Stefansky

The Browns aren’t a juggernaut but they are playing better. I’m thinking the kid can coach. Wish we still had him around here.

There was only one way to do that. It makes me nervous switching coaches because you never know which one was the good one! I was kind of hoping shurmur would find his way back but it hasn’t happened yet.

We messed up when we let tomlin go

crappie55369 wrote:

We messed up when we let tomlin go

The real mess up was when they hired Zim! We will just have to muddle around mediocracy until they realize he is never taking any team anywhere. Then we can start all over again from scratch…AGAIN…sounds about normal for the purple!

Ouch, big hit on Cook.

Vikings look like Grapes running around.

It still comes down to talent. Browns are way more stacked than the queens.

The Browns are ok. They’re a 7-3 team because of their schedule, rather than their head coach (in my opinion). They only have 1 win vs a team with a winning record, all 3 losses to teams with winning records.

Looks like Zimmer is finally getting along with an offensive coordinator. Been awhile.

You look at what Zim is doing, with the talent he has…

Then look at what Stef is doing with the talent he has…

I used to be a big fan of Spielman, trade master, but how this team can be in cap hell, with the lack of talent?!?!? I think this is where the change has to be made.

Cousins was a good investment at the time, wasn’t anything else they could do having already made the decision to let Bridgewater go. And I still think Cousins is a serviceable QB if all you want to strive for is making the playoff, but no further. But Spielman has done nothing to setup for future QB, the OL is always a mess, LB’s depth is abysmal, CB’s are always a project.

I think people forget how terrible the Vikings defense was before Zim got here. Offenses used to routinely pick us apart in the passing game (especially Rodgers). I saw a stat the other day that since Zim became coach the Vikings have had a top 5 defense every year.

This team is definitely hurting for talent. Hunter, Barr, Pierce out, and cornerbacks I’ve never heard of before. I put that more on the GM than the coach.

toddrun wrote:

I used to be a big fan of Spielman, trade master, but how this team can be in cap hell, with the lack of talent?!?!? I think this is where the change has to be made.

Bc they thought their window was open the last 2 years, and couldn’t close the deal. So now they are carrying some massive contracts into a remodel. And it’s TBD on a lack of talent, there’s just a huge discrepancy between veterans on big contracts and young guys new to the league that may or may not pan out. I’d say the early signs look pretty good on Jefferson, Gladney, Dantzler, Cleveland etc tho. I’ve soured on Spielman too, mainly for the Yangakwe (sp?) deal and the OL failures, but for the most part this is the cost of doing business as they have. Cousins is here for at least next year as well, so hopefully they get a young QB to learn and compete with Kirk next year.

Anyone notice our record with the guy Werm can’t spell and the ravens record since acquiring him. He has 2 wins on the season.

Not to derail this thread from the Stefansky headline to Spielman’s ability to address the O-line, but since 2015 the vikings have picked eight offensive lineman at or before round 5. I would say that of all those picks, we’ve hit for sure on O’neil, Bradbury, and HOPEFULLY Ezra Cleveland. That means whoever is evaluating o-line talent for the draft is 3/8…..not great. Whether that is Spielman or one of the scouts, they need to find someone who is more capable of evaluating o-line talent.

Spielman holds the keys to the bus. He is the guy who takes the fall for all these failed draft choices and free agent signings.

The Dolphins are just this year crawling out of the mess Spielman created when he ran them.

Dutch he came to the Vikings in 2006. It doesn’t take 14 years to crawl out a hole in the NFL. I’m thinking they have had their own set of troubles. There probably hasn’t been a guy on Miami’s roster that Rick drafted in 8 years probably closer to 10.

Dutchboy wrote:

The Dolphins are just this year crawling out of the mess Spielman created when he ran them.

Hahahahahahahaha I get you like to stir the pot, but cmon Dutch! He left Miami in 2005, and the average NFL career is like 3-4 years, so their roster has turned over about 4x since then lol. Meanwhile he has been GM here since 2012, and they have averaged 8 wins per season with 4 playoff trips in 8 full seasons as GM. Obviously hasn’t gotten over the hump to a SB, but far from terrible.

