Spot Lock-Help Needed

  • riverrat56
    New Ulm, MN
    Posts: 175
    #1621982

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>riverrat56 wrote:</div>
    For those wondering, I’ve had a Terrova and now an Xi5 in the past two years so I feel confident in my opinions.

    The Xi5 anchor mode is hands down better than Minn Kota. It’s not even close. But, that isn’t to say the Xi5 is problem free unit, I’ve had issues with both. Minn Kota has a much nicer remote and the cruise control is much better as well.

    So how is the auto pilot on the Xi5?

    I haven’t used it much, rarely do I want to go in a straight line but it seems to work fairly well. To be truthful, my bowmount is used almost exclusively on anchor mode to pitch or vertical jig

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22539
    #1621985

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Mike W wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>riverrat56 wrote:</div>
    For those wondering, I’ve had a Terrova and now an Xi5 in the past two years so I feel confident in my opinions.

    The Xi5 anchor mode is hands down better than Minn Kota. It’s not even close. But, that isn’t to say the Xi5 is problem free unit, I’ve had issues with both. Minn Kota has a much nicer remote and the cruise control is much better as well.

    So how is the auto pilot on the Xi5?

    I haven’t used it much, rarely do I want to go in a straight line but it seems to work fairly well. To be truthful, my bowmount is used almost exclusively on anchor mode to pitch or vertical jig

    I use the xi5 autopilot mode with cruise control religiously when rigging for walleyes. I find that it works considerably better than the minn kota it replaced but I had a power drive unit previously.
    I mainly engage the autopilot just to get me going in a general direct but make continued adjustments to follow certain nav tracks or contours.

    FryDog62
    Posts: 3696
    #1621986

    Been HB and iPilot since inception but If the Xi5 would follow the contour on a Garmin I’d be writing the check for both today —

    I think if you could have a good spot-lock, follow the contour, and Garmin Live-Vu, you’d have about the ideal set up ~

    Tim Bossert
    Cochrane, WI
    Posts: 429
    #1622043

    I use the xi5 autopilot mode with cruise control religiously when rigging for walleyes. I find that it works considerably better than the minn kota it replaced but I had a power drive unit previously.
    I mainly engage the autopilot just to get me going in a general direct but make continued adjustments to follow certain nav tracks or contours.

    I love love love my Xi5 for the anchor function. I have yet to even think about pulling an actual anchor from below deck. It holds very, very well in both high current and/or wind and is solid on position all day. Jog feature is the bomb. Absolutely love that.

    I am disappointed in the heading lock feature. It seems to constantly want to turn to the right. Always on the remote correcting it. Spoke to Motorguide and they recommended recalibrating. Didn’t help. Brand new with latest software. It seems whenever I try the cruise control with it, it does the turn in circles and loses its mind thing. Scared to use it because of that. really hoping another software update comes soon to at least improve the heading lock/cruise control issues. Want to use it on GB for crawler harnesses soon.

    Anyone else have that? OR better yet, a true fix?

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22539
    #1622070

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>CaptainMusky wrote:</div>
    I use the xi5 autopilot mode with cruise control religiously when rigging for walleyes. I find that it works considerably better than the minn kota it replaced but I had a power drive unit previously.
    I mainly engage the autopilot just to get me going in a general direct but make continued adjustments to follow certain nav tracks or contours.

    I love love love my Xi5 for the anchor function. I have yet to even think about pulling an actual anchor from below deck. It holds very, very well in both high current and/or wind and is solid on position all day. Jog feature is the bomb. Absolutely love that.

    I am disappointed in the heading lock feature. It seems to constantly want to turn to the right. Always on the remote correcting it. Spoke to Motorguide and they recommended recalibrating. Didn’t help. Brand new with latest software. It seems whenever I try the cruise control with it, it does the turn in circles and loses its mind thing. Scared to use it because of that. really hoping another software update comes soon to at least improve the heading lock/cruise control issues. Want to use it on GB for crawler harnesses soon.

    Anyone else have that? OR better yet, a true fix?

    I dont want to hijack this thread but you wouldn’t be using the foot pedal and remote at same time would you? If so that caused some issues early on. Otherwise change the remote batteries. I haven’t had those issues at all but I know a couple have. Get motorguide to send you a dongle to reset the motor if the other things don’t fix it.

