So Long Katrina

  • Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1937119

    Full Report Here

    “Impacts of the Tentatively Selected Plan – During construction of the TSP there would be minor adverse effects to aquatic habitat, mostly due to sediment resuspension. There would also be a long-term reduction in available aquatic habitat as a result of constructing about 50 acres of peninsulas and mudflat.

    As discussed in Section3.6.4,there would be a negligible impact to aquatic habitat in Lake Pepin as a result of redirecting sediment loading from some of the project area downstream to Lake Pepin.

    One area currently providing quality aquatic habitat is the Catherine Cut. That sidechannel contains large woody debris, water depths, and flows that provide habitat for riverine fish species.

    Under the TSP,an access channel would be dredged through the cut to allow efficient barge access for construction equipment and materials to the project area. This dredging and disturbance would change the habitat conditions in the cut. When the project is complete though, the flows through the cut should approximate the existing conditions, and deeper areas may still provid equality habitat for riverine species. Large woody debris would also likely

    continue to be trapped in the deeper areas to provide similar habitat to what is there now. So while project construction would have adverse effect on this side channel in the short-term, the long term effects are unknown and may or may not be adverse.

    In total and in the long term, the project features are designed to benefit aquatic habitat; therefore, there would be substantial long-term beneficial effects to the remaining 595 acres of aquatic habitat evaluated (see Appendix D – Habitat Evaluation and Quantification).”

    10. Review and Comment. If you have any comments on the environmental assessment they should be provided before the expiration date of this notice. Persons submitting comments are advised that all comments received will be available for public review, to include the possibility of posting on a public website. Questions on the project or comments on the Environmental Assessment can be directed to Steve Clark, project biologist at (651) 290-5278 or at [email protected]. Please address all formal written correspondence on this project to District Commander, St. Paul District, Corps of Engineers, ATTN: Regional Planning and Environment Division North, 180 Fifth Street East, Suite 700, St. Paul, Minnesota 55101-1600.

    Your $24,000,000.00 at work.

    Jesse Krook
    Y.M.H.
    Posts: 6403
    #1937178

    Is it just mean or does anyone else see this as a “pass the problem on” kind of resolution? So now instead of the head of the lake filling in, mid lake will fill in. I’m guessing Maiden Rock and Frontenac will be the next areas the sediment lays to rest filling in the slack water areas in that region. Then on to Hok-si-La and Lake City…

    Bummer they don’t address the problem where it originates.

    river rat randy
    Hager City WI
    Posts: 1736
    #1937312

    Bummer they don’t address the problem where it originates.
    [/quote]

    Is it just mean or does anyone else see this as a “pass the problem on” kind of resolution? So now instead of the head of the lake filling in, mid lake will fill in. I’m guessing Maiden Rock and Frontenac will be the next areas the sediment lays to rest filling in the slack water areas in that region. Then on to Hok-si-La and Lake City…

    Bummer they don’t address the problem where it originates.

    Ever hear of BIG AG.?

    buckybadger
    Upper Midwest
    Posts: 8175
    #1937316

    Bummer they don’t address the problem where it originates.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Jesse Krook wrote:</div>
    Is it just mean or does anyone else see this as a “pass the problem on” kind of resolution? So now instead of the head of the lake filling in, mid lake will fill in. I’m guessing Maiden Rock and Frontenac will be the next areas the sediment lays to rest filling in the slack water areas in that region. Then on to Hok-si-La and Lake City…

    Bummer they don’t address the problem where it originates.

    Ever hear of BIG AG.?
    [/quote]

    Nailed it. There’s got to be some moves done at the legislative level within the state (and enforcement). Some of the aerial views showing the Minnesota and Mississippi Rivers 10-12 hours after a heavy rain are enough to make anyone sick.

    This does not fix the issue whatsoever. I hate this idea. We finally had started to generate awareness to the sedimentation issues and now kicking it further downriver/lake will essentially just damage a different part of Pool 4. As an fyi to some who may not realize, there are some extremely valuable spawning areas in the middle/upper portions of the lake for a lot of fish, including walleye. The Rush River and surrounding area near Maiden Rock will suffer from this over time.

