So MN DNR is looking for input on Mille Lac Smallmouth

  • kevin gross
    Posts: 12
    #1879783

    Personally I would keep every bass and snot rocket I could. Get them out of the lake!! Mille lacs should first and foremost be a walleye lake. We have WAY to many predators in the lake. The perch and way down as are tulibee and lake shiners. the forage base is gone. Now with the clearer water it favors predators. Back when I stared fishing the big pond in 1974 it was very rare to hear of a smallie being caught. It was not where or how we were fishing there just was not many smallies back then nor muskies. Snot rockets were not nearly as prolific as they are now either.

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1879786

    Well it’s apparent that many comments on this thread are not without bias. However, it’s my opinion that those who offer an opinion should not be attacked for offering such because you don’t like it or don’t agree with it.

    Furthermore, there have been some comments that seem to be presented as facts when in fact they are just plain false or perhaps misinformed opinions? Blaming warming water or clear water in Mille Lacs affecting the walleye population? Walleye thrive in many other waters that are clear and/or have warmer average temps.

    SMB not competing with walleyes for forage? You cannot just observe the adult population, they compete at various life stages particularly as newly hatched or YOY or just smaller fish. In other words baby bass don’t just limit themselves to eating baby crayfish, everything is up for grabs at an earlier stage in their life.

    How this all truly affects the populations in Mille Lacs…who really know for sure?

    I recommend anyone following this thread to take a minute and read the article I have linked. Yes, it is written by a columnist so I suppose one could interpret it all as just another opinion but I do see where the author Shawn Perich does share some real experiences that are very telling and relevant to this discussion.

    bass

    BTW, ignore my other failed post…lol

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1879787

    Is Minnesota becoming infested with smallmouth bass?

    fishthumper
    Sartell, MN.
    Posts: 12061
    #1879789

    Just an observation guys-I haven’t seen anyone say they want people to harvest all SMB or trophy SMB. I think most people support some type of protected slots on SMB and Walleyes.

    Just comments about using SM bass to fertilize tomato plants and sticking a knife into every SM that they and their clients catch.

    Don’t say that No one has ever said statements like those. I have personally heard it from more than a few different so called fishermen on Mille Lac’s

    kevin gross
    Posts: 12
    #1879792

    I don’t support those statements but I am not very far from it. I would not waste fish but am all for harvesting all the smb and snot rockets possible! time to clean out the unwanted predators in the big pond!

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16768
    #1879793

    Personally I would keep every bass and snot rocket I could. Get them out of the lake!! Mille lacs should first and foremost be a walleye lake. We have WAY to many predators in the lake. The perch and way down as are tulibee and lake shiners. the forage base is gone. Now with the clearer water it favors predators. Back when I stared fishing the big pond in 1974 it was very rare to hear of a smallie being caught. It was not where or how we were fishing there just was not many smallies back then nor muskies. Snot rockets were not nearly as prolific as they are now either.

    In 1974 it was not referred to as a walleye factory or the big pond. It was known statewide as the dead sea.

    kevin gross
    Posts: 12
    #1879801

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>kevin gross wrote:</div>
    Personally I would keep every bass and snot rocket I could. Get them out of the lake!! Mille lacs should first and foremost be a walleye lake. We have WAY to many predators in the lake. The perch and way down as are tulibee and lake shiners. the forage base is gone. Now with the clearer water it favors predators. Back when I stared fishing the big pond in 1974 it was very rare to hear of a smallie being caught. It was not where or how we were fishing there just was not many smallies back then nor muskies. Snot rockets were not nearly as prolific as they are now either.

    In 1974 it was not referred to as a walleye factory or the big pond. It was known statewide as the dead sea.

    It was good fishing back then!!! When did you start fishing the lake? You have to remember that back in 1974 depth finders were a great idea but no one had them yet. Now its gps. Lots of walleye back then Dutchboy!!

    gimruis
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17792
    #1879802

    Just comments about using SM bass to fertilize tomato plants and sticking a knife into every SM that they and their clients catch.

