stunted lakes/reservoirs question

So in SE MN where there is more fishing pressure than places to fish, would making these small lakes/reservoirs catch and release for a year or two increase the size of the fish? i am no biologist so no idea if this would work on panfish lakes that do not get stocked by the DNR but it is getting really bad down here. i know there are a few DNR that frequent these forums so looking for their input on this. i know that previous attempts on these body of waters was to add pike and bass to try and clean up the runts but is that really the best option? i would think maybe rotating some of these puddles as C&R would help? i would be in favor of doing C&R for all of them for a few years to see if it would help and then tighten the limits again some more?

I would think C&R would be great around rochester for size wise. Most of them already have bass and pike so I’m not sure if that’s really the answer

I’m guessing it would probably take longer than a year or two. Also, if the genetics for growing larger fish are all gone, it really wouldn’t do much. You need to have sizable fish genetics to make and grow more sizable fish.

You could probably look at how many lakes have an abundance of small pike and use that as an example. Too many large pike have been removed for too long and now we have a daily bag limit of 10 in a large part of the state.

Just my 2 cents

I would think if anything you’d want it treated like the north central (or whatever it’s called) northern pike zone, where you’re allowed to catch some numbers but not as much for size.

If I remember right the pike zone I’m thinking of got its regulations because they have quite a good population but there’s so many of them that none are growing very big. So you can keep up to 10 pike but they can’t be in the 22-26 inch range and only 2 can be over 26.

So in the waters you’re referring to, if there are a lot of fish but it’s rare to see decent enough size, maybe you protect the big ones to keep their genetics around and allow people to thin out the overall population.

I know I’m comparing two different species with very different diets. I’m no biologist either but I do subscribe to Outdoor news and watch John Gillespie from time to time.

That’s exactly what I was getting at Dan. Use the northern pike model.

Although have we turned this thing around yet with those small pike? I’m not so sure it’s made a significant improvement yet. Will take years to see a difference, and probably the same for panfish.

Dan wrote:

I I’m no biologist either but I do subscribe to Outdoor news and watch John Gillespie from time to time.

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

While I was typing up my reply gimruis typed up what I was basically trying to say but he said it better

And yes, SE MN is getting to be quite the situation. I was at Silver Creek last Saturday and a county deputy was writing quite a few parking tickets. Had I been there 10 minutes earlier I would’ve been one of them but I saw him writing them for vehicles parked on the side of the road right where I would’ve.

Lots and lots of sportsmen and women, huge population center like Rochester and its suburbs, and very, very few places to fish.

i haven’t fished the easy access reservoirs in years because of the traffic. used to catch crappies as big as your boot in SC before they put a lot in there. parking on the gravel road and walk into the lake using the creek those were the good old days. once the lot went in, the fish left in buckets. even the tightened regs couldn’t keep up with demand. i would recommend a C&R for all SE water for 3 years then open it up for a year and repeat. how do i go about getting this started? somebody got to do something soon……..

eyeguy507 wrote:

i haven’t fished the easy access reservoirs in years because of the traffic. used to catch crappies as big as your boot in SC before they put a lot in there. parking on the gravel road and walk into the lake using the creek those were the good old days. once the lot went in, the fish left in buckets. even the tightened regs couldn’t keep up with demand. i would recommend a C&R for all SE water for 3 years then open it up for a year and repeat. how do i go about getting this started? somebody got to do something soon……..

Remember fishing it many times while parking on the gravel and walking down the creek. Was great fishing then

Most of these reservoirs are going to find fish size limitations do to the amount of food and the carrying capacity of the water itself. With crappie, bass, sunfish and perch being the most common fish in most of these bodies of water, the amount of reproductive energy is incredible. Basically the fish are not getting enough to eat.

People need to start taking LOTS of the smaller fish [3″to 6″] home either to eat or for the garden. There needs to be some help from prime predatory fish like pike and larger bass. Dogfish would really help the game fish out in these places as they dine heavily on all of these game species, especially the smaller ones.

All of these fish are prone to super high successful spawn rates which overloads the water with micro-plankton eating young. Other insect life needs the micro-plankton to thrive and grow so the competition from young of the year fish takes away from the natural insect’s dinner table , in turn reducing the amount of food available to the bugs. The bugs themselves are dinner for the slightly larger minnows and game fry. Those 3-6 inch fish that need to be removed are eating most of the food that is where larger fish need to start feeding heavier and there just isn’t the food for them to grow well.