    Cody Meyers
    Posts: 430
    #1937392

    I think that drain tile is one of the more destructive things we’ve done for water quality or just the environment in general. I’m also not a farmer, so it’s easy for me to pick a side. I know people got to make a living…but I’d rather see this money go to paying farmers to remove drain tile and restore wetlands.

    Anybody need this soap box?

    FishBlood&RiverMud
    Prescott
    Posts: 6687
    #1937397

    Ag is big money boys. What your asking is basically to turn back time. In that time, tile has increased. A Lot. Opening a lot of farm land. Creating a lot of revenue. Billions and Billions of revenue.

    Buy some land, you’ll find the payback period is quite long!!! Go ahead and make a buffer. Go ahead and plug your tile lines. That’d be a charity, not a profitable business.

    I hear ya. I’m just being realistic here. Dirt in the water. Changing fishery. Impacting ecosystem. Then i weigh that impact vs the impact of the tile lines…And i’m afraid that the impact to the river is a squirt of urine in a bucket compared to the revenue created through better land management in regards to agriculture.

    I don’t see this as much different than the corona virus. We’ve reacted to save lives and impacted economy in a major way. I think what is being asked here is about the same scale. Improve lake pepin and impact every farmer in the river basin negatively. Except here the difference isn’t human lives, it’s fish. I’m not surprised. Not at all.

    Even today, land is a worst investment that putting money in the market. I’m amazed at the payback period of owning land, whether you own and farm or rent. It is crazy. Ya’ll want to extend that payback period? Not likely anyone is to volunteer for that.

    We’ve got farm land along the Des Moines. Floods out every spring. My uncle rents it. State finally offered him a deal he couldn’t pass up and now a bunch of it is in 10yr. Things are happening…But not corona virus shutting down the economy in 20 days fast. But changes are happening in ag.

    Where i grew up, used to be the most swamp land in mn. We drained it! Then Farmed it. Then drained it better. This has been happening since horses pulled plows.

    Matt Moen
    South Minneapolis
    Posts: 4276
    #1937443

    Ag is big money boys. What your asking is basically to turn back time. In that time, tile has increased. A Lot. Opening a lot of farm land. Creating a lot of revenue. Billions and Billions of revenue.

    Buy some land, you’ll find the payback period is quite long!!! Go ahead and make a buffer. Go ahead and plug your tile lines. That’d be a charity, not a profitable business.

    I hear ya. I’m just being realistic here. Dirt in the water. Changing fishery. Impacting ecosystem. Then i weigh that impact vs the impact of the tile lines…And i’m afraid that the impact to the river is a squirt of urine in a bucket compared to the revenue created through better land management in regards to agriculture.

    I don’t see this as much different than the corona virus. We’ve reacted to save lives and impacted economy in a major way. I think what is being asked here is about the same scale. Improve lake pepin and impact every farmer in the river basin negatively. Except here the difference isn’t human lives, it’s fish. I’m not surprised. Not at all.

    Even today, land is a worst investment that putting money in the market. I’m amazed at the payback period of owning land, whether you own and farm or rent. It is crazy. Ya’ll want to extend that payback period? Not likely anyone is to volunteer for that.

    We’ve got farm land along the Des Moines. Floods out every spring. My uncle rents it. State finally offered him a deal he couldn’t pass up and now a bunch of it is in 10yr. Things are happening…But not corona virus shutting down the economy in 20 days fast. But changes are happening in ag.

    Where i grew up, used to be the most swamp land in mn. We drained it! Then Farmed it. Then drained it better. This has been happening since horses pulled plows.

    Lime Lake in avoca is clean again but nothing downstream is anymore!

    I agree with you fbrm….the economics and politics are going to side with big Ag. You don’t necessarily have to agree with it but it is what it is.

    BigWerm
    SW Metro
    Posts: 11638
    #1937457

    I agree with you fbrm….the economics and politics are going to side with big Ag. You don’t necessarily have to agree with it but it is what it is.

    x3

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #2219407

    She will be never more…well she will with riprap throughout.

    And I quote.
    “So while project construction would have adverse effect on this side channel in the short-term, the long term effects are unknown and may or may not be adverse.

