Subway shooting

Stanley wrote:

I see both sides of the argument but like I said in today’s climate I would choose to protect my family and their future first. If I go to jail for shooting someone to protect my family fine. This is a personal choice and if someone did the same to protect their family and let mine die then so be it. We can all talk about what we would do but until your in that situation you never know. Maybe if I am I would change my mind but as of now this is where I stand like it or not.

I honestly dont think I could live with myself knowing I could have done something to save someone else. That would be a hard weight to bear. I dont have a CC, but if in that situation Id like to think that I would protect whoever I could regardless of whether or not they were family/friend. The fact is, you are also protecting yourself. You have no idea their intentions as you could be the next target.

Take your own advice RJ

You’re both making up stories as part of your defense…

You both apparently are into Western’s though. Maybe you watch too many movies?

CaptainMusky wrote:

Its not surprising that the areas with the most strict gun laws are also the ones with the most violent crime because they know that law abiding citizens are at a disadvantage.

Sad. But So True. Only need to look at Chicago, NY, and Big cities in Calf. to see how true that is.

big_g wrote:

Not worth my time.

No its not. Don’t even bother !!!!

Just giving you tough guys a bit of grief.

I’ll bow out. Unless someone wants they’re BS pointed out.

Mookie Blaylock wrote:

I’ll bow out. Unless someone wants they’re BS pointed out.

I think we’ve seen who’s BS needed to be pointed out…

I think some are missing my point. If I’m in a situation that I need to discharge my firearm it will be to protect myself and family and that may mean protecting others as well. I will NOT run towards gun fire to protect others if I can evacuate safely as taught in my cc class. The St. Cloud mall was brought up and I shop there often as well. If I was there when the stabbing happened I would have looked for the nearest exit not go on the hunt looking to shoot the guy.

My cc class even taught if someone breaks into your house you have a duty to retreat if you can before confronting the criminal.

I agree with you Stanley.

A weapon is the last resort in ANY situation and using one to protect someone I don’t know has a new set of risks.

A number of years ago there was a fella that commented on being in a Rochester clinic or hospital waiting room. A girl came in the was a mess. Said she was beat up in the parking lot.

The poster said “if I only had a gun at the time”. I, fresh out of my first carry class said no, you don’t know what was going on out there. Too many what if’s to take out a person.

Good people on this forum started asking if I was nuts. I stood my ground and gave the example of walking past an alley and seeing a guy with a gun to the head of a girl. Take the guy out and then you find out he was an undercover LEO. Do not pass go…

After a few days, I ended up calling the Rochester Police Department to find out what really happened.

Turns out she made the story up about being beat up. She got that way by trying to commit suicide.

We all have our own values, beliefs and morals.

Personally, and this includes my family…(trying) to a take another’s life comes right after I realize there is no other way out. I just hope the other guy is more nervous then I am and his bullets hit the dirt.

To answer the original question, no, hardly anyone has CC in New York City. Even if you have gone through the lengthy and expensive process to get a New York pistol license (NYPL) it is not valid in the counties that make up New York City unless it has also been specifically validated in those counties. The only people legally carrying in NYC are cops and people who are extremely well politically connected and are granted the “may issue” permit.

NY state also doesn’t recognize any other permits, and you can’t get a NYPL without being a resident. It is also illegal to possess or handle a handgun without a valid NYPL. So if say I had ever shot or held my dad’s handguns, that was illegal.

At least they finally arrested that DBag.

big_g wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>suzuki wrote:</div>
My CC classes didn’t cover fighting in smoke screens.

Hmmmmm…. they didn’t go over having a clear view of the intended target and what’s beyond it ? You got robbed.

That part I learned from my father long ago.

Brian Klawitter wrote:

Personally, and this includes my family…(trying) to a take another’s life comes right after I realize there is no other way out. I just hope the other guy is more nervous then I am and his bullets hit the dirt

Well said BK.

Mookie Blaylock wrote:

Just giving you tough guys a bit of grief.

I’ll bow out. Unless someone wants they’re BS pointed out.

Their*

Mookie Blaylock wrote:

Take your own advice RJ

You’re both making up stories as part of your defense…

You both apparently are into Western’s though. Maybe you watch too many movies?

Humor me and give me a scenario where me saying I’d protect a vulnerable person equates to me willingly entering a gunfight???

I appreciate you echoing me, “no I think you watch too many movies”…

What state are you in? In MN we have castle doctrine so there is no duty to retreat within your own home.

Go home RJ. You’re drunk.

The only thing I said was your families would probably care if you died.

That’s it.

The rest of the words came from you and the peanut gallery.

BTW, when people are shooting opposite directions of each other it would be considered a gunfight, correct? I’m not insinuating that you would fly to Ukraine.
Like you insinuated that you could have stopped the St Cloud mall incident had you been on your clerk shift.

FinickyFish wrote:

What state are you in? In MN we have castle doctrine so there is no duty to retreat within your own home.