    Don’t say that No one has ever said statements like those. I have personally heard it from more than a few different so called fishermen on Mille Lac’s

    These were the comments that burned me up too. Just because you don’t like a particular fish, doesn’t mean you put a filet knife to their throat. I can’t stand 20 inch snot rockets but that doesn’t mean I’m going to start throwing them on shore for the birds. Here is an article about a walleye tagging study going on and some early results they have found.

    https://www.jamestownsun.com/sports/outdoors/4666037-First-Mille-Lacs-walleye-tracking-study-begins-to-provide-data-no-answers-yet

    Smoker
    Blaine, Minnesota
    Posts: 85
    #1879817

    I don’t understand how anyone with any real-life experience can say Mille lacs is over-populated with northerns. Many lakes are but Mille lacs isn’t. I’ve had a place in wahkon bay for the last 19 yrs and the northern fishing is nowhere as good as it was before spearing and the liberal limits.

    philtickelson
    Inactive
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 1678
    #1879819

    Interesting discussion, but I want to point out one thing. Many people talking about walleye anglers opinions vs. bass angler opinions vs. DNR vs. ‘financially invested’ individuals, etc.

    Just curious, how does this compare to previous conversations about lakeshore owners trying to ‘seize control’ of other lakes by blocking public access using invasive species as a reason? Or trying to get rid of muskies? I think I’ve seen those topics come up on here.

    Who makes the ultimate decision on management and who’s opinion matters? Who’s should? Does being a lakeshore owner give you any more ‘right’ than anyone else?

    Genuinely curious, usually it’s just whoever lobbies the most($$$) that ACTUALLY matters. But given how outspoken a lot of us are here about keeping public waters PUBLIC, makes an interesting contrast.

    blank
    Posts: 1786
    #1879823

    You bring up a good point, Phil. And it’s one that’s puzzled me a bit too. The “financially invested” individuals get mentioned fairly often with these Mille Lacs discussions and I too can’t help but think of the other topics discussed on this site regarding lake shore associations and such. I think the difference is people view Mille Lacs as a blue collar type of lake, rather than a lake for just the rich folks.

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16768
    #1879874

    Welcome back Andy.

    Jon Jordan
    Keymaster
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 6045
    #1879903

    Been away from a keyboard for a long weekend at the pond. I can’t type with my thumbs on my phone for more than a few words!

    Why bother?

    I thought I’d get more crap for my first reply. Here is more input as to why I posted the reply. I’ll quote Steve Fellegy in the use of the term “The Minnesota DNR speaks with a forked tongue.” The idea that they hold a SMB “support” meeting days after closing the lake to walleye fishing is insulting. Even worse is the fact they told us the lake would stay open 2 weeks prior. Pissed is an understatement. They should be up there holding meetings explaining what the heck happened and how they plan to fix it. Until there is a open walleye season with a season long harvest limit, SMB concerns should be on the back burner. There is no need for special regs on Milly for SMB. Go to statewide regs. The DNR should at least consider the possibility that the special regs have had a serious negative impact on the walleye population.

    Phil (gonefishn) you’re right. I took the topic off course and I apologize. (To you and Buzz. ) Buzz clearly asked for “Constructive” comments for the DNR meeting. I hope I can still call you my friend!

    -J.

    Jon Jordan
    Keymaster
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 6045
    #1879906

    In case you don’t like clicking on page links. From Andy’s post.

    I could not agree more more with this column. Especially how it relates to Mille Lacs.

    Is Minnesota becoming infested with smallmouth bass?

    by Shawn Perich February 3, 2017

    Last week, Outdoor News columnist Joe Fellegy reported on a topic that begs for more attention: the sudden surge in smallmouth bass numbers across northern Minnesota. He interviewed a number of seasoned anglers who agreed that smallmouth bass have become abundant in many waters where they were once uncommon or nonexistent. Fellegy writes that although fisheries biologists and anglers are aware of the sudden proliferation of smallmouths, fish managers haven’t yet responded to this significant shift in the state’s fisheries.

    Imagine if Asian carp suddenly appeared in northern Minnesota waters. No doubt there would be swift and wide-reaching management response. The smallmouth bass surge is a similar invasion of new waters and may lead to undesirable changes in existing fish populations. A biologist friend once told me a productive walleye lake can “flip to bass,” meaning smallmouth become the predominate predator. Most Minnesota walleye anglers view such an occurrence as a bad thing.