Someone mentioned Silver Creek. At one time Silver Creek held huge pike. Not in numbers, but some of the pike were huge. At that time the lake was well balanced and crappies and sunfish grew big like the pike. It took one winter to decimate the pike and large crappie/sunfish in that reservoir. One winter. Now what is found there are small fish and lots of them. It isn’t the shortage of food or the high numbers of small fish that screwed that lake. It was anglers. Greedy, limit [or more] taking anglers. One winter. Back then there was no open water access so open water angling did not exist. And in fact the entire reservoir was well posted, No Trespassing. Didn’t matter. The prick fishermen trespassed and drew other anglers and in one winter they destroyed a fishery.

Foster Arends Lake was a private lake that also held big pike and some sumo bass along with decent crappies and some nice sunfish. And trout. When that finally opened to public fishing the big hurrah lasted about one summer. The pike and walleye that were in there have been gone for years, the big bass that remain are so “on to people” that they’re too smart to hit anything. Crappies are generally borderline dinks and sunfish are right on their heels.

The lake at the Scout camp, same scenario.

C/R rules would be poison to these reservoirs because people would be returning the problem right back into the system. The only C/R that would benefit these lakes would be large fish required C/R. The lakes need a decent predator [pike] base that is “size” protected, nothing over 26″ should be able to be kept and if a lesser fish is caught it should have to be kept. No exceptions. Every six years they could have a weekend long or one day controlled pike season designed to remove X number of larger pike so their numbers cannot grow to a point that the system is out of balance.

All of these waters fall under the dnr’s umbrella of a 10 fish limit for panfish: crappies perch and sunfish. Any combination of fish up to ten. At least one water has a maximum size for keeping sunfish. Crappies would benefit by the same type of size limit. Big crappies are major consumers of small sunfish, so they should be encouraged to succeed in waters plagued by tons of dink sunfish. Enforcement becomes an issue when it comes to limits and size limits; there is none for the most part.

The biggest problem we have today is a people problem when all of the big fish are removed from a body of water. Sunfish are prolific but have a super slow growth rate. Even with great food available to get a ten inch sunfish it takes several years. Around Rochester when that sunfish sees 8″ it’s dinner. Too many people, too little ethic and when the fish need help nobody shows up to help them.

Eyeguy…. run down to the DNR’s offices in Lake City and speak with one of the specialists down there. They’ll be happy to listen to you. If you want some company, pm me and I’ll run down with you. Been there many times. This might be something where several persons can go together and approach the specialists.

SE Minnesota, huh? Reminds me of a Bob Dylan lyric. “Honey how come you don’t MOVE?” Just kidding, I understand roots.

Rochester people, you are only an hour to an hour and a half from some pretty decent fishing around Mankato, Faribault, and even the Mississippi River. You just need to step out of your box.

Jimmy has a lot of good points. I’ve worked with fish biologists for 20 years managing a small private fishing club. It’s all about balance. Harvest is an important tool in management. It’s just the average angler wants to harvest the biggest and often the most fish allowed by the regs. How often do you see a lake in South Dakota hit a sweet spot with huge perch population, in 2 years it’s bust. Before it was discovered S.D. lakes were full of 20# northerns and jumbo perch. Good smb crappie and gills to boot. Then Tony Dean outdoors and fishing magazines started showing 100# stinger shots of northerns. No limits on perch. Guys came off the ice with 6′ sleds with perch falling off.
2 of the recommendations we get the most in a stunted lake is don’t release crappie or bass between 11” and 18”. One you are seeing more of that’s very unpopular but very effective. Is slots and smaller limits on big panfish. The need of big predators is, they can eat fish 3” and larger fish. Controlling then and taking the pressure off of smaller food sources. Problem with stunted 3” to 5” fish. They can eat the fry from the spawn. But by midsummer the young of the year are too big for them to eat. So they struggle to get nutrition to grow the rest of the year. One thing that’s not going to help is advance technology not only makes it easier to find fish. But to target the bigger fish. Getting a balance isn’t a pill you throw in the lake. It takes constant surveying and adjustment every one to three years. Tough with budget cuts and thousands of lakes.

nord wrote:

Rochester people, you are only an hour to an hour and a half from some pretty decent fishing around Mankato, Faribault, and even the Mississippi River. You just need to step out of your box.

