Status of pool 4 presentation

This coming monday february 2nd at 7pm the walleye searchers of southern mn has asked the mn dnr lake city office to come to our monthly meeting again and do a presentation on the “status of pool 4” This presentation is jam packed with info from netting and electro fishing results and everything else in between! anyone and everyone is invited to come to the presentation and if you would like you can stick around for our club meeting afterwards and see if our club is something you are interested in if not thats fine to. any questions you have i will try to answer as quickly as possible thanks and look forward to seeing everyone monday night!

“Big Nick” does and awesome job in his presentations.

If you’re in the area it’s worth taking in.

We’ll need the address though!

thanks BK I suppose that will be helpful. The presentation will be at 7pm at the elks club in rochester right off highway 52.

1652 highway 52 north rochester mn 55901

Where does this take place? Thanks

LOL sorry, timed that perfectly

Ask them what effect fishing the spawning run has on the population.

Mike, that’s been asked before…I believe it was you that asked it.

You should make this meeting. The DNR has the data to back up it’s claims.

1. What effect does fishing the spawn have on the Pool 4 walleye/sauger population?

2. Why there isn’t a minimum size on sauger like the 15″ on walleye?

3. Why isn’t the scour hole closed off?

4. With the heavy pressure on Pool 4, why isn’t there a lower bag limit?

This is a fantastic time to ask questions face to face with one of the guys that puts the numbers together and comes up with recommendations.

All we have to do is show up…and it’s 7:00 pm so us Joe Fishermen can attend!

Brian Klawitter wrote:

Mike, that’s been asked before…I believe it was you that asked it.

You should make this meeting. The DNR has the data to back up it’s claims.

1. What effect does fishing the spawn have on the Pool 4 walleye/sauger population?

2. Why there isn’t a minimum size on sauger like the 15″ on walleye?

3. Why isn’t the scour hole closed off?

4. With the heavy pressure on Pool 4, why isn’t there a lower bag limit?

This is a fantastic time to ask questions face to face with one of the guys that puts the numbers together and comes up with recommendations.

All we have to do is show up…and it’s 7:00 pm so us Joe Fishermen can attend!

All good questions

suzuki wrote:

Ask them what effect fishing the spawning run has on the population.

…They have been asked that same ?? going on 60yrs. now.. And there answer has always been the Same. NO IT DOES NOT HAVE ANY MAJOR EFFECT ON THE SPAWN. Sorry to say that I can remember when the year around fishing started… It was a huge daaa-bait back then and it still is today.! I have 2 friends that were biologists that worked out of the DNR office at lake city. Both of them have maintained the same thing that NO it does not hurt the spawn on the big river. So I don’t think they are to change now. But Who Knows FOR Sure. Guess I better go to the meeting to fined out… …rrr

as BK and Randy said those questions have been asked for yrs and it makes the explanation the dnr has alot easier to understand when they have the powerpoint right there with the data. like i said everyone is invited to this presentation it usually lasts around an hour or so and they are more than willing to answer questions afterwards.

There’s a few unprecedented things going on this 44 mile stretch of the river starting this year.

Catch and Release Lake Sturgeon Fishing

and

A Closed Flathead Catfish season starting December 1st.

bump

I am going to attend both the pool 4 demonstration and the group meeting. Possibly interested in joining and hoping to get some information about the group Monday night.

Hey Randy i grew up fishing pools 4 & 5, i was night fishing for eyes since i was 8 yrs old with my dad [according to the pictures] that was 46 yrs ago, and i & my fishing buddies since then were always asked buy the survey people how we did some would even target our boat cause they knew we always fished hard in all weather conditions as i’m sure you have, we always gave them a honest report and drilled them on the status of the fishery and they said exactly what you said,but when we thought it was bumper boats back in the day it’s no comparison to what it’s turned into now since the internet arrived. I can’t believe the pressure hasn;t affected the spawn somewhat, that said as you know, there’s more fish caught and kept after the spawn when they throw the old feed bag on and are easy pickins, i guess my point is it doesn’t matter what time of year the fish are kept but the pressure has to affect it in my opinion, but they have the numbers to back it up, high water for an extended period of time after the spawn usually shows a better hatch for that year, just my opinion

look forward to meeting ya Jon!!!