I am in MN. The class I took was ran by a LEO and while you are correct about the castle doctrine he said that you should always be looking to avoid a confrontation. Even if you are justified in taking a life the time and money spent isn’t worth it IF you can avoid it. Now if someone were to break into my house (while I’m home) I will protect myself and family first and worry about the consequences later. If my neighbor gets broken into I’m calling the cops.

Brian Klawitter wrote:

I agree with you Stanley.

A weapon is the last resort in ANY situation and using one to protect someone I don’t know has a new set of risks.

We all have our own values, beliefs and morals.

Like I said in my reply to Stanley. I’m not saying either him or you are wrong. I’m just saying personally I can not seeing myself sit back and let someone else be injured or killed if I had the means necessary to stop it.
As you said ” We all have our own values, beliefs and morals ”

Mookie Blaylock wrote:

Go home RJ. You’re drunk.

The only thing I said was your families would probably care if you died.

That’s it.

The rest of the words came from you and the peanut gallery.

BTW, when people are shooting opposite directions of each other it would be considered a gunfight, correct? I’m not insinuating that you would fly to Ukraine.
Like you insinuated that you could have stopped the St Cloud mall incident had you been on your clerk shift.

First off, no that’s not a gunfight. A gunfight is 2 people shooting AT each other with the intent to kill one another. Or would you consider 2 people shooting at a range a gunfight???

Your comment was more along the lines of saying I’m looking for a gunfight to get involved in by my saying I would stand up for someone near me. The reason I mentioned the St. Cloud stabbing was to bring light to the fact that this kind of poop happens close to home. I never implied that I was going to go hunt down the guy stabbing people. Had I been walking through the mall, and someone ran over a stabbed a guy next to me, yeah I would have stopped him.

You said something stupid when you said “Willingly entering a gunfight” No one has at any point said they would willingly enter a gunfight. When you make a stupid comment like that there is going to be push back. That’s exactly what you’re experiencing right now.

Mookie Blaylock wrote:

Might want to go through this plan with your families.
I doubt willfully entering a gunfight is something they would be okay with.

rjthehunter wrote:

You said something stupid when you said “Willingly entering a gunfight” No one has at any point said they would willingly enter a gunfight. When you make a stupid comment like that there is going to be push back. That’s exactly what you’re experiencing right now.

Yeah, taking action by using your weapon to stop someone else from injuring you or others is definitely not willingly entering a gunfight. This isnt the NHL where players ask each other if they “want to go”? And you certainly dont walk up to someone and ask if they want to get into a gunfight.

If the term “Gunfight” is the only issue being taken, then I’ll concede.

It was exaggerated, and meant to give the John Wick’s here some grief.

Mookie Blaylock wrote:

If the term “Gunfight” is the only issue being taken, then I’ll concede.

It was exaggerated, and meant to give the John Wick’s here some grief.

I don’t see any John wicks here, just seems like every day people who care about them selves as well as the safety of there surroundings. That’s how American citizens should be.
Now days most would take out the phone and record rather then help any one in need

I feel the need to add some information around the laws in MN, specifically around your duty to retreat and castle doctrine so people understand. There are some nuisances, where if not followed, you could still wind up in jail for shooting someone in your home. This was taken from a lawyers page. If you feel this is incorrect please inform me and we can discuss as I feel it’s everyone’s responsibility to know the laws if you are going to use or potentially use deadly force

“Remember, Minnesota is not a “Stand Your Ground” state and you have a “duty to retreat” before using deadly force. This means if you feel threatened, you must evade the confrontation and only use deadly force as a last resort if there is no escape.

On the other hand, Minnesota applies the “castle doctrine” when it comes to self-defense in your own home. This means that there is no duty of retreat if you feel threatened with great bodily injury or death in your own home or you wish to prevent the commission of a felony in your home.

In addition, while some have limited to the castle doctrine when it applies to co-residents and individuals who are rightfully in the home, Minnesota homeowners do not need to exercise a duty to retreat with these parties. In other words, you can use deadly force against your roommate or an invited guest if he/she is an imminent threat to your life.

Keep in mind, the purpose of using a firearm or deadly force is to stop a threat, rather than intentionally kill an intruder. So, you must stop shooting once the threat is removed, even if the intruder remains alive”

crappie55369 wrote:

I feel the need to add some information around the laws in MN, specifically around your duty to retreat and castle doctrine so people understand. There are some nuisances, where if not followed, you could still wind up in jail for shooting someone in your home. This was taken from a lawyers page. If you feel this is incorrect please inform me and we can discuss as I feel it’s everyone’s responsibility to know the laws if you are going to use or potentially use deadly force

“Remember, Minnesota is not a “Stand Your Ground” state and you have a “duty to retreat” before using deadly force. This means if you feel threatened, you must evade the confrontation and only use deadly force as a last resort if there is no escape.