    Traditionally, Minnesota Nice did not apply to smallmouth bass. They were underappreciated or flat out despised, especially in the north, where they had been introduced to many lakes during the first half of the 20th Century. Bass had strikes against them: they often overran waters where they were introduced and became stunted, their introduction often decreased numbers of desirable fish such as lake trout and walleyes, and they were considered less palatable walleyes.

    The smallmouth’s primary claim to fame is that it has long been considered a premiere sport fish by some anglers. In Minnesota, smallmouths had a cult following among anglers and, by and large, they still do. Minnesota remains a walleye state. That said, smallmouth advocates have pressed for special regulations largely intended to protect the size structure of smallmouth populations in specific waters. Large smallmouths are susceptible to overharvest. Special regulations have allowed the development of trophy smallmouth fisheries in places like Mille Lacs and the Mississippi River.

    In the cold, infertile lakes of northeastern Minnesota, a different strategy has been used in lakes infested with runt bass. All smallmouth over 12 inches must be released, although anglers are allowed to keep one trophy topping 20 inches. Bass grow slowly in these lakes, so the point of the management strategy is to trim off small fish and allow the large ones to survive, thus improving the size structure of the population.

    My own experience with smallmouth bass in recent years seems to echo that of the anglers Fellegy interviewed. First, my favorite walleye lake flipped to bass. The last time I went fishing there, two years ago, I caught identical, eight-inch smallmouths on every cast. When I started searching for a new go-to lake for walleyes, I was surprised at how common bass had become. Most telling was a short trip into the Boundary Waters to a lake that used to consistently offer up stringers of honest two- to four-pound walleyes. I went there with friends twice in one summer, both times on evenings that seemed perfect for walleye fishing. Instead, we caught bass; lots and lots of bass. Pulling up on reefs and humps that traditionally were walleye havens, we’d mark schools of fish that turned out to be bass. On both trips, we agreed that we didn’t even have a bite from a walleye.

    On the other hand, I enjoy occasionally fly-fishing for smallmouth bass. I’ve experienced good fishing on waters with special regulations in place, notably the Mississippi River upstream from the Twin Cities and Two Island Lake near Grand Marais. In recent years, I’ve caught some pretty nice bass while pursuing other species. Generally, I release the big ones.

    However, I kill most of the bass I catch, especially in lakes where they are becoming more abundant. If they are big enough to filet, say the size of a keeper crappie, they come home with me. My efforts won’t rid a lake of bass, but maybe, in a small way, they’ll help slow their proliferation. While I don’t mind eating them, they are not as tasty as walleye. An old-timer told me you can improve their flavor by fileting them immediately—before you head home from the lake. I’ve yet to do so.

    Like many anglers in my corner of the state, I’m usually not thrilled to reel up a smallmouth. I’m dismayed to catch them when I’m after walleyes or trout. While bass can coexist with the latter species, most often a lake is better off without them. Over the years, I’ve watched them appear and proliferate in some of my favorite fishing lakes. Never has their presence improved the fishing. Bass are aggressive, voracious eaters that can compete with other species at various life stages.

    There is a place for smallmouth bass in Minnesota’s waterways, but not in every river, every lake. While their rapid expansion in state waters is likely the result of a natural phenomenon, (dare we say a warming climate?), we should expect fish managers to do their best to explain why it is happening and what it may mean for the future of our fisheries. And if we have any means to manage these new bass infestations, perhaps we should get to work. During the past 20 years, we’ve learned how to protect trophy-sized bass and how to address populations overrun with runts. Maybe now we need to learn how to keep the bass population in check.

    We already started going this direction with northern pike management. Regulations have been developed for some lakes with high bag limits for super-abundant hammer handle northerns. Maybe a similar strategy is needed for smallmouth bass. It may actually be easier to persuade at least some anglers to keep undersized bass, because they are not as bony as pike. Since they are members of the sunfish family, anglers might view them as just another panfish.

    None of the anglers interviewed by Fellegy mentioned whether the expanding bass populations have affected their walleye fishing success. However, there have been complaints in the past that special regulations intended to protect smallmouth bass have led to declines in walleye abundance in specific lakes. Perhaps more research is needed on this topic. After all, the walleye is Minnesota’s most popular game fish. A vast majority of the state’s anglers would like it to remain that way.

    Shawn is a veteran writer and editor well-known for his many books and outdoor stories. A native of Duluth and longtime North Shore resident, he’s spent a lifetime roaming the Northern Wilds and is eager to share what he knows with readers.