    Rick Janssen
    Posts: 330
    #1622073

    My Terrova, I find it is only really nice to use when there is some current or wind. Then the correction stays at a modest speed and the correction sort of stops closer to the actual point… vs overshooting it, then correcting to get back again.

    Is Motorguide’s system that much better? Thought I seen a thread here once where that was implied

    I have the Motorguide – just go it this. It still kicks in pretty fast if you are moving fast. If you are going slow it is pretty good. I have starting approaching my spot slower and it works well. As far as holding once it is set – it is AWESOME. I had my wife and 5 year old grand daughter out yesterday. We used it often and had no problems.

    MIKGILLIE
    Owatonna,MN.
    Posts: 154
    #1622085

    I sent mine back and they said it checked out fine but he still put a new board and something else and said that I must have a voltage problem,brand new boat and batteries.I checked voltage and replaced trolling plug and still anchor lock is only functional if you tie the anchor rope around the trolling motor and advanced auto pilot is useless.Very disappointed and done with minkota if they cant fix this to function AS IT SHOULD FOR A 1600 DOLLAR MOTOR.

    Tim Bossert
    Cochrane, WI
    Posts: 429
    #1622087

    Captain, all has been done/tried. When I first contacted Motorguide I asked specifically about the dongle as I had heard that of that issue before. They told me that was for the first wave that went out before Lowrance had their software up to date. I was told it was built Feb. of this year (bought March 2016) and it has the most recent everything. I was then asked to recalibrate. I was also told to recalibrate if I fish more than 100 miles from previous calibration. So, every time I cross the state to fish, I am told I need to recalibrate the internal compass.

    Wonder what the next-gen Xi5 will bring to the table.

    gizmoguy
    Crystal,MN
    Posts: 756
    #1622112

    That kind of behaivior and difference sounds like the algorithm. That said what I have been able to learn is the MG works better mainly due to having 2 GPS recievers. It was how they got around the MK patent. Thats one reason it is more stable. The GPS position is more accurate. Obviously MG have a different alogrithm too. If the MK GPS wanders 30 feet and it responds with max output that is the algorithm adjusting to the percieved position. I know how fast it can move the front of the boat when it does that. Not good. Someone could be throwen out of the boat. I don’t think MK wins that wrongful death lawsuit. I have had MG in the past and I will not go back. Nothing but problems. I’m waiting for MK to get a better GPS reciever and alogrithm. I have an older Terrova 101 with i-link and it is fair. But I won’t ponie up $2500 until I know its much much better. And as been stated MK will loose people to MG in the mean time.

    FryDog62
    Posts: 3696
    #1622317

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>biggill wrote:</div>
    Been using mine for 3 years and this is my biggest disappointment. Sorry, that doesn’t help.

    Couldn’t agree more. I ran three different Ulterra bow mounts this spring on three diffrrent boats and all three…the spot lock is nearly useless. I feel I’m far better off running the motor manually versuses putting up with the constant over-corrections.

    James, I’m wondering with your connections in the industry or through the dealer, if you know anyone that can tell us if this issue is something that can be fixed via software upgrade – or is it a major overhaul for the next generation Ulterra motors. Seems to be enough of us with the same concern (seen it on other sites too).

    I’m one of those people that plans to buy either this year or early next and would be willing to pull the trigger on a new Ulterra if its fixable. Otherwise, might as well wait (1, 2, 3?) years until the next generation comes out, or consider buying another brand. Rapid acceleration to get back to a spot is a safety concern to me as much as a nuisance.

    Jonesy
    Posts: 1148
    #1622330

    The reason the XI5 is better is because it’s anchor feature runs off of both GPS and compass direction. The MinnKota system runs only off of GPS. I have a 24V terrova and had a 12V PDv2 both with I pilot. They worked well in river and waves and thankfully I have not had them jump into rabbit mode.

    FryDog62
    Posts: 3696
    #1622332

    True, the iPilot will have to adjust more than the Xi5 but would seem to me to be a software adjustment to get the iPilot to accelerate back to the spot more gradually… ??

    Jonesy
    Posts: 1148
    #1622342

    True, the iPilot will have to adjust more than the Xi5 but would seem to me to be a software adjustment to get the iPilot to accelerate back to the spot more gradually… ??

    I would think so.

    MNSmallieGuy
    Minnesota
    Posts: 109
    #1622344

    So yeah in certain weather conditions the spot lock on my 36v 101lb Terrova pilot link is not super precise. I suspect there is a fine line between battery consumption and programming these things to keep you tight to a spot. However, when winds are manageable (10-15mph) it happens to do a very nice job of keep ing me close to the area I am fishing, it meets my expectations.

    Expectations are the key, if you think any spot lock system will keep you close enough to a spot to drop shot or vertical jig specific fish you may have set the expectation bar too high. in reading this thread the one thing I can agree on is that from time to time, usually upon setting the spot lock for the first time the motor jumps to high power to correct itself. I find my motor rarely reverts back to using high power after that initial set. The high power surge is dangerous but I ready myself for it.

    As for ALL the other features this motor offers from speed control to follow the contour to auto pilot to compass the motor is fantastic. It allows me to focus on reading patterns, determining presentation tweeks, rigging, teaching and equipping my fishing partners. It flat out makes me a better fisherman. For that, I can overlook the effectiveness of one feature in more extreme winds / current.

    gizmoguy
    Crystal,MN
    Posts: 756
    #1622407

    I would like to be on the design team for the next gen system. Every boat is different such as weight, hull design and displacement. One size does not fit all. So the current program will cause different rates of reaction as the system constantly adjusts to the perceived GPS position. A smaller displacement of a bass boat may not need the power of a 36 volt system but choose to do so based on the added capacity. I would suggest a user selectable scalable sensitivity level. That way the boater could adjust the response time and intensity based on the boat and user preference. Kind of like adjusting your mouse speed on your computer. They could use the same thing on the foot pedal too.
    I would also suggest linked systems could use the Humminbird GPS signal in addition to one in the trolling motor for additional control. Averaging a second GPS location would reduce the position from wandering so much and reduce the need to readjust. I don’t know if these items would be possable or within the cost/scope of the next gen system. Then there is always IP to worry about or work around.

    walleye216
    Posts: 91
    #1622586

    I have a terrova 80 with i-pilot and it works well in spot lock mode. It is not perfect, but better than a regular anchor.

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #1622668

    James, I’m wondering with your connections in the industry or through the dealer, if you know anyone that can tell us if this issue is something that can be fixed via software upgrade – or is it a major overhaul for the next generation Ulterra motors. Seems to be enough of us with the same concern (seen it on other sites too).

    Unfortunately I don’t know anyone in engineering at MinnKota or MotorGuide to reach out to about this. Everything I know has come from using both the Ulterra and the Xi5 extensively on a number of different boats and sharing experiences with other anglers I trust.

    To be completely honest about the performance of both the Ulterra and the Xi5, both motors fall short of my expectations with each motor having its own strong points and areas of weakness.

    In my opinion, the Ulterra falls short with regards to spot-lock and auto-pilot capabilities. I know this is going to sound harsh but the spot-lock and the auto-pilot functionality on ALL the Minn Kota motors I’ve run in the last two seasons… something’s just not right. The spot-lock throws the boats I’ve fished in all over the place… 50 foot off to the left… the speed ramps up to correct…. and we over-shoot the spot 50 feet to the right. And it never seems to settle in. And this happens if the wind speed is light or heavy. Doesn’t matter. I’ve given up even trying to use it. I’ve seen spot-lock work with other products so I’m not going to give them a pass because my expectations are too high.

    The issues with the auto-pilot are equally frustrating. When I click the auto-pilot on I expect the motor to pull me in that general direction. For reasons I don’t understand the motor pulls to the left / port side every time. In multiple boats I’ve fished from. I can see the motor trying to correct the heading but it veers to the left each and every time. Why left? I have no idea. But the drift is considerable and I end up correcting the course so often I find I’m better off not even using it.

    So what does the Minn Kota do well? The stow and deploy system on the Ulterra is very solid and so far has been very reliable. I enjoy using the Ulterra foot pedal. The Ulterra 112# motors are very powerful and quiet in the water with the prop spinning. The remote control for the Ulterra, while being a little large, has a nice LCD screen that allows me to monitor all my settings. I like that.

    So how about the Xi5? I had an Xi5 on my WX 2190 last season and got a chance to use it extensively. The spot-lock functionality of the Xi5 is incredible. I mean it is a night and day better in comparison to the spot-lock of the Ulterra. It doesn’t over-correct and it handles changes in wind velocity and current better than some of my fishing buddy’s can pull off when driving manually. In all honesty if I hadn’t experienced how good the spot-lock on the Xi5 is I likely wouldn’t be so critical of this feature on the Ulterra. After seeing how well it can be implemented on one system… I expect it to work that well on competing systems. And I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

    The “jog” function offered by the Xi5 is awesome. For those not familiar, when you’re “spot-locked” you can use the arrow keys on the Xi5 remote to move your lock. Hit the “up” arrow once and the boat moves the spot-lock “forward / twelve o’ clock position” five feet. Hit it twice, you move 10 feet. If you want to go 10 feet forward and 5 feet to the right (3 o’ clock position” hit the up arrow twice, the right arrow once. When it comes to refining a spot-lock position… the jog functionality is one I use all the time – love it!

    The auot-pilot on the Xi5 also works well. When I point it in a direction, it goes in that direction.

    So here’s where I think the Xi5 could be better…

    The Xi5 foot pedal is one of my least favorite things about the Xi5 system. I’m proud of my boat control abilities and I put a lot of focus on getting the boat where it needs to be and keeping it there so everyone in the boat can catch fish. With the Xi5 foot pedal, I struggle due to the way the turning speed of the motor changes as you move the head from side to side. When the motor is pointed forward or slightly off-center in either direction the motor turns slowly. Once you get off-center in either direction suddenly the turning speed of the motor increases dramatically. I guess this is supposed to be a feature but I find it dysfunctional. I’ve never been able to get used to it and my boat control suffers for it.

    The remote for the Xi5 is lacking an LCD screen which means you don’t have the ability to monitor any of your settings. I want a remote that allows me to see prop speed, whether spot-lock is engaged, etc.

    The Xi5 is one noisy bugger in the water with the stock prop at high speeds and the Xi5 prop is far less durable than the prop on the Minn Kota.

    The Xi5 is listed at 105# thrust but it seems to have considerably less “oompff” that the Minn Kota does with only a 7# thrust difference. If I had to guess why I’d look at the prop design first… but that’s just a hunch.

    So in the end, after using both motors extensively, I’m of the opinion that Minn Kota and Motor Guide need to share technology so we can have the best of both worlds! grin My ideal motor would combine the Ulterra foot pedal and remote with Xi5’s spot-lock, jog function and Auto-pilot.

    Obviously they’re not going to do that so as consumers we have to hope that the on-going competition between the two companies will push both to refining their offerings. If they don’t I wouldn’t be too surprised if we see a third-party get into the mix to meet angler’s demands.

    Tim Bossert
    Cochrane, WI
    Posts: 429
    #1622676

    Great post James. Curious if you had the gateway from Motorguide installed and networked to your Lowrance? I saw everything you stated, but in addition I have the faulty autopilot on my Xi5 in that it always wants to veer right. I do not have the gateway installed.

    As stated in my previous posts, I purchased in March of this year and Motorguide told me it was built in Feb (based on serial number) so I have the latest everything (including software). I have tried to recalibrate multiple times (per their request) and it still wants to veer right.

    My theory is this…while pitching Rippin Raps on Green Bay this spring we had heavy winds and waves. Anchor mode worked great, but then we wanted to do a controlled drift to cover more water when the bite slowed. While running the prop motor manually, the head wanted to slowly turn with each rise and fall of the bow in the waves. I had the head pointing into the wind and simply wanted to slow us down. I believe this was happening due to the torque of the prop motor overpowering the holding power of the turning motor. In other words the prop slowly “walked” in the direction of prop spin through the water, thus turning the head. I also saw this recently on Lake Michigan while trying to troll with the kicker for power and steer with the Xi5. Using the heading lock (again in wind/waves) it just constantly veered right. Even in manual steer, it would always veer right in the surge. A stronger/stiffer motor up top for steering might be a fix. Of course this then plays into battery life, speed, etc… so not just a plug and play change.

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #1622724

    Great post James. Curious if you had the gateway from Motorguide installed and networked to your Lowrance? I saw everything you stated, but in addition I have the faulty autopilot on my Xi5 in that it always wants to veer right. I do not have the gateway installed.

    I don’t have a gateway installed. I’m running Garmin electronics.

    FryDog62
    Posts: 3696
    #1622725

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Tim Bossert wrote:</div>
    Great post James. Curious if you had the gateway from Motorguide installed and networked to your Lowrance? I saw everything you stated, but in addition I have the faulty autopilot on my Xi5 in that it always wants to veer right. I do not have the gateway installed.

    I don’t have a gateway installed. I’m running Garmin electronics.