Apparently myself and werm were writing at the same time.

Consider me corrected.

Spielman has to go, period!

DeRangedFishinguy wrote:

Spielman has to go, period!

Good luck! Him and Zimmer just signed 4 year extensions, so he will be here another 2-3 years minimum. Unless Ziggy wants to pay 2 GM’s (and probably 2 HC’s) at the same time thru 2023.

I think Spielman is an above average GM, and drafter, but his short-comings in certain positions kills his overall score. And I will agree with the statement, he may not be picking these players but relying on other scouts to help him, but it is his prerogative to fire those not working.

Never drafted a franchise QB. Bridgewater possibly could have become that, but that it speculative at best.

Never drafted a quality 3rd LB, and I am not convinced that Barr is up to the hype as a 2nd LB.

CB’s I believe is all on Zim, that is supposed to be his baby, but more failures than stars.

Promote the guy that is finding the mid to late round WR’s, that is the guy that is doing magic.

In the end, it is not exact science, but missing on 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks consistently gets you FIRED.

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>DeRangedFishinguy wrote:</div>
Spielman has to go, period!

Good luck! Him and Zimmer just signed 4 year extensions, so he will be here another 2-3 years minimum. Unless Ziggy wants to pay 2 GM’s (and probably 2 HC’s) at the same time thru 2023.

You’re right! And that is exactly why I quit wasting my time with them. I’ve been screaming for him to go for the last 5 years, at least, and finally had enough after yet another horrible draft last spring. I follow the team enough to keep a pulse on them, but I have watched maybe a combined half of football, tops, all season. Once the house is cleaned, I’ll maybe give them my time and energy again.

DeRangedFishinguy wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>DeRangedFishinguy wrote:</div>
Spielman has to go, period!

Good luck! Him and Zimmer just signed 4 year extensions, so he will be here another 2-3 years minimum. Unless Ziggy wants to pay 2 GM’s (and probably 2 HC’s) at the same time thru 2023.

You’re right! And that is exactly why I quit wasting my time with them. I’ve been screaming for him to go for the last 5 years, at least, and finally had enough after yet another horrible draft last spring. I follow the team enough to keep a pulse on them, but I have watched maybe a combined half of football, tops, all season. Once the house is cleaned, I’ll maybe give them my time and energy again.

Are you talking this past spring? Justin Jefferson has been the best rookie WR to come out of this year’s draft, Gladney is looking great for a rookie corner so far, and Ezra Cleveland has looked promising in the few games he’s played. If you expect all 14 draft picks to come in and make a difference immediately then your bar is set so incredibly high that there isn’t a GM on this earth who will make you happy.

toddrun wrote:

I think Spielman is an above average GM, and drafter, but his short-comings in certain positions kills his overall score. And I will agree with the statement, he may not be picking these players but relying on other scouts to help him, but it is his prerogative to fire those not working.

Never drafted a franchise QB. Bridgewater possibly could have become that, but that it speculative at best.

This is true but also have to be in a position to draft one.

Never drafted a quality 3rd LB, and I am not convinced that Barr is up to the hype as a 2nd LB.

No need the 3rd linebacker plays 20-30percent of defensive snaps. Most teams don’t have a great third linebacker that run a 4-3 scheme.

CB’s I believe is all on Zim, that is supposed to be his baby, but more failures than stars.

Rhodes Wayne’s and Alexander were all pretty solid. You don’t have a top five defense with out solid CB play.

Promote the guy that is finding the mid to late round WR’s, that is the guy that is doing magic.

That would be one player and he is no longer on the team. Promote the scout to be the GM?

In the end, it is not exact science, but missing on 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks consistently gets you FIRED.

All GMs miss it’s the big hits that keep you around. I am not saying he is a great GM because that is usually determined by championships but I also don’t think he has been that bad at drafting either.

More often than not, when a coordinator has great success with one team, they are the radar of several other teams as a potential head coaching candidate. I can think of a couple examples very recently from just the Vikings which include Pat Shurmur and Kevin Stefanski. There are many more around the league too.

Sometimes they work out as a head coach on another team, sometimes they don’t. Its hard to gauge it after only 1+ season unless they completely wet the bed. It seems like they usually don’t get a second chance at being a head coach if they fail during the first stint though. They usually stay in the league but they’re demoted to some kind of assistant coach.

Leslie Frazier was a good example of this. In his first season as head coach, he did pretty good. He ran a 10-6 record but it was largely because of Adrian Peterson’s MVP season. After that season, he failed and was let go. He’s been tossed around since on other teams and is currently the defensive coordinator of Buffalo, who has a top 10 defense.

waldo9190 wrote:

Are you talking this past spring? Justin Jefferson has been the best rookie WR to come out of this year’s draft, Gladney is looking great for a rookie corner so far, and Ezra Cleveland has looked promising in the few games he’s played. If you expect all 14 draft picks to come in and make a difference immediately then your bar is set so incredibly high that there isn’t a GM on this earth who will make you happy.

I should have also added the lack of anything during FA and throwing the farm at a 3rd rate QB, as well as a poor draft.

While JJ seems to have proven himself to be a solid pick, WR was not a priority for this team to be competitive this season with their first pick. The O-line has been a big gaping hole with this team forever and should have been adequately addressed, immediately in the draft and in FA. It may even have kept Diggs around. When we again ignored it until late in the draft, on top of not addressing it in FA, I knew we were in for a bad year.

Spielman sucks, period!

DeRangedFishinguy wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>waldo9190 wrote:</div>
Are you talking this past spring? Justin Jefferson has been the best rookie WR to come out of this year’s draft, Gladney is looking great for a rookie corner so far, and Ezra Cleveland has looked promising in the few games he’s played. If you expect all 14 draft picks to come in and make a difference immediately then your bar is set so incredibly high that there isn’t a GM on this earth who will make you happy.

I should have also added the lack of anything during FA and throwing the farm at a 3rd rate QB, as well as a poor draft.

While JJ seems to have proven himself to be a solid pick, WR was not a priority for this team to be competitive this season with their first pick. The O-line has been a big gaping hole with this team forever and should have been adequately addressed, immediately in the draft and in FA. It may even have kept Diggs around. When we again ignored it until late in the draft, on top of not addressing it in FA, I knew we were in for a bad year.

Spielman sucks, period!

When you have as much money as we do tied up into Cousins (meh), Barr (big meh), Hunter, Cook, and Hitman, it is going to be hard to sign a FA lineman who is actually going to be an improvement over what we have. The only real option is to try and develop the young guys that we have currently, and then hopefully continue to draft them.

So instead of taking the best player that is at the position you are drafting you just want them to draft an O-linemen regardless. Got it.

Well the proof is in the pudding. You can defend him all you want. Whatever needed to happen to get solid O-line help is what he should have done. No excuses!

toddrun wrote:

Never drafted a quality 3rd LB, and I am not convinced that Barr is up to the hype as a 2nd LB.

CB’s I believe is all on Zim, that is supposed to be his baby, but more failures than stars.

Eric Wilson is playing at a Pro Bowl level this year. Gedeon was more than serviceable before injuries derailed his career.

Xavier Rhodes was the best CB in the league, until he listened to how great he was, but still signed a nice deal and was playing very well for the Colts. Waynes and Alexander signed big free agent deals after learning under Zim. And this next batch of CB’s all look to be trending toward long NFL careers (top picks Hughes, Gladney, Dantzler, along with bottom round/FA’s Boyd, Jones, Hill and Hand). There’s a lot of things that are fair criticism of Zim, but secondary development ain’t it, Terrance Newman was serviceable for 20 years under Zimmer lol. Who are the failures?!?! He hits on almost anyone you give him.