    Jon Jordan
    Keymaster
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 6045
    #1879908

    The bass primarily eat crayfish and they don’t hardly eat anything for half the year because it’s too cold.

    I can stand on my dock in the spring and watch SMB in my harbor eating YOY perch by the 1000’s. They will clean out the entire area. These are perch that never make it to the lake.

    And tell me how they don’t eat perch, or any other small fish when we catch then on shad raps all year long?

    -J.

    Jon Jordan
    Keymaster
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 6045
    #1879913

    Good read from this week’s Mille Lacs Messenger. Gotta agree with a lot of comments. This walleye lake needs to be managed for walleye!

    https://www.messagemedia.co/millelacs/outdoors/walleye-regulations-take-another-hit-on-mille-lacs-economy-part/article_fd85b578-d3d5-11e9-a283-8ff9c2ed3855.html

    Walleye regulations take another hit on Mille Lacs economy, Part I
    by T.A. LeBrun [email protected] Sep 13, 2019
    Mille Lacs Lake dock

    Lake is healthy and locals question DNR policy

    As owner of McQuoid’s Inn, Tim Potoczny discusses how the recent DNR walleye fishing closure on Sept. 6 has affected his resort and launch service, another customer calls in wanting to cancel their launch.

    advertisement
    “We’re getting cancellations. We’ve been able to talk most of them out of it, but what stresses me out as an owner is … [the DNR needs to] make a plan and stick to it.” Potoczny says.

    Potoczny’s frustrations are resonating around the lake as other resort owners and fishing guides are approached and respond. They want the public to know that the lake is not in peril. That the walleye closure is not for biological reasons and those most familiar with the lake know it’s teeming with walleye.

    They also want the public to know that the fishing is amazing with trophy fish–muskie, bass and pike–out in the waters of the Big Pond just waiting to be hooked. They want people to know there is more to the lake than walleye–kayaking, recreational boating, lodging with breathtaking views, great dining, camping, sandy swimming beaches, fall colors, golfing, snowmobiling, four-wheeling, and much more.

    With the economy flourishing overall and helping them rebound, resort owners and guides wonder what could have been had regulations not been as stringent regarding walleye fishing.

    What are resort owners

    and guides saying?

    Editor’s note: It’s been no secret that the state of walleye fishing has hurt the Mille Lacs Lake economy in recent years. The Messenger surveyed Mille Lacs Lake resort owners and guide services with a large number of them responding. While we understand that other businesses have been affected as well, for the purpose of narrowing content, this story focuses on resorts and fishing guides.

    This is what they had to say.

    Island View Resort in Wahkon owner Tim Pater says, “Normally our boat and pontoon rentals are walleye fishermen, and I have had some cancellations on boats and pontoons. Reservations are not coming in quite as much as they had been in the past, and we will most certainly be down some, mostly with pontoon rentals and cabin rentals. We’re just hoping to have a good perch bite this fall and generate some interest in Mille Lacs again and fall fishing in light of the walleye being closed.”

    Chuck Appeldoorn, owner of Appeldoorn’s Sunset Bay Resort and Fiddlestix RV & Resort in Isle, says the management of the lake has been devastating. “It’s the uncertainty and lack of knowing that makes operating a business next to impossible,” he says. “You try to stay positive and keep believing if you hang in there, next year will be the breakthrough and will eventually cover your losses. But as year after year passes, you have to wonder if it’s more political than anything else. Fishing guides and the locals tell you there have never been so many walleyes, yet ‘the professionals’ seem to claim the walleye are about to go extinct.”

    Appeldoorn says they have had to change their business model from a fishing resort to a family fun destination and wedding resort in an effort to diversify to survive. “However, with a much smaller fraction of the Mille Lacs guests now choosing other destinations, business marketing and promotions efforts are beginning to seem for naught. We personally had to close a restaurant and a patio pub and change the direction of a local golf course,” he adds. “we do plan to keep fighting and believe in this area and are now focusing on other amenities and attractions to help promote the Mille Lacs in a positive light.”

    Tina Chapman of Chapman’s Mille Lacs Resort in Isle says one of the biggest challenges is uncertainty. “Unhappiness lies in the fact that we know it’s not a biological decision, and I understand they (DNR) don’t want to break the agreement that they have,” she says. “It’s hard to know because you don’t know who’s not calling. I had one call wondering if they could fish and wanted to cancel. I talked them into staying and told them they could fish for bass.”

    As a resort owner, she says she knows fishing is the main draw. “That’s why they come–for the fishing. I have lost quite a few customers who want to keep a fish but many who were happy with catch and release. We had a customer who has been coming here for 17 years, and they can’t even have a shore lunch. That’s a frustrating part,” she says.

    Kevin McQuoid of Mac’s Twin Bay Resort says part of the negative impact has been the perception of more turmoil on the lake. The lake is not in turmoil, he adds, meaning–there are a lot of fish.

    “We’ll all still have our doors open and make enough to keep the doors open but not enough to make a profit,” McQuoid says. “I don’t have any lodging, so it doesn’t hurt me as much. It’s more last minute people coming up fishing. We’ll miss out on the guide trips, and it will hurt the bar and restaurant.”

    Steve Johnson, owner of Johnson’s Portside in Isle (a convenience store, bait shop, liquor store and event grounds) and member of Mille Lacs Fishery Advisory Committee, says the perception of a closure would usually involve a decimated fish population. “In reality, this economy/lake was closed because of a flawed quota co-management system,” says Johnson. “We have a healthy fishery up here that is teeming with walleye and other sport species–smallmouth, muskie and northern. There’s nothing that compares to this lake; we have big fish and lots of them. There are trophy sized fish in all the species.”

    David Estrem, general manager of Hunters Winfield Resort in Isle, also expresses his displeasure with the politics of the lake. “The lake is not in trouble, and it (the closure) has nothing to do with biology,” he says. Estrem said he sent a letter to the Governor saying he and the DNR need to figure this out. “What hurts us is when you can’t specifically target them (walleye). People like to catch them even if they can’t keep them because the fish in this lake are bigger than most lakes. There aren’t many lakes that can produce what Mille Lacs does.” Overall, he says the policy has decreased their business by two-thirds, but that this year was better because anglers could keep a fish in the spring and still fish them over the summer.

    Patrick Burch of Burch’s Guide Service, who mainly guides out of Terry’s Boat Harbor, concurs.

    “Obviously, it has had a big impact,” says Burch. “Before the tight restrictions and closures, I would average around 75 guide trips per summer; that number plummeted down into the 15-20 trips per year range for those first few restrictive years.”

    But Burch adds that for him as a fishing guide, things have gotten better and is thankful the walleye fishing was closed at the end of the summer rather than mid summer as it had been in the past.

    “The last two summers have been very good,” adds Burch. “This year, I was back up into the 75 guide trips for the summer range again. I attribute it to the fact that fishing is so good and people from the cities want to come up because they just love catching big fish and have a legit chance of catching a fish of their lifetime.”

    Tim Ajax, of Lake Mille Lacs Guide Service, says, “The walleyes are fat, happy and plentiful all around the lake, but the recent DNR co-managed policy has once again scared away an enormous number of anglers for the next couple months or until ice out. My bookings for walleye trips have halted altogether. The entire Mille Lacs community will again feel the negative impacts of closure and constant changes in the strict regulations for walleye angling.”

    He adds, “Resorts, restaurants, bait shops, stores, hotels, launches, deckhands, cooks, schools, farmers, guides, teachers, housekeepers, bartenders, property owners, and everyone else loses revenue. Basically, many people lose their jobs or get their hours reduced dramatically because of government. Also, keep in mind how many businesses around the lake have gone bankrupt or just could not keep the doors open anymore in the last five to seven years.”

    On a positive note, Ajax is grateful his open water guiding business has been doing okay but not good, he says. He adds that business has been better “in years past before all the crazy no walleye in the lake gossip.” He attributes staying “somewhat busy” to being a multi-species guide and working well to maintain positive relationships with resorts and other guides around the lake. “If I focused on only walleye, I would not be guiding anymore,” he says. “Overall, walleye fishing has decreased for all business owners and has impacted so many people in a negative way the last several seasons.”

    Next week, part two of this story will look at why people want to come to Mille Lacs Lake, what the DNR has to say in response, and what local resort and fishing guide services would like to see from the DNR moving forward.

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1879927

    In case you don’t like clicking on page links. From Andy’s post.

