snaps off or bends in any way Minnkota will replace it. The reason I don’t have two of them is that the cost is too much and they are pretty heavy – 40+ pounds each.

That’s good info too. Thanks.

I understand there would be some swing involved with using one or the other alone. I would use common sense if the conditions were not favorable, and I used them at the same time.

The Talon is going to come in handy when I’m by myself at ramps with no docks. I think I’ll get my money’s worth out of both of them way more than the kicker.

JMat wrote:

The Talon is going to come in handy when I’m by myself at ramps with no docks.

I use mine a lot even when there is a dock!

Well, thank you all for the input. I will definitely post a review with pics of the new boat.

I have a talon and spot lock. And I’ve used them both at the same time. The trolling motor gets a little angry when the GPS thinks you moved lol. With that size of boat I’d have a bow mount with spot lock and the biggest talon you can afford. A gas kicker is not neccessary.