Surge Brake Question

I’ve never owned a boat trailer with surge brakes, but the new one has them. I really like it for slowing down….

Anyway, I noticed that the hubs were warm to the touch after running down the road on Saturday and Sunday. It was 90 degrees out on Saturday. I could keep my hand on the hub, but much warmer and I probably couldn’t. There are bearing buddies on the hubs. I decided to check it out tonight. I pulled a bearing buddy off and the grease looked fine. I jacked up the trailer and tried to spin the wheels. The wheels didn’t spin freely, but made a rotation or two and stopped. The brakes are causing that, but the rotors are not showing signs of wear.

I’m thinking the heat is probably being generated from the small amount of friction between the pads and rotors. Is this normal? Anything I should be worried about?

rotor and caliper style brakes will always be warm to the touch,as you mentioned the drag from the pads is causing this,now,if you have a panic stop,or a long down hill grade,yes,they will be hot,so much so that it will burn you.
that said,if you can feel the trailer lugging your tow vehicle down on a level road,or taking off from a stop,then you have a caliper hanging up,whether it is in the slide pins,or the piston stuck,or possible blocked hose,which does happen more than most think,then you need to check things out.
check them out the next time you go twenty miles or more,they will be warm to very warm,and if you are not boiling the grease in the hubs,you are good to go.
keep the master cylinder full as brake fluid is hydroscopic,meaning it has an affinity for water,its a good idea to change it every couple of years because of this.

iowaboy1, thank you for the reply. It sounds like what I am experiencing is very normal. I appreciate the response.

I’ve always been a nut about checking the hubs when I stop. Don’t want to end up burning one up on the highway and having to try and figure out how to get it fixed.

Sparetime wrote:

I’ve always been a nut about checking the hubs when I stop. Don’t want to end up burning one up on the highway and having to try and figure out how to get it fixed.

I hear you on that one!! my wife and I go to Bemidji every year,about a thousand mile round trip,and I hate having troubles on the road.
every two years,I replace the bearings and seals,whats fifty bucks compared to a break down on the road,every three years,I replace the trailer tires,another sixty bucks,but sure beats chancing getting hit on the road,or twenty miles from a tire shop at five in the morning!!!

Skuff, I think they need to be rebuilt! Go through the process and figure out all the “ins and outs” then when you come up to my house next you can “help” me rebuild mine!😗😄

Some trailers have a brake release button/latchie thingie under the tongue that you need to depress anytime you suspect the brakes are not fully releasing. See if your trailer has that feature and if it impacts the wheels being able to spin freely.

If you bought a used boat/trailer I would re pack the bearings so you know they are done right. You stated “the new one” but that can mean different things to different individuals…
From what I have seen from bearing buddies is that they are a joke, they can not get grease to the inner bearing and I would debate if it could even help the outer bearing.

mark-bruzek wrote:

If you bought a used boat/trailer I would re pack the bearings so you know they are done right. You stated “the new one” but that can mean different things to different individuals…
From what I have seen from bearing buddies is that they are a joke, they can not get grease to the inner bearing and I would debate if it could even help the outer bearing.

good point on the new/used boat trailer thing.
as far as bearing buddies,it depends on what seal you have on the back side of the hub,if they are a traditional grease seal,the buddies work fine as the seal weeps enough to allow grease to the back bearing,the biggest problem with bearing buddies is over greasing which can lead to pushing the seal out of its bore.
if you have the oil seal type seal in the hub,(they are spring loaded) bearing buddies will take a while to push the grease to the back,and this is where over greasing really creates a problem, a pushed out seal,or even pushing grease back out of the bearing buddy and slinging grease every where.
what most people dont realize is that grease becomes fluid when when it becomes warm and flows like heavy oil,now,thats if you are using grease designed for wheel bearings,too heavy a grease,and the bearing will eventually run dry as the grease cant flow like its supposed to and it will be flung out of the bearing at speed.
too light of grease,and the seal cant hold it,and it also cant carry the load,so now the bearing gets hot,boils the rest of the grease out and fried bearing.

twice a year,I jack up my trailer and spin the hub listening for any roughness and looseness,and replace/repack as required.

my trailer has the easy lube axles on it which I think is a good idea,but the issue of over greasing is still and issue for those that are heavy handed with a grease gun,but at least the grease is pushed out towards you,and you can see if the grease has water in it,or the death nell of metallic looking grease.

I would check the bearings since you have bearing buddies and not oil hubs, to release the calipers for disc brakes you need a slight amount of play in the bearings to push the calipers back.

Bearing buddies are NOT DESIGHNED to grease the bearings they are designed to create positive pressure inside the hub to keep water out that is it.

If it were up to me, I would just repack the bearings every year and not have bearing buddies. I’ve heard too much pressure on the grease can cause the tires to wear funny, but I have no proof of that.

you guys do know, you install bearing buddies on fully packed hubs, right ? and they are designed to keep constant pressure on your hubs, with fresh grease in the ready position… so any grease lost is not replaced by water, but rather grease. How do you get grease to the inner bearing with just a dust cover ?:???:

Big G’s got a handle on this!
I also had a thought a couple of days ago at first read.