    I’m still scratching my head on how Lassards-Sams money was used on this mostly WI project and the taxpayers from Red Wing, well…Thank you I guess.

    Attachments:
    1. Katrina-is-toast.jpg

    Riverrat
    Posts: 1528
    #2219415

    I got a feeling what some of you call “Big AG” we call family farms. It’s not at all uncommon for individual farmers around here to farm 2000 acres. A family farm might be 3 full sections. The biggest impact I see aren’t from drain tile impact in the river system, but urban runoff in the river system. Most farmers don’t want to lose nutrients or soil since that’s how they make there money. But since most of our money comes from ag here I might be biased.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #2219417

    Take your pick. Urban run off and drain tiles are the two largest contributor to pollution to the rivers.

    However, if we are talking sediment, the MN River and the Crow River lead the way. Partially from drain tiles, some urban run off but mostly from erosion to their banks. They are dirt after all.

    MX1825
    Posts: 3319
    #2219436

    BK nailed it.

    In NW Iowa when it rains the water coming out of the Turkey River I think you could walk on it. doah

    E4mo
    Posts: 68
    #2219451

    Is everyone giving up beef, pork and chicken to save the river? I just threw some baby-backs on the smoker in protest.

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22787
    #2219455

    Is everyone giving up beef, pork and chicken to save the river? I just threw some baby-backs on the smoker in protest.

    Its far more ag land contributing than cattle/hogs.

    E4mo
    Posts: 68
    #2219456

    Corn and soybeans? What’s that for?

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22787
    #2219459

    Corn and soybeans? What’s that for?

    Figured that would be the response, but they are fed far more hay and other grasses than row crops. You feed a cow too much corn and it dies. Buddy had several of his do this.

    Riverrat
    Posts: 1528
    #2219462

    As someone who lives in the Red River watershed peoples opinions about sediment don’t really match up with real world experience. The Red was red long before drainage tiles, and sadly is cleaner now because the ag tiles filter out suspended sediments. I wish I wasn’t 404 erroring on the original article because I have really no idea what i’m talking about.

    E4mo
    Posts: 68
    #2219467

    Steers for market? Did his hogs and meat chickens also eat primarily alfalfa?

    grubson
    Harris, Somewhere in VNP
    Posts: 1614
    #2219471

    Drain tiles and ag are the number 1 cause for poor water quality and loss of wetlands and grasslands. The two most threatened ecosystems in our area.
    Do we need ag? Obviously.
    My question is how much of it do we really need? How much of our wetlands and grasslands are suffering to feed people in other countries?
    As far as urban runoff goes. In my opinion there should be no chemicals being used and sent into OUR water just so your yard can be artificially green. Personally I think watering grass should be illegal too. Just a waste of resources in the name of public appearance.

    Riverrat
    Posts: 1528
    #2219474

    Thanks alot Brian now I’m reading the 2020 US Army Corps of Engineers Upper Pool 4 Main Report because you peaked my curiosity and that’s all the info I could find except what you posted in 2016 and 2020 on IDO. You might be the official internet expert on pool 4 dredging and wildlife expansion project.

    isu22andy
    Posts: 1741
    #2219497

    One thing I’ve seen all my life growing up is how people can farm right up the edge of small creeks or rivers and the corn rows are literally falling off a steep bank into the water . Seen it literally 100s of times . Always thought that was worse than tile but I’m no expert .

    buckybadger
    Upper Midwest
    Posts: 8175
    #2219528

    Corn and soybeans? What’s that for?

    1/3 of the 4.5 billion bushels of soybeans harvested annually in the US are sold to China. We own ag land so are by no means against agriculture, but people need to realize what you see growing around you isn’t exactly feeding your neighbors. These aren’t your grandparents farming anymore. Most of it is sold to the highest bidder (which is often overseas). Capitalism 101…which has the downside of jeopardizing water quality and habitat here if we aren’t careful. Ag commodities here will likely continue to skyrocket over time with global population growth and extreme weather events wiping out crops in some areas. Again, my family stands to profit from that while I also realize that more is going to have to be done to protect our waters.

    We have to do more with sediment control through buffer strips being larger and enforced, along with restoring wetlands that catch runoff/nutrients that cannot be taken back out of our rivers and lakes once they’re there.

    gimruis
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17405
    #2219544

    One thing I’ve seen all my life growing up is how people can farm right up the edge of small creeks or rivers and the corn rows are literally falling off a steep bank into the water . Seen it literally 100s of times . Always thought that was worse than tile but I’m no expert .

    That’s actually illegal now. Mark Dayton and the state legislature passed the buffer strip law years ago that requires a specific amount of natural grassland in between row crops and any waterway like a river, stream, ditch, canal, etc. There was some big push back initially by the ag industry but it has literally added hundreds of miles of natural grassland that helps filter and reduce nutrients that end up in the water. Plus it has also added a lot of wildlife habitat.

    A state like Iowa could implement this and it would have incredible results on their water quality in the Des Moines and Raccoon Rivers, which are the primary source of drinking water in urban areas of Central Iowa. But they won’t because the ag industry is against it. It reduces the amount of land available for crops, which reduces yield, and ultimately reduces profit.

    isu22andy
    Posts: 1741
    #2219547

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>isu22andy wrote:</div>
    One thing I’ve seen all my life growing up is how people can farm right up the edge of small creeks or rivers and the corn rows are literally falling off a steep bank into the water . Seen it literally 100s of times . Always thought that was worse than tile but I’m no expert .

    That’s actually illegal now. Mark Dayton and the state legislature passed the buffer strip law years ago that requires a specific amount of natural grassland in between row crops and any waterway like a river, stream, ditch, canal, etc. There was some big push back initially by the ag industry but it has literally added hundreds of miles of natural grassland that helps filter and reduce nutrients that end up in the water. Plus it has also added a lot of wildlife habitat.

    A state like Iowa could implement this and it would have incredible results on their water quality in the Des Moines and Raccoon Rivers, which are the primary source of drinking water in urban areas of Central Iowa. But they won’t because the ag industry is against it. It reduces the amount of land available for crops, which reduces yield, and ultimately reduces profit.

    Originally from Iowa so that explains why I’ve seen it . If you think the sippi is dirty . You outta see the Missouri and the rivers that dump into it .

    Riverruns
    Posts: 60
    #2219551

    In due time this will be resolved. Most of our productive farm land will be covered with solar panels. We won’t need to disturb the land.

    Who needs crops to feed animals and people? All will be good.

    MX1825
    Posts: 3319
    #2219552

    In due time this will be resolved. Most of our productive farm land will be covered with solar panels. We won’t need to disturb the land.

    Who needs crops to feed animals and people? All will be good.

    So true. Here in SW WI the power companies are covering about 5000 acres of some of the best crop land in the state.

    FishBlood&RiverMud
    Prescott
    Posts: 6687
    #2219562

    Something I learned this past winter talking with area fisheries manager nick.
    White bass are in a permanent decline cycle. Why, they prefer dirty turbulent water. Confused in this statement nick helped my understand a little more.
    Yes our water flows to the river faster now than before. River rise faster and fall faster. But it is not dirtier or sustaining higher flows for longer periods like when mostly surface runoff. So, in short. Everything we’ve done to clean up water has doomed the white bass. Though I might recognize lots of white bass in the system currently, others have pointed out to me over the years there were many many more. My apologies for disagreeing over the years through my ignorance of not having the lengthy experience as some on the river.
    Maybe doomed is the wrong term as they do exist in many lakes and river without dirty turbulent qualities and will continue to exist to an extent. Limits were reduced to slow the decline.
    I think many here see them as trash, or maybe just lesser of a fish to a walleye… offering the opinion that if you want to eat more fish eat some white bass. You may consider absorbing the situation and reducing the mentality of filling coolers with white bass.
    Certainly interesting the dynamics of individual fish in and large ecosystem going through changes. What may be good for one is bad for another.

    Good bye Katrina. Luckily the walleye population currently stands well above historic levels and can sustain this minor change to the system.

    Enjoy your Friday

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #2219566

    Good bye Katrina. Luckily the walleye population currently stands well above historic levels and can sustain this minor change to the system.

    Totally agree for walleyes. Sometimes I forget and think they are the only fish in the river too.

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