WX1850/F150 and a Se Sport 300 Hydrofoil

Well, I received the Se Sport 300 Hydrofoil and the drill free sport clip this week so today was test day. In the interest of objectivity, I did everything I could to quantify the data and make sure the results make sense to you guys and are reproducible.

Water Temp: 77.7*

Air Temp: 84*

Back gas tank 1/4 full (6-8 gallons), Front gas tank 3/4 full (approx 15 gallons).

Back livewell and back baitwell filled with water.

Prop: 19p Reliance (13.75″ Diameter)

Outboard Mount: 2nd hole from the top.

I put the boat in the water and got baseline data without the hydrofoil. Then pulled the boat out, installed the hydrofoil in the parking lot and put the boat back in and got data with hydrofoil on.

To assess time to plane (Hole Shot) I tried to use a level so I could quantify when I was on plane. That didn’t work so I had to decide when the boat felt to be on plane. I did my best to determine the same point where I felt the boat was on plane.

Hole Shot:

without Hydrofoil: 12.06 sec

with Hydrofoil: 8.68 sec

Top Speed:

without Hydrofoil: 46.7 MPH (AGAINST CURRENT), 47.6 MPH (WITH CURRENT)

with Hydrofoil: 46.3 MPH (AGAINST CURRENT), 47.1 MPH (WITH CURRENT)

Lowest speed before boat falls off plane:

Without Hydrofoil 19-20 MPH

With Hydrofoil 17-18 MPH

Hopefully this helps answer some of the questions for your guys with WX1850s.

The hydrofoil appeared to resolve some of the porpoising issues that I perceive to be experiencing.

Good info. I have a hydrofoil on a Yamaha 50 – never thought much about it as it came with the boat. Guess I’ll leave it on – would guess some of the same performance characteristics would carry over to most rigs.

Pete

I thought you were against the hyd. because of looks, so how does it look back there, you got any pics of it on? How much did it cost? I am definattly interested on getting one myself. I really like the idea of getting on plane when it gets rough out their. Glad to here it helped on the porpoising issues.

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I thought you were against the hyd. because of looks, so how does it look back there, you got any pics of it on? How much did it cost? I am definattly interested on getting one myself. I really like the idea of getting on plane when it gets rough out their. Glad to here it helped on the porpoising issues.

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I do/did not like the look of it. It’s growing on me. After talking with the guys from SBC we decided I would try it to get this data in the interest of trying everything. That and I know James Holst was satisfied with the results on his 1950 as well as Matt Schultz liking the results of the hydrofoil on his.

The SE 300 Sport Hydrofoil is $60 and the Sport Clip is $40.

It’s important to note my boat was purposely loaded VERY WRONG in the interest of testing worst case scenario. I’m excited to see how much better the boat will perform when loaded for optimal performance AND has the hydrofoil.

I’ll bet it looks the same in the water as it did before .

Pics of the SE 300 Sport Hydrofoil on the F150

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I’ll bet it looks the same in the water as it did before .

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Better, it’s not porpoising.

Wade,

Just for clarification, is this the same prop too? I know in a different post you had mentioned trying a different prop or having some prop work done.

Thanks,

FDR

Nice report Wade.

I’m curious to what RPM & speed you were at when you were “on plane” (hole shot time). I’ve never officially timed it, but even with 3 adults and a child, full tanks and wells, I haven’t had 12+ secs on plane times.

I’m guessing I’m at close to 4 secs with 2 guys, and similar load now, with an SE3000 bolted on. After 8 secs. I’m guessing I’m nearing 5500 rpm and 45mph.

I’ll pay attention on Monday and Tuesday with my dad (big guy) on our trip to Leech. I’ve got my tanks near empty now, and will fill the front (back filler, lol) and put about 5 in the rear and will fill both wells and compare notes.

Although I’ve never had any porpoising issues, even with 4 people / full tanks, I do notice a significant improvement in “on-plane” and “stay on-plane” speeds with the SE3000 as well.

I’m curious if you ever tried out the new prop as well.

Thanks for the report…

I was talking to a fellow 621 owner that has a 250 yami and he could not get the boat on plane w/3people and had to install the “foil”. I have the Proxs 250 on my 621 and jumps on plane w/3 and a dog/cooler/lots of gear/full livewell.
I think the lack of low end HP is most of the problem?

I have not tried the new prop yet. I’m still waiting for it.

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I’m curious to what RPM & speed you were at when you were “on plane” (hole shot time). I’ve never officially timed it, but even with 3 adults and a child, full tanks and wells, I haven’t had 12+ secs on plane times.

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Mike, you may call your boat on plane when it’s out of the hole. I stopped the watch when the boat was back to level and climbing in RPMs. That’s why I said this was hard to quantify. I don’t think the fact that it took me 12 seconds from point A to point B is as important. The important thing is that I did this in a reproducible manner and was able to show a 3 second improvement. I would have to think that our boats are operating in with similar results.

I also didn’t pay attention to the speed and RPM. I considered that as well as a quantifier but I wasn’t sure if it would be a good method.

I was talking to Nicole about this and I think these new big glass boats are to big/heavy for the current HP rating system. I know you see this problem extensively in the off shore (salt water) boats. Perhaps the USCG needs to reassess it’s rating system. The WX2000T is a prime example.

I think that’s why Yammi is going to that Off Shore outboard with more “power”.