    My hope is that the third competitor to the TM market will be Garmin and provide a great spot-lock, follow the contour, integrated with their Panoptix Forward VU. Ok, wishful thinking —

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22539
    #1622728

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>James Holst wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Tim Bossert wrote:</div>
    Great post James. Curious if you had the gateway from Motorguide installed and networked to your Lowrance? I saw everything you stated, but in addition I have the faulty autopilot on my Xi5 in that it always wants to veer right. I do not have the gateway installed.

    I don’t have a gateway installed. I’m running Garmin electronics.

    My hope is that the third competitor to the TM market will be Garmin and provide a great spot-lock, follow the contour, integrated with their Panoptix Forward VU. Ok, wishful thinking —

    I think you could certainly see something develop between Motorguide and Garmin. Afterall, Motoguide isn’t in bed with Lowrance, just a strategic partnership. Flexibility and options are things I value highly.

    dave mcdyer
    Posts: 32
    #1622731

    Tim. A trick I learned is with autopilot when you hit the button it is using gps and works very poorly. If you press and hold the autopilot button until the circle around the n goes away it uses the internal compass and you can troll in a cross wind and it works REALLY good. Give it a try.

    gizmoguy
    Crystal,MN
    Posts: 756
    #1622733

    On the MK i-link you can set the default as to which autopilot gets used. The compass or GPS. The compass just keeps you heading in the same general direction. That’s what I like to use. The GPS plots a course along a specific line when you turn it on. And it tries to return you to that line. So if you wander off based on a current or wind it may start to drag you 90 deg. to your intended direction to return to that plotted line. I do not like the GPS version.

    mwal
    Rosemount,MN
    Posts: 1050
    #1622741

    James your description of the Spot lock is exactly what mine was like. It was unusable so I now have a foretrex cable drive . Still waiting for the perfect motor.

    Mwal

    FryDog62
    Posts: 3696
    #1622753

    I think in about 2 years someone will have the solution we’re all looking for. Right now we’re all limited to Gen1 on a lot of these items. Problem is I’m planning on buying late this year/early next… most likely new. Argh, decisions, decisions …

    MnPat1
    Posts: 371
    #1622754

    Tim. A trick I learned is with autopilot when you hit the button it is using gps and works very poorly. If you press and hold the autopilot button until the circle around the n goes away it uses the internal compass and you can troll in a cross wind and it works REALLY good. Give it a try.

    Exactly my thoughts
    Regular autopilot works great advanced autopilot not so much.
    Also when using the anchor button i let the boat drift back slowly with the wind as it seems get the boat pointed in the proper direction faster.
    This is my second terrova ipilot and works awesome just like the first one.

    Mike Martine
    Inactive
    la crosse wis
    Posts: 258
    #1622759

    Something is definatly different with the new mk spot lock . I have an older version terrova , and the spot lock works great , finds its spot and holds, love it. My brother has a new ulterra , and the spot lock on that thing is unusable , all over the place . I’m in need of a new one , but after reading this thread , not sure which way to go. Bad experiences in the past with mg are still fresh in my mind ,and if all the new mk spot locks are like my brothers , definatly a deal breaker , as that is the feature I use the most.

    Coldfront
    Posts: 23
    #1624050

    I never had this problem with my Terrova. I sold my and bought a Ulterra mainly for the deploy feature and had the same problem with spot lock. I also had a problem with the autopilot would keep slowly go off course. I contacted Minnkota and they sent me out a new head which did the same thing. I found that if you put the Ulterra in Legacy Mode it is not as bad. I just got a new WX2060 with the Ulterra installed and it does the same thing so I have put it also in legacy mode.

    Tim Bossert
    Cochrane, WI
    Posts: 429
    #1624861

    I don’t have a gateway installed. I’m running Garmin electronics.
    [/quote]

    My mistake James. For some reason I thought you had Lowrance when you were running the Xi5. I thought you made the switch to Garmin when you made the switch to the Minn Kota.

    dog2th
    Omaha, NE
    Posts: 362
    #1669499

    Mine works well also. Here’s what I do.
    Use trolling motor heading into the wind to the spot I want to fish. Hit spot lock while still moving into the wind. Spot lock takes 15 seconds to locate and correct. By that time we have drifted back to the spot and only minor corrections are required.

    If you see the motor revving up past 6 or 7 on its way to 10, and this is uncomfortable for you, cancel it and start over.

    You’ve then wasted a minute on the water. Big deal.

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