Have you relieved the pressure on the surge brake actuator, then check the drag on the brake drums? This seems to be an “Mr. Obvious” question.

Sparetime wrote:

I’ve never owned a boat trailer with surge brakes, but the new one has them. I really like it for slowing down….

Anyway, I noticed that the hubs were warm to the touch after running down the road on Saturday and Sunday. It was 90 degrees out on Saturday. I could keep my hand on the hub, but much warmer and I probably couldn’t. There are bearing buddies on the hubs. I decided to check it out tonight. I pulled a bearing buddy off and the grease looked fine. I jacked up the trailer and tried to spin the wheels. The wheels didn’t spin freely, but made a rotation or two and stopped. The brakes are causing that, but the rotors are not showing signs of wear.

I’m thinking the heat is probably being generated from the small amount of friction between the pads and rotors. Is this normal? Anything I should be worried about?

With my above thoughts, I believe that a certain amount of natural heat would be generated at higher air temps (upper 80 through the 90’s) transferring the road temps to the tires/wheels. It could be warm enough to feel on the hand, but still not enough heat to make the palm resist the temps of the rims while being touched for a minute or more. Am I off track?.

Denny O wrote:

With my above thoughts, I believe that a certain amount of natural heat would be generated at higher air temps (upper 80 through the 90’s) transferring the road temps to the tires/wheels. It could be warm enough to feel on the hand, but still not enough heat to make the palm resist the temps of the rims while being touched for a minute or more. Am I off track?.

Denny,you are only slightly “off track” any type of rotor/caliper combination,( disc brakes ) has an inherit drag to it and heres why,the only way a caliper in good working order has a way to retract when the brake is released is by the square sealing ring that seals the brake fluid between the caliper piston and its bore,when the brake is applied,the piston is forced out clamping the pads against the rotor,when pressure is released,the ring ever so slightly pulls the piston back,maybe only a couple of thousands of an inch,just enough to let the rotor spin,and this slight amount of drag between the pads and rotor generates heat and is normal.
if you were to pry the caliper back to create less drag,the brakes on first application wont be as good because the piston and pads are not where they are supposed to be,and the drag would return when the caliper gets back to where it belongs,the rest as you mentioned,is due to road heat,and ambient air temps,along with normal frictions as designed.
now,when there is a problem,rust,collapsed hose,seized piston,stuck pins,etc,the caliper cant release,brakes stay applied,massive heat build up,and warped rotors follows.its a good idea on these types of brakes on trailers that get submerged to pull the caliper slide pins out and lube them with marine grease once a year, an easy job,and only takes about ten minutes a side,and grease is cheap. if you have the old style drums and shoes,different animal all together.

JD Winston wrote:

Some trailers have a brake release button/latchie thingie under the tongue that you need to depress anytime you suspect the brakes are not fully releasing. See if your trailer has that feature and if it impacts the wheels being able to spin freely.

Just to be clear, I believe you are referring to the “brake lockout” lever.

This is a small sliding lever on the side of the hitch that disengages the brakes.

The most common use for this is should you have to back UP a significant hill. A steep driveway for example. The weight of the boat pushing back downhill would engage the brakes to the point of locking them. So disengaging the brakes via this lever allows you to push a trailer with surge brakes uphill.

Just wanted to bring this up in case the OP didn’t know what that was for.

Grouse

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>JD Winston wrote:</div>
Some trailers have a brake release button/latchie thingie under the tongue that you need to depress anytime you suspect the brakes are not fully releasing. See if your trailer has that feature and if it impacts the wheels being able to spin freely.

Just to be clear, I believe you are referring to the “brake lockout” lever.

This is a small sliding lever on the side of the hitch that disengages the brakes.

The most common use for this is should you have to back UP a significant hill. A steep driveway for example. The weight of the boat pushing back downhill would engage the brakes to the point of locking them. So disengaging the brakes via this lever allows you to push a trailer with surge brakes uphill.

Just wanted to bring this up in case the OP didn’t know what that was for.

Grouse

And when in reverse the back-up light is lit, that should send a signal to the brake controller to lock out the surge brake from being actuated.

There may be a metal piece that can be inserted also to manually keep it from engaging as well.

just a heads up, MOST vehicles with a 4-flat do not come with the brake bypass wire hooked up from the factory. just had to hook it up on my brothers JEEP as he couldn’t back his new Skeeter into the water…

I have the little metal thing that gets inserted to release the brakes when the trailer is not connected to the 6 pin connector. In my case anyway, the 6 pin signals the brakes not to actuate when in reverse. I did have the release in the hitch when checking the spin on the brakes. I’m sure the metal insert will be handy when trying to push the boat around in the garage without the truck hooked up.

After Iowaboy’s comments, I think what heat I’m experiencing is normal. The hubs are fully packed with grease, the bearing buddy’s are not overfull, and the brake pads are riding ever so slightly off the rotor. Time to go fishing and tubing.

Thanks everyone.