    I could not agree more more with this column. Especially how it relates to Mille Lacs.

    Is Minnesota becoming infested with smallmouth bass?

    by Shawn Perich February 3, 2017

    Thanks for posting the full content of this article Jon.

    I thought it was relevant to this topic specifically the quote “A biologist friend once told me a productive walleye lake can “flip to bass,” meaning smallmouth become the predominate predator”

    I believe we’re witnessing this happen on Mille Lacs.

    And also, BTW…part 2 of the Messenger article was in today’s printed/paper edition which have but I could not find the link for from their website?? lol

    Stay tuned though…

    Attachments:
    1. wally-finn.jpg

    gimruis
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17792
    #1879950

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gimruis wrote:</div>
    The bass primarily eat crayfish and they don’t hardly eat anything for half the year because it’s too cold.

    I can stand on my dock in the spring and watch SMB in my harbor eating YOY <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>perch by the 1000’s. They will clean out the entire area. These are <em class=”ido-tag-em”>perch that never make it to the lake.

    And tell me how they don’t eat perch, or any other small fish when we catch then on shad raps all year long?

    -J.

    Stomach contest studies have shown that a smallmouth’s diet consists of up to 80% crayfish (in the Great Lakes, they mostly eat gobies). Would they eat a young perch given the chance? Of course they would. They’re predators. They take advantage of that when its available. But predominantly the science has shown that they prefer crayfish and seek them out as their primary food source. Ever wonder why all the smallmouth photos are fat and healthy looking fish and all the walleyes are skinny and unhealthy looking? That’s because the bass eat abundant crayfish and walleyes don’t have enough perch to eat (so they eat each other). This argument is like blaming the muskies for eating the walleyes. Its nothing but uneducated guessing.

    I agree with your assessment on the DNR suddenly closing it. That was kind of a back stab only 2 weeks after they said it would almost certainly stay open until December. Businesses hear the first part and then start planning fall events related to walleye fishing and then out of the blue the DNR shuts it down. Total lack of preparation on their part.

    sticker
    StillwaterMN/Ottertail county
    Posts: 4418
    #1879953

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Jon Jordan wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gimruis wrote:</div>
    The bass primarily eat crayfish and they don’t hardly eat anything for half the year because it’s too cold.

    I can stand on my dock in the spring and watch SMB in my harbor eating YOY <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>perch by the 1000’s. They will clean out the entire area. These are <em class=”ido-tag-em”>perch that never make it to the lake.

    And tell me how they don’t eat perch, or any other small fish when we catch then on shad raps all year long?

    -J.

    Stomach contest studies have shown that a smallmouth’s diet consists of up to 80% crayfish (in the Great Lakes, they mostly eat gobies). Would they eat a young perch given the chance? Of course they would. They’re predators. They take advantage of that when its available. But predominantly the science has shown that they prefer crayfish and seek them out as their primary food source. Ever wonder why all the smallmouth photos are fat and healthy looking fish and all the walleyes are skinny and unhealthy looking? That’s because the bass eat abundant crayfish and walleyes don’t have enough perch to eat (so they eat each other). This argument is like blaming the muskies for eating the walleyes. Its nothing but uneducated guessing.

    I agree with your assessment on the DNR suddenly closing it. That was kind of a back stab only 2 weeks after they said it would almost certainly stay open until December. Businesses hear the first part and then start planning fall events related to walleye fishing and then out of the blue the DNR shuts it down. Total lack of preparation on their part.

    So you are saying walleyes don’t eat crayfish? Are you freaking serious???? They are both predators and they both eat the same thing. They compete for food on a daily basis. SM are just more aggressive. Your argument is complete bogus!

    BigWerm
    SW Metro
    Posts: 11875
    #1879962

    Ever wonder why all the smallmouth photos are fat and healthy looking fish and all the walleyes are skinny and unhealthy looking?

    This is another of the most irritating BS statements on Mille Lacs. The walleyes were skinny about 10 years ago, that is not and has not been an issue for years. And Gimruis it’s ridiculous to imply they don’t eat the same thing, including perch for SM and crayfish for walleye. That is why anytime you fish either species, you have incidental catches of the other. I was up this weekend and we caught about 30 smallmouth and 10 eyes…on sucker minnows.

    blank
    Posts: 1786
    #1879963

    http://www.twincities.com/2014/06/14/on-mille-lacs-whos-eating-who/

    The last paragraph is significant.