Got it! I figured we had different “hole shot” / on plane definitions. Kinda subjective measurements, but thanks for the objective numbers / improvements.

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Water Temp: 77.7*

Air Temp: 84*

Back gas tank 1/4 full (6-8 gallons), Front gas tank 3/4 full (approx 15 gallons).

Back livewell and back baitwell filled with water.

Prop: 19p Reliance (13.75″ Diameter)

Outboard Mount: 2nd hole from the top.

Hole Shot:

without Hydrofoil: 12.06 sec

with Hydrofoil: 8.68 sec

Top Speed:

without Hydrofoil: 46.7 MPH downstream, 47.6 MPH upstream

with Hydrofoil: 46.3 MPH downstream, 47.1 MPH upstream

Lowest speed before boat falls off plane:

Without Hydrofoil 19-20 MPH

With Hydrofoil 17-18 MPH

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The hydrofoil in my eyes really didn’t seem to make much of a difference speed wise except in the hole shot which means it got on plane faster. It makes me wonder was everything exactly replicated for each test to a T? How many times did you test the hole shot? Was that an average time or a 1 time deal? also seems a bit odd that your boat runs faster upstream then it does down

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The hydrofoil in my eyes really didn’t seem to make much of a difference speed wise except in the hole shot which means it got on plane faster. It makes me wonder was everything exactly replicated for each test to a T? How many times did you test the hole shot? Was that an average time or a 1 time deal? also seems a bit odd that your boat runs faster upstream then it does down

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Jesse, I’m sorry, I reversed those upstream/downstream definitions. FASTER SPEED GOING WITH THE CURRENT, SLOWER SPEED GOING AGAINST THE CURRENT.

Yes, you are correct. I really didn’t loose much top end for what I potentially gained.

The hole shot was an average of 4 test runs each (4 with and 4 without).
Hole Shot Range without: 11.03 – 13.08 sec
Hole Shot Range with: 8.10 – 9.29 sec

Were you having problems getting on plane ? or just looking for a faster hole shot ?

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Were you having problems getting on plane ? or just looking for a faster hole shot ?

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My biggest percieved issue was porpoising. That’s what I’m ultimately looking to fix. However the hole shot could be better. So if I can gain more stability, slower cruising (on plane speed) and a better hole shot while I’m trying to fix the porpoising. I’ll take it.

Porpoising is usually caused by too much bow weight. If there is room try to get as much weight as you can towards the back of the boat (trolling batteries, heavy gear & tackle boxes, etc.) The more weight in back the better, not only will you pick up a mile or 2 per hour but you will potentially have a smoother ride.

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Porpoising is usually caused by too much bow weight. If there is room try to get as much weight as you can towards the back of the boat (trolling batteries, heavy gear & tackle boxes, etc.) The more weight in back the better, not only will you pick up a mile or 2 per hour but you will potentially have a smoother ride.

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A little clarification please!?!?!?! Everything I’ve ever read is porpoising is caused by to much weight in the stern and/or not enough stern lift. So getting the bow to come down via weight/trim/stern lift will cure the problem.

You just told me it’s 100% opposite. I’m confused.

Here is a good write up on porpoising and its possible cures.

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When you experience it, you won’t forget it.
Basically, porpoising is the word used to describe a bouncing boat — when the boat is bouncing from hull or trim combinations and not the water.

Effectively what is happening is as follows:
The boat comes up on plane and begans to accelerate. As the motor is trimmed back, more and more of the boat comes out of the water. If enough of the boat can be made to come out of the water, and there is not enough hull surface or motor power to support this hull attitude – the boat bounces back down, and then as the motor begans to push the hull back out of the water, the process is repeated.

Many high performance hulls will experience this phenomena at some point in their performance envelope. Typically, is a person is going for maximum speed – he trims the motor back until the boat begans to bounce (porpoise) – and then trim it back in just enough to stop the porpoising. Then as wind or waves come and go, the trim needs to be adjusted to keep the boat balanced on this critical point between bouncing and not.

In the interest of stability (at the cost of some perfomrnce) – many folks keep their motors / weight adjusted so that the boat can’t bounce (porpoise) under any condition. In most cases, if a boat can’t be made to porpoise at some point in the trim, jack plate setting, throttle setting — it is likely that maximum performance is not being obtained from the boat hull.

Bottom line — porpoising is boat bouncing – that makes for an uncomfortable ride – is unstable – may lead to loss of boat control.

The typical cures for porpoising consist of the following:
1. Slow down
2. Trim the motor in
3. Move weight forward — luggage, or passangers.
4. Add a Hydrofoil or fin on the cavitation plate.
5. Add trim tabs to the transom of the boat, to exert a stabilizing effect on the boat.
5. Add “hook” to the bottom edge of the transom of the boat. This “hook” is typically molded into fiberglass hulls, or built into aluminum hulls – to add a “bow downward stabilizing” force to the hull at high attitudes of hull performance.

Another way to look at porpoising is that as a boat is porpoising — the entire boat, motor and weight of passangers and load are basically balancing on the transom. i.e. the entire boat is basically out of the water, except for the last two or three inches of hull and transom. That is why a very “slight” balancing force many be exerted to bring the bow down — and in many cases totally cures “porpoising” problems.

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Porpoising is usually caused by too much bow weight. If there is room try to get as much weight as you can towards the back of the boