Small Plot Soil Question

Hey guys, I am embarking on making my first mini or kill plot. I have zero experience but been reading what I can on it.
The plot will about 7,500 sq feet maybe little bigger.
Anyways there is a little trickle wet/dry creek that runs next to it and when we get alot of heavy rain if over flows the area and has deposited sand in the soil, not super bad but there is some. The other part is when you step on the soil you sink an 1″ or 2″ with loose soil, it is easy to pull buck brush out of it by hand. I hope that makes sense.

So my questions are what do you think would grow in that? It gets pretty good sunlight but just got the soil to send in today for testing on PH.
The other thing is would I have to roll something over the soil before seeding to compact the soil?

I don’t own the land and it will be human power tools. I was thinking about planting Clover mix now and then over seeding Rye in late August. The loose soil has me worried. Thank you, Bill.

Loose sandy soil is not going to hold water very well at all, I would guess that anything you plant in there is going to have to be drought resistant. Clover is about the only thing that comes to mind for a plot like that, maybe brassica, which is drought tolerant also.

If you can, I would wait with your planting until late summer, around middle of August. If you try spring planting clover more often than not you will have weed issues. Wait until August, then work up the ground. Spread your winter rye(NOT RYE GRASS) roll or pack the soil, then spread your clover seed and roll/pack again. The rye will come up very quickly keeping the weeds at bay and your clover will start growing shortly after that. Good luck.

Sticker is right, I would temper your expectations. It sounds like you have silt in that area, which doesn’t hold water very well. As soon as you expose the soil, it’s going to dry out very, very quickly.

IMO this is one of those reality check situations. Would you be better off to establish a plot in a better area even if the initial work is more? Just because there is an open space in this area may not equate to “less work” over the long haul. You might be better off to back up into an area of better soil even if you have to work harder to open up the area.

Keep in mind, with food plot crops, it’s not like corn farming where you have to till the soil and plant seeds at depth. Most food plot crops are surface seeded and packed. For a couple of years, I had plots where I had just cut off the trees and brush stumps at ground level and I rolled the disc right over them. Plots grew just fine. You don’t have to have ground that looks like a good Iowa corn field to have a food plot.

If you go forward, Rye and clover is the only way to go, but even that will be a crapshoot. The #1 key factor is going to be timing. If at all possible, watch the forecast and plant as Sticker says, sometime in August. I would add to TRY to time the planting for a week that has multiple chances of rain in the forecast. It will be essential to get multiple rains so that the rye will sprout and then have enough moisture to grow and begin to shade the ground before it dries out and the plot dies.

I would not try a mainly brassicas blend in that area. You could throw forage peas in with the rye/clover if you really wanted to, but turnips/radish, etc have to be seeded thin to give room for growth and that will expose the soil surface to drying up more.

Grouse

I have a plot like yours in peat straight peat. Soil test showed very acidic and said nothing would grow. I did it anyway and it one of the best spots. As long as it doesn’t flood out. I add lime each year which is important and I use deer creek brassica blend. It has done well every year. As long as you can expect less then perfect situation its small enough to to try it. I have found fall plantings have been the best in our other plots as it is fairly sandy. I plant around the 4 th of July.

Thank you all for the information and imput, I appreciate it very much.
I hunt inside city limits to help control the deer population, I could watch tv from 3 houses while in the treestand lol. It is just a small point of woods in an Ag field I have permission to hunt.

Done well the last 2 years here but wanted to make the plot for fun and to help funnel the deer in a narrower window, esp. to play the wind. On this property I unfortunately don’t have any other options on plot location.

Almost sounds like it may not be worth it but think I will give it a shot and plant clover/winter rye mix come August like you guys said. Mike’s post gave me hope for the soil!

Think I will just nuke the grass and not turn the soil over at all to help try to keep the moisture in. Would throwing Hey on top the soil after I seed help with holding moisture?
Thanks again guys.

I like to break the soil up. You could till in spring kill the weeds. Then spray any regrowth till and plant. Every time you till it will bring new weed seeds up. But if you had heavy grass it is best to turn it and let is decompose a bit. Seed bed is important. In my sandy soil I disk my seeds in the cultipacker didn’t work for me. As for clover it really doesn’t start to do much till year two. I like a blend with brassica and clover the brassica is an annual and clover perennial. The annual plots are much better attraction. Sugar beet s are hard to beat. Rape is a good choice.