    SMALLMOUTH BASS
    Crayfish, crayfish, crayfish.

    “Smallmouth were the easiest to figure out,” Parsons said. “The diet that was observed was dominated by crayfish — significantly more than half in the summer. In the fall, they ate a few more fish. Smallmouth really don’t eat a lot of fish, but if they do eat them, they’ll generally eat yellow perch, and occasionally bluegill, crappie, darters and shiners. The proportion of walleye they eat is very small.”

    Not enough smallmouth were collected in the fall to glean any useful data.

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1879974

    Stomach contest studies have shown that a smallmouth’s diet consists of up to 80% crayfish (in the Great Lakes, they mostly eat gobies). Would they eat a young perch given the chance? Of course they would. They’re predators. They take advantage of that when its available. But predominantly the science has shown that they prefer crayfish and seek them out as their primary food source. Ever wonder why all the smallmouth photos are fat and healthy looking fish and all the walleyes are skinny and unhealthy looking? That’s because the bass eat abundant crayfish and walleyes don’t have enough perch to eat (so they eat each other). This argument is like blaming the muskies for eating the walleyes. Its nothing but uneducated guessing.

    Again, you’re completely ignoring the whole picture (or life cycle) so I’ll repeat…”You cannot just observe the adult population, they compete at various life stages particularly as newly hatched or YOY or just smaller fish. In other words baby bass don’t just limit themselves to eating baby crayfish, everything is up for grabs at an earlier stage in their life.”

    New hatched bass and YOY bass are not eating crayfish. They are eating (competing) for the same forage as YOY walleyes. This is where the balance has tipped in favor of bass. They are proliferating out there, and what little can be agreed on by the DNR, tribal DNR, fish biologists is that not enough young walleyes are surviving to adulthood.

    I don’t know… crazy

    gimruis
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17792
    #1879983

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gimruis wrote:</div>
    Ever wonder why all the smallmouth photos are fat and healthy looking fish and all the walleyes are skinny and unhealthy looking?

    This is another of the most irritating BS statements on Mille Lacs. The walleyes were skinny about 10 years ago, that is not and has not been an issue for years. And Gimruis it’s ridiculous to imply they don’t eat the same thing, including perch for SM and crayfish for walleye. That is why anytime you fish either species, you have incidental catches of the other. I was up this weekend and we caught about 30 smallmouth and 10 eyes…on sucker minnows.

    I didn’t say they don’t eat the same forage. I only said that smallmouth PREFER crayfish and walleyes PREFER perch/other fish. They obviously both eat the other given the chance. Predators do that.

    The walleyes ARE skinny. Anyone with a set of eye balls comparing them to fish from other big lakes can see that they are significantly skinnier. And almost every bass angler out there will admit that they caught a lot more walleyes “by accident” when targeting bass this season. Heck, there was even a go-angling episode of it and the guy in the front couldn’t keep em off. I think it was McSharry and Hawthorne.

    kevin gross
    Posts: 12
    #1880048

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gimruis wrote:</div>
    The bass primarily eat crayfish and they don’t hardly eat anything for half the year because it’s too cold.

    I can stand on my dock in the spring and watch SMB in my harbor eating YOY <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>perch by the 1000’s. They will clean out the entire area. These are <em class=”ido-tag-em”>perch that never make it to the lake.

    And tell me how they don’t eat perch, or any other small fish when we catch then on shad raps all year long?

    -J.

    You are spot on! they do yet people try and tell us they don’t. I would be happy if they killed off most of the SMB in Mille Lacs.

    john23
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 2582
    #1880101

    Is the lake teeming with fish and now closed because of a flawed quota structure? Or is the walleye population down because of bass? Or is it the native netting? Or anglers keeping them?

    I suppose I’m a believer that the walleye population is in a good place, but who knows. What I do know is that the fishing has been incredible for both bass and walleyes every time I’ve been on ML in the past few years. I believe the resort owners are right when they say that there are tons of big fish of every species in the lake right now.

    gimruis
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17792
    #1880170

    Per the DNR’s population estimate:

    walleye 727,000 adults
    smallmouth bass 67,000 adults
    muskellunge 3300 adults
    northern pike not estimated but considered “robust”

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