On the other hand, Minnesota applies the “castle doctrine” when it comes to self-defense in your own home. This means that there is no duty of retreat if you feel threatened with great bodily injury or death in your own home or you wish to prevent the commission of a felony in your home.

In addition, while some have limited to the castle doctrine when it applies to co-residents and individuals who are rightfully in the home, Minnesota homeowners do not need to exercise a duty to retreat with these parties. In other words, you can use deadly force against your roommate or an invited guest if he/she is an imminent threat to your life.

Keep in mind, the purpose of using a firearm or deadly force is to stop a threat, rather than intentionally kill an intruder. So, you must stop shooting once the threat is removed, even if the intruder remains alive”

No matter the situation, if you shoot, you shoot to kill not to injure. You never chase some one and keep shooting if they are retreating. But in the heat of the moment if you put 3 shots or 5 in to a deadly threat inside the home it is justified. If you shoot some one fleeing that is murder.
This is a situation I hope to never be part of.
3 nights ago a house a couple blocks away had a man trying to kick the door in with a hand gun in his hand. He was not able to get in and he fled away. This was caught on a ring doorbell. That is terrifying. I have no idea if it was random or a targeted house. But this is why I always stay armed at all times, in my house or not. And again I pray that I will never be in that situation. But I bet the neighbors did To. The law almost always sides with and protects a criminal. Doing your home work, being prepared, and watching your surroundings should be part of every day life.
Shooting a intruder in the back can only be justified if they were rushing to hurt some one inside the home. So if I felt they were trying to hurt my son who’s bedroom is down stairs I could pull the trigger from behind. But not if he is trying to run down and escape the back door. This story is only 1 direction if the threat is no longer, but if you shoot him 1 time in hopes he stops then that story may be 2 sided. Watch some self defense videos such as active self protection. Very good lesson in every video he posts.
And also watch how many rounds it can take to stop an actual threat. In most cases it is more then 1.

All good information above^. To add, knowing what to do after the fact is important as well. Police are not your friend, and do not serve you. Do not give the police any information other than your name. Save the rest for the expensive attorney.

ganderpike wrote:

All good information above^. To add, knowing what to do after the fact is important as well. Police are not your friend, and do not serve you. Do not give the police any information other than your name. Save the rest for the expensive attorney.

Correct. Police are not the people to spill the beans to. Leave the story for your attorney. Any thing you tell police will be used against you.

Always remember when seconds matter, help is minutes away

Pray to God I never have to draw my weapon and use it. Your play the sceniro out in your mind and of course you come out the hero. Not sure how calm or nervous I’d be.

buck-slayer wrote:

Pray to God I never have to draw my weapon and use it. Your play the sceniro out in your mind and of course you come out the hero. Not sure how calm or nervous I’d be.

I had a break in 12 years ago, before I had any clue what happened the masked guy was down the steps he came up. I was sleeping on the couch. I popped up and hit him before I had any realization of what happened and he fled. This scenario goes through my head all the time of what could have been or why he was even there in the first place. That was when I started looking into self defense. The police never did anything that night nor was anything ever solved in case. I ended up moving shortly after that

Bearcat89 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buck-slayer wrote:</div>
Pray to God I never have to draw my weapon and use it. Your play the sceniro out in your mind and of course you come out the hero. Not sure how calm or nervous I’d be.

I had a break in 12 years ago, before I had any clue what happened the masked guy was down the steps he came up. I was sleeping on the couch. I popped up and hit him before I had any realization of what happened and he fled. This scenario goes through my head all the time of what could have been or why he was even there in the first place. That was when I started looking into self defense. The police never did anything that night nor was anything ever solved in case. I ended up moving shortly after that

Had the same thing happen but fortunately we weren’t home. Came home to our house being ransacked. Police thought it was a random break in…someone saw us leave and were opportunistic looking for cash or prescription drugs.

Got a big ass dog and my CC after that. Never really used the CC so I let it lapse. Don’t keep the gun close anymore because we have a 6yo and I want the gun locked away.

I think often about home defense because of the break in…but with a little one at home I’ll keep the gun locked away. I rely on the big ass dog on the main floor (we’re all upstairs) to deter anyone.

Thank you Crappie, Bearcat and Gander. Good info and I was hoping someone would chime in as I was feeling maybe some on here carrying did not understand the rules of engagement. Not sure anyone can completely. Again like said by many lets just all hope none of us have to find out what we would actually do.

Matt Moen wrote:

Don’t keep the gun close anymore because we have a 6yo and I want the gun locked away.

I think often about home defense because of the break in…but with a little one at home I’ll keep the gun locked away.

This is me too. I don’t have a CC permit, but I kept my handgun in a location in my bedroom prior to the kid. Can’t have it there anymore until he’s old enough for me to trust him with it around, so into the safe it went. I feel as though there is a higher risk of my kid finding it and encountering an issue with it than there is of a break in where I would need it.

My dog is probably not as big or as mean as yours. But she will definitely bark should an intruder show up.