Definitely worth a try. I am not sure about putting hey over it. The rye will grow thru it, but it might choke out the clover. If you have rye coming up it will keep the weeds down and still shade out the soil so it doesn’t dry out as fast. Good luck and keep us posted on the progress.

Yes, it’s totally worth a try. There is no downside.

The reason I like a grain/clover mix is that I think in light soil it’s beneficial to use a crop that shades the ground from sunlight absolutely as quickly as possible to reduce moisture loss.

I would not put hay over clover, the clover is slower to germinate and could be choked out by the hay.

On a plot this size, I would kill it off with Roundup and a hand sprayer. Then if you have a garden tiller, that would be ideal. Set it very high, you only need to dig in a little. Ideally, then wait 2 weeks and roundup again to kill whatever turns green after tilling. Then plant.

Personally, I’d hit the area with a couple of bags of pelletized lime and a bag of 10-10-10 fertilizer right before planting.

As I mentioned before, if you live close by, try to time your planting for August and watch for a week with multiple chances of rain if at all possible.

If you have rye and clover, the deer WILL find it. The only downside is that in a plot this small, it’ll be kept mowed like a golf green, but the deer will keep coming.

Keep us in the loop. Should be a great plot experiment.

Grouse

Man thank you guys so much, awesome input. I will follow what you guys said and see how we turn out. Think I will throw a some of those beets or rape in the mix as well. I only live a couple miles away so no problem getting seed down before a rain which will be nice.

I will post up how things turn out either way, hopefully there will be some nice green to look at. I appreciate the help!

eye-full wrote:

Hey guys, I am embarking on making my first mini or kill plot.

….That is a Food plot Not a KILL Plot I have been told.– Just Saying. … rrr

river rat randy wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>eye-full wrote:</div>
Hey guys, I am embarking on making my first mini or kill plot.

….That is a Food plot Not a KILL Plot I have been told.– Just Saying. … rrr

Thanks for your extremely helpful posts as always RRR

sticker wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>river rat randy wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>eye-full wrote:</div>
Hey guys, I am embarking on making my first mini or kill plot.

….That is a Food plot Not a KILL Plot I have been told.– Just Saying. … rrr

Thanks for your extremely helpful posts as always RRR

…The last I new this is a open forum were every one can express there opinions. You have your opinions an I have mine, there just different that’s all. … rrr Ps Just two different styles of hunting. You hunt over food plots I hunt with out. I think one of those ways is more fair chase than the other. Good Luck.! …..For now it is walleyes turkeys an morels.

river rat randy wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>eye-full wrote:</div>
Hey guys, I am embarking on making my first mini or kill plot.

….That is a Food plot Not a KILL Plot I have been told.– Just Saying. … rrr

Man, the world is a better place now that we cleared up THAT major crime. Sleep well tonight, gentlemen, for all this mortal coil’s wrongs have been righted.

Grouse

Hey eye-full… I planted a small plot of clover years ago in mid august and it did very well. It is not really sandy, but it is wet. the ground was turned with a hand tiller… see the thread here and Have fun !

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>river rat randy wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>eye-full wrote:</div>
Hey guys, I am embarking on making my first mini or kill plot.

….That is a Food plot Not a KILL Plot I have been told.– Just Saying. … rrr

Man, the world is a better place now that we cleared up THAT major crime. Sleep well tonight, gentlemen, for all this mortal coil’s wrongs have been righted.

Grouse

…Now that’s just plain FUNNY. …. rrr

Thanks Big G, looks like your “Food Plot” turned out great!

Hey guys just wanted to give an update on how things went. I broadcast seeded August 23 and this is what it looked like a week ago ( Sep 12 ).

It is a Clover mix with Rye Grain, Wheat, Oats, little bit of peas and rape.
I added a little more Rye, Wheat and Oats on the 12th. Not full and lush but I think I might be happy with it.

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That came in really nice!! The clover will come in even stronger next year. Good job!

Looks really nice.

Given the light soil, if the clover is thin next spring, overseed it right away in the spring. The thicker you get the clover, the better off you’ll be in light soil. As much as possible, you want to shade the ground from sunlight.

Have you fertilized? If not, get a hand spreader and apply 50 pounds of 10-10-10 or 20-10-10. That will really kick up the growth a notch.

Grouse

Thank you. In July I put down Lime 2000 # per acre (140# for this plot) and worked it in to the soil with a rake right before a rain. I have not put down any fertilizer, someone told me it would do no good in that soil.

I will put 50# of fertilizer down, thank you. I noticed the deer are moving through the area but did not see a lot of browse on the plants.

I am planning to frost seed some more clover and chicory into it this coming spring, I think I really need to thicken that clover up.

Thank you guys, nothing else it opened up some shooting lanes for my dad to use from a ground blind. That whole area was nothing but thick brush and under growth. Took a lot of work to clear it but I actually enjoyed it. Hopefully we can fill the freezer with a couple does off it.

Looks pretty darn good, nice work and it’s cool to see pics and an update.

eye-full wrote:

I will put 50# of fertilizer down, thank you. I noticed the deer are moving through the area but did not see a lot of browse on the plants.

Don’t worry! Across the board, I’m not seeing a lot of deer browse activity in my plots right now. That will all change in about 2-3 weeks.

Keep in mind, the ag fields are still full of goodies right now. But the party is starting to end. Up in my area, the silage corn got cut over the past 2 weeks, so in this took care of 3/4 of the corn available to the deer in one 2 week period.

Once the ag crops start disappearing, the deer will find your rye. Your rye will benefit from a few more weeks of growing time anyway.

Grouse

A lot of times it’s tough to tell if there is browse pressure, especially with rye that grows so fast. I am sure they are using it and will use it more heavily when the ag crops come out like Grouse said. If you put an exclusion cage(about 1 foot diameter fence) in the plot somewhere so they can’t browse that spot you will be surprised at how much faster that grows.

Thanks Basseyes, I will try to keep updating as we go along here and maybe a harvest shot ;). I really wish I would have taken a before picture of it, it was a mess.

Thanks Grouse and Sticker, I will put out a cage and see what happens. This has really been an enjoyable experience and can understand why some enjoy it as much as hunting. I even got a lady friend to help in the project, I just have to buy Dairy Queen for her and send pictures. She denies any help in killing Bambi though lol.

I am hoping this late fall/winter they really like the green of the Rye. This is a doe management area so only able to harvest the girls but think they taste better anyways. Have a couple needy families I like to help when I can.

That plot will pull in a lot of deer starting in late October. That rye will stay green when everything else is brown. The biggest challenge with smaller plots is the deer love them too much. When I had .5 acre plots, they looked like putting greens in the woods. The deer diligently mowed .05 inches of new growth off them each and every day.

Great suggestion from Sticker, though. Certainly, do a browse exclusion cage to see the real story. This has been a revelation for a lot of guys who thought the deer weren’t using their plots.

Grouse

eye-full wrote:

I really wish I would have taken a before picture of it, it was a mess.

This has really been an enjoyable experience and can understand why some enjoy it as much as hunting.

Just looking around the edges and seeing the new growth says you did it very well. Prepping for food plots is where you got to keep thinking about it as a process as you look at a dead and bare piece of dirt. Then you plant and it’s still just dirt. Then you wait. Hope. Pray. Repeat. And can’t wait to see it start to germinate and sprout up from the ground. There’s absolutely no instant gratification. But when you see a plot like yours really start to grow it is extremely satisfying. Then you wait again for most other forage to dry up. And that’s when the magic happens.

For me, food plots and habitat work has become more fun than pulling a trigger or letting an arrow go. It is still part of it. Just not all of it.

I would be thrilled with your results in not ideal soil.

Thanks guys for all the encouragement and knowledge you have shared, it is appreciated.

Well good and disappointing news. I got the fertilizer down and the cage in.
Bad news is the heavy rain and flooding we are getting washed almost half the plot out. Hope it bounces back but it looked completely washed out.

At lest the main area is still good.

Eye, sorry to hear about the washout. At the end of the day, we’re still at the mercy of the weather and sometimes it doesn’t go our way.

Personally, given the forecast and the relatively low cost, IMO it would be worth re-seeding. I know this seems pretty wacky, but if you went with straight rye or rye/clover blend, you might get a good bounce with the weather and end up with some productivity in that washed out area.

If nothing else, plant straight oats or rye. The seed is cheap and IMO there’s nothing ventured, nothing gained. The 10 day forecast should be good enough to produce germination if you got the seed down quickly.

Just a thought.

Grouse