Spiral,Acid, Roberts wrapped baitcaster rods

How many here have seen or used one? And for those who build rods, how many have built one? For those of you that have never head of or seen it, Here is a description of it and the advantages:

The guide-set layout that transfers line from a conventional casting reel to the underside of the rod is commonly known as a Spiral Wrap, Roberts Wrap or Acid Wrap. It was originally designed for the Saltwater Industry over 100 years ago but recently has been adapted and refined to make its mark in the Bass Fishing Industry. This superior style of wrap is accomplished by sequentially counter-rotating the first 3 or more “transition” guides in an offsetting fashion resulting in a complete 180deg “flip” of the line path to the bottom side of the blank, similar to a spinning rod.

The advantages of a Spiral Wrap casting rod are substantial:

First, by transferring the line path to the bottom of the rod you eliminate performance damaging “torque-twist” caused by traditional “straight-set” casting guides inherently causing the tip section of the blank to twist and torque over while under the strain of hook setting and battling big fish. This not only degrades the rod blank’s natural action and power but can lead to premature failure in the upper portion of the rod under such high-stress loads. This has become a costly engineering mistake for many traditional casting rod manufacturers, especially when using today’s more light-weight but delicate high-modulus carbon fiber composites.

Additionally, a Spiral wrapped rod utilizes fewer guides spaced farther apart which not only lightens up the tip but minimizes line friction by significantly reducing “line-rub and slap” against the blank. When engineered precisely, these refinements result in a more responsive, sensitive and well-balanced blank that will cast farther, perform better and last longer than any traditional casting rod.

I am a little odd in that I fish a dropshot rig on a baitcaster. I just like the feel of a baitcaster in my hand and I hate the line twist you get with a spinning reel. About 10 years ago I decided to have a rod custom built for dropshotting. The rod builder suggested the idea of a spiral wrapped rod and explained the advantages of it to me. I decided to go ahead and give it a shot. Needless to say I really like the outcome and how it fished. When I damaged my old dropshot rod and had another one built, I did not hesitate to have another spiral wrapped one built for the purpose. They look a little different and you get a few funny looks when others see you fishing one, but they really are comfortable to fish. If you ever have a baitcaster custom built, I’d look into and try one for yourself. I think you will really like it.

I am in the process of making my first acid wrap rod. This is going to be a sturgeon rod. The acid warp will eliminate twist torque in heavy applications. If your rod is built correctly on the spline of the blank you should have minimal to no twist torque in a bass application. I am not sold on the cast farther part of using acid wraps. I feel in a well designed guide train you will have less slap in a traditional layout. You may have one less guide at the tip but will have one more guide by the butt to make the 180-degree transition. (depending on what acid wrap design you go with) Acid wraps have some advantages in some presentations and disadvantages in others.

Spiral wrapped rods do like like other rods, they fight each other when next to in the rod storage.

Built myself one for pulling bottom bouncers. Maybe not for the performance of it but for the rod twist of always having a load on the rod while fishing. Used it a bunch last week. I do like it but not convinced it was the best thing since sliced bread yet. I will say it is a bit more of a pain to slide into the rod locker tubes. Essentially you fight guides on 3 sides of the blank as you are sliding it in. I’ll deal with it because I do believe it helped overall.

Over the past 15 or so years I have built a handful for myself and used a handful of others, they are not a huge breakthrough IMO. I have nothing against them, and will continue to make and use them, just because I like the way they handle the line just a little better, and being able to pick a rod up directly from the boatdeck and the guides not grabbing every other rod on the way up.

I’ve got 4 Fenwick Techna AV flipping sticks that are my absolute favorite. Took a couple apart and rebuilt them with a spiral wrap. Side by side the performance difference is minimal if nothing.

The biggest difference I have found is using micro guides and have started to only build with them when able.

Simplify it for yourself and forget the spiral. Take your second guide and space it as normal but drop it 180 degrees to the bottom of the rod and take the rest of the guides out to the tip top guide. Then get a size 6 or 7 fly guide and put it at 90 degrees on the same side as your reel handle midway between guides one and two. It’s called a bumper guide to keep the line from rubbing on the blank. I’ve been building rods this way for 10+ years with never a problem, not a bit of casting performance lost.

The spiral/acid/roberts wrap is old school. There’s no need.

fishinfreaks wrote:

Simplify it for yourself and forget the spiral. Take your second guide and space it as normal but drop it 180 degrees to the bottom of the rod and take the rest of the guides out to the tip top guide. Then get a size 6 or 7 fly guide and put it at 90 degrees on the same side as your reel handle midway between guides one and two. It’s called a bumper guide to keep the line from rubbing on the blank. I’ve been building rods this way for 10+ years with never a problem, not a bit of casting performance lost.

The spiral/acid/roberts wrap is old school. There’s no need.

Would you have a picture of this guide layout. I’m having a little trouble picturing what you are describing.

Think of the concept guide system. Your butt guide is closest to your reel. It goes on top of the rod. The next guide goes 180 degrees from that on the bottom of the rod. The rest of the guides are all on the bottom of the rod all the way out to the tip top. Between the butt guide and the first guide on the bottom, place a fly guide at 90 degrees. It acts as a bumper to keep the line from touching the blank. Do a search for “Simple Spiral Rodbuilding”. Here’s a picture I found doing a search. I don’t use guides this heavy.

Also, read this article and search the archive that they mention:
https://www.rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,192818

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I have read about people using this simple spiral design that fishinfreaks is talking about and this is the same layout I am going to be using. It looks like any other acid wrap with different spacing in between the guides.

Looks like I am the slow typer again. The one thing I would add is you place the stripper guide just negative of 0 degrees, second at 90 degrees, and 3rd at 180 degrees. The third guide would be at the normal spot the 2nd guide is at but 180. You add a guide in-between the 1 and 2nd making the 2nd the 3rd.

Here’s my guide set up on a 7′ MHF:

Top: Size 10 Fuji K-Series Double-Foot Casting & Spinning Guides Model KW – SiC
90 Degrees: Size 7 Fuji Concept Single-Foot All-Purpose Running Guides Model L
Bottom: Size 6 Fuji Concept Single-Foot All-Purpose Running Guides Model L
Then 5,4,4,4,4,4,4
Tip Top: 4

fishinfreaks wrote:

Here’s my guide set up on a 7′ MHF:

Top: Size 10 Fuji K-Series Double-Foot Casting & Spinning Guides Model KW – SiC
90 Degrees: Size 7 Fuji Concept Single-Foot All-Purpose Running Guides Model L
Bottom: Size 6 Fuji Concept Single-Foot All-Purpose Running Guides Model L
Then 5,4,4,4,4,4,4
Tip Top: 4

That sounds about the same as was used on my recent custom rod build. The only thing I may do different if I ever have to have a new one built is to not complete the wrap to the bottom until the 4th eye instead of on the 3rd. I feel like the idea of a slower transition to the bottom position would have a limited value to the setup. I didn’t even think to discuss this when I had it built. My buddy who did the build just used the original spacing and offset as was on the original one.

fishthumper wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>fishinfreaks wrote:</div>
Here’s my guide set up on a 7′ MHF:

Top: Size 10 Fuji K-Series Double-Foot Casting & Spinning Guides Model KW – SiC
90 Degrees: Size 7 Fuji Concept Single-Foot All-Purpose Running Guides Model L
Bottom: Size 6 Fuji Concept Single-Foot All-Purpose Running Guides Model L
Then 5,4,4,4,4,4,4
Tip Top: 4

That sounds about the same as was used on my recent custom rod build. The only thing I may do different if I ever have to have a new one built is to not complete the wrap to the bottom until the 4th eye instead of on the 3rd. I feel like the idea of a slower transition to the bottom position would have a limited value to the setup. I didn’t even think to discuss this when I had it built. My buddy who did the build just used the original spacing and offset as was on the original one.

Can you clarify what you mean by having a limited value if you spiraled to the 4th guide instead of the 3rd?

I will say this – the idea of this “simple spiral” is certainly not mine. This was the idea of some of the best minds in the custom rod world 15+ years ago with much static and cast testing done with zero negative affects.

You also want to have it roll under opposite of the side you reel on.

fishinfreaks wrote:

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Can you clarify what you mean by having a limited value if you spiraled to the 4th guide instead of the 3rd?

I will say this – the idea of this “simple spiral” is certainly not mine. This was the idea of some of the best minds in the custom rod world 15+ years ago with much static and cast testing done with zero negative affects.

Keep in mind that I’m not a rod builder. I just feel like completing the transition from the top to the bottom in a slightly slower manor would help aid in less chance of line laying or rubbing along the rod blank itself. After all isn’t this one of the primary reason for the wrapped design in the first place. Like I said I’m not a rod builder and may be totally wrong about this. I know when the builder built my first wrapped rod he said there was a lot of different opinion’s of what the best # of eyes to use to complete the transition. I’d guess some of it may depend on the overall rod length as well. My rod was built on a 7″3″ blank.