Hey Outdraft Yes I have to agree with you about the pressure being a lot more now. But there was still a lot of bumper boat days back when. Another factor is the average fisherman are Much Much better now than they were yrs. ago. And of course all the modern equipment from boats motor electronics etc etc etc. plus how the night fishing has taken off Big Time.! There has always been a few that did the night fishing thing, But now the there is a HUDGE night crowd. I have few buds that fish more at night than they do in the daylight. Heck they are even stating to have night time walleye tourneys now!… One thing for sure if I don’t ask the DNR about this topic some one will…I will report back what the DNR as to say… rrr

Pool 4 is an amazingly resilient fishery.

Tomorrow is the presentation!

Bring your questions but be nice to Nick, he has feelings too.

7pm
Elks club in rochester right off highway 52.

1652 highway 52 north rochester mn 55901

Looking forward to talking with folks tonight.

Nick

river rat randy wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>suzuki wrote:</div>
Ask them what effect fishing the spawning run has on the population.

…They have been asked that same ?? going on 60yrs. now.. And there answer has always been the Same. NO IT DOES NOT HAVE ANY MAJOR EFFECT ON THE SPAWN. Sorry to say that I can remember when the year around fishing started… It was a huge daaa-bait back then and it still is today.! I have 2 friends that were biologists that worked out of the DNR office at lake city. Both of them have maintained the same thing that NO it does not hurt the spawn on the big river. So I don’t think they are to change now. But Who Knows FOR Sure. Guess I better go to the meeting to fined out… …rrr

…Ok just got home form the MN DNR talk on the status of pool 4. Nick Schlesser gave a very informational talk to say the least. He had lots Data with facts and figures grafts etc etc. As of this time they Do Not have any stats. That leads them to believe that the year around fishing has any major effect on the spawn. That being said nick also said that there is a slight chance that it mite have some effect on the spawn. But at this time there is not any data to back that up. He also stated that they keep sharp eye on it for any changes.. That one of the biggest things that effect the spawn is what type of spawning conditions they have at the time of spawn. High water cold water warm water low water quick change of water temps etc etc. But in the end it all evens out at some point. Good spawns bad spawns middle of the road spawns…. NICK feel free to jump in here and correct me if i have any of the facts wrong… rrr .PS For the younger members here that mite not know. It was wi. that started the year around fishing not Mn…For a number of years you could only fish on the wi. side, cause it was closed on mn side of the river. That made for a real mess in enforcement alone. I believe it was that way for 5 or 6 yrs. before Mn opened the season year around to..

I attended the presentation also and found it very interesting to hear how the DNR collects its data and how they use that to determine the health of the fishery. I feel a lot more confident about what the DNR tells us as a result of this meeting (I am not including ML in this discussion). Here are a couple of things I found interesting.

The walleyes in pool 4 do not live typically longer than 8 years and the ones that make it that long are mostly males. The quote was the walleyes grow fast and die young.

During the high water flood a few years back a lot of the saugers swam up into pool 3 and reduced the population in pool 4 which is coming back.

High sustained hot weather in the summer is very hard on the large walleyes and contributed to a significant die off a couple of summers ago.

Crappie fishing should be good on pool 4 the next couple years as there is historically high numbers of crappies in the system now and need a few years to get to the desired target size of most anglers.

I forgot to ask BK question about closing the scour hole below the dam as I think that would be a reasonable solution to protecting a lot smaller fish. What I took away from the presentation and my guess the answer would be is that MN and WI cannot come together on agreement so it stays open.

I forgot to ask BK question about closing the scour hole below the dam as I think that would be a reasonable solution to protecting a lot smaller fish. What I took away from the presentation and my guess the answer would be is that MN and WI cannot come together on agreement so it stays open.

I’ve heard the answer before but it keeps coming up.

Nick, if you would please.

@LCDNRFisheries

Sure Brian,

Though it can be difficult to come to a management consensus between states that is NOT the reason that we have not closed the “scour hole” to angling on Pool 4.

Though there is mortality associated with catching fish like Walleye and Sauger from deep water (the typical rule of thumb is that 30ft is the break point below which mortality rapidly increases) the fish typically impacted are small ie young Sauger that are typically experiencing high natural mortality and are available in large numbers meaning that the effect of their loss on the population as a whole is relatively minimal.