It didn’t take me long to figure this out after moving here . The rivers worth every dollar I’ve spent investing to drive and learn and fish it .

Every Rochester lake I’ve fished is great for kids for 6-8 inch crappies if that’s your thing . I really don’t get the silver creek crowd unless I’m missing some thing .

Zumbro I was the only place I found A quality fish after sorting through 40 . I’m sure it’s headed the same way.

isu22andy wrote:

Zumbro I was the only place I found A quality fish after sorting through 40 . I’m sure it’s headed the same way.

I’ve lived in Rochester 72 years and have fished Lake Zumbro since I was 12. The correlation between the Lake and larger crappies for many remains a myth. And that’s ok. Catching them has zero to do with the spawn or ice fishing and electronics will not help.

Jimmy Jones wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>isu22andy wrote:</div>
Zumbro I was the only place I found A quality fish after sorting through 40 . I’m sure it’s headed the same way.

I’ve lived in Rochester 72 years and have fished Lake Zumbro since I was 12. The correlation between the Lake and larger crappies for many remains a myth. And that’s ok. Catching them has zero to do with the spawn or ice fishing and electronics will not help.

What are you seeing/hearing for pike and walleye populations in that lake ?

I think the walleyes are like the muskies that have been planted and that they may be there but not in enough numbers to go there and target them. Neither have been stocked for a few years so its entirely possible that they’ve mostly died off, but I did hear last day summer one day of a walleye that was close to 30″ having been caught and saw a picture of it. While muskies were planted several times in the lake, the best muskie fishing was below the dam in the river, down to near Hammond.

Pike are there and seem to multiply enough to support themselves. The lake is not over-run with them and they are not stocked. In the past ice anglers have done ok on them in some areas. I think the biggest threat to the pike is during the ice season when people use tip-ups and those treble hook quick strike rigs. Very little chance that c/r can happen when those rigs are used.

nord wrote:

Rochester people, you are only an hour to an hour and a half from some pretty decent fishing around Mankato, Faribault, and even the Mississippi River. You just need to step out of your box.

I spend 80% of my year fishing the Sippi and have for the last 25 years or so. I am very aware of the quality the river provides

gimruis wrote:

That’s exactly what I was getting at Dan. Use the <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>northern pike model.

Although have we turned this thing around yet with those small pike? I’m not so sure it’s made a significant improvement yet. Will take years to see a difference, and probably the same for panfish.

I am willing to bet the pike regs won’t change anything. The amount of people keepin small pike is minute.

Ripjiggen wrote:

The amount of people keepin small pike is minute.

Perhaps. But its possible that less large fish are being harvested too, which is helpful in controlling the smaller ones. Bigger pike love eating smaller ones. In many of these smaller lakes (without muskies), a large northern pike is the top predator.

We have a lake here in Ramsey Co. called Pleasant it is closed to fishing entirely, if you look at the report the #s and size of fish is good but not great (except for white bass) Sunnies are stunted. Some lakes just do not have the right habitat to produce #s or size for certain fish. BTW if you know how to handle a pike that is caught with a quick strike you can return them safely, ice dudes overall tend to keep more fish-someone who catches a pike with a plug in 80 degree water in the summer lets it flop around on the bottom of a hot aluminum boat will do more harm than me carefully removing a treble from a pike on the ice using a hemostat.

isu22andy wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>nord wrote:</div>

Zumbro I was the only place I found A quality fish after sorting through 40 . I’m sure it’s headed the same way.

I have fished the LZ a dozen or so times each year over the last 10 years. all the times have been out of my boat and i really struggled catching crappies out there until last fall. either i am onto something or that lake is going to be really good in the coming years. trusting my electronics is what worked for me so hopefully it continues?
As for walleye and pike…..i think i caught one of each in 100 or so trips there. i think you have a better chance at one thru the ice IMO?

A good example here in WI would be Twin Valley/Cox Hollow lakes,which are small reservoirs in Gov. Dodge state park.At one time,they had huge bluegill in them,but with a 50 fish limit,both became overrun with runt panfish.Many filled limits with the prime breeders and left the smaller ones.For a few years,Twin Valley had no daily bag limit on sunfish,Cox went with 10 daily limit.Also Cox has no minimum on bass size,but a 40″minimum on pike.Twin Valley is stocked with muskies and walleye.Seems to work,but will never be as good as the good old days.