That being said we have been attempting to deal with concerns about angler pressure focused on the scour hole for a number of years now, and in several ways. Primarily we tried to provide information to anglers about the realities of hooking mortality when fishing deep water. This was attempted through posters and flyers as part of an educational push after we completed a two year hooking mortality on Sauger below LD3 in 2007. That affirmed studies done else where indicating that catching Sauger deeper than ~30 down results in relatively high mortality rates. The table attached as a picture to this post shows a breakdown of the Sauger sampled. Note I have converted the measurements from metric to standard which results in some gaps in the depths of each strata due to conversion. The full document is available for review on the lake city area office webpage or through the link below.
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/areas/fisheries/lakecity/2007_winteranglingmortality.pdf

There have been internal discussions about the viability of a closure on the “scour hole” area, and the general feeling of the enforcement folks involved was that clearly definable geographic boundaries would be required to make such a closure enforceable. The most likely of those boundaries would be the split at the Y and would have resulted in a closure from the Y to the dam. Our feeling was that a closure from the Y to the dam would remove a significant portion of the desired angling water from angler use and we deemed it unlikely to get support from most anglers.

As I indicated last night at the meeting we are aware of many of the concerns the public has and do monitor the various populations either directly or indirectly looking for trends that would raise concern about this or other issues affecting the populations in Pool 4. I am happy to try to answer specific questions individuals have so feel free to contact me if you have questions. I do my best to post responses to commonly asked questions as they arise so that others can benefit from the information as well.

Hopefully all my attachments and links worked properly, and this explains our perspective on the “scour hole” issue adequately for you Brian. Let me know if there are still questions.

Nick

Attachments:

1. 

   Hooking-Mort-Table.png
   

Nick, below the Alma lock and dam there is an area marked off as a refuge each march and April. The refuge is marked by large signs on either shore. There doesn’t seem to be much of a problem with compliance. Why can’t the same method be used in Red Wing without drawing the line at the Y ?

The same closure is in effect below LD 3 during the same period in the spring each year, and to be honest I don’t remember the particular reasons why the Y was the general consensus. The conversation was a number of years ago. I do know that the enforcement folks deal with numerous violations of the restricted zone below LD3 every year. If I had to guess I would say that compliance is likely lower below LD3 than LD4 if only because below LD4 boaters that are encroaching on the closed zone are readily visible to both the lock operators and any shore based COs or public that may report them whereas at LD3 the split tends to limit visibility for the public and Lock staff and require that a CO be sitting at the dam in a boat to enforce the “line”.

Maybe just a big sign on the shore line near the scour stating catching fish from deeper than 30′ kills the fish? Or something along those lines.

For those asking for part of the river to be closed think I would watch what you are asking for. Sounds to me like you might not like what you get.

In the day of ubiquitous cell phones and cameras I think the anglers would do a pretty good job of policing themselves. When fishing below Alma dam if someone ignores a warning from a fellow fisherman the COs know it pretty quick.

Ydog, there are many…many boat that go closer to the dam then the 150 foot mark now. So for policing themselves…the jury is out on that at least in my humble opinion. To your point, they could do a good job though.

Mike, I was at the bait shop when the flyers were handed out. Even now there are some in state and out state residents that I’ve walked through the mortality rates and I hear later the scour hole is where they were fishing.

No one wants to go home saying they didn’t catch a fish.

BTW there is nothing wrong with fishing the hole as long as each fish is taken home…even if that means 6 ten inch fish.

Thanks for taking the time Nick. I know you have other things on your plate.

Brian I’m sure you’re aware that it’s 300 feet in March & April, that said the water temps are warmer in p4 which I believe those fish migrate upstream & spawn sooner and since it rarely freezes they are more vulnerable earlier than p5

We had a conversation in the Mississippi Walleye forum last year about the Sheriff ticketing folks for going past the 300′ line at that time of year.

Since I’m generally busy scooping minnows I don’t get out that much then. I was referring to the boats I’ve seen in a 75′ (estimated) area.

Bottom line is the fishery is still as healthy (according to the data) as it was 20 years ago.

Scour hole fishing
Better Electronics
2 or 3 lines
More boaters
Open during the spawn
or not.

Of course there will always be the thought if one fish is taken, how can that be good for the fishery.

Ya I hear you, the only way to enforce the 300 foot mark is to have the wardens show up more often as well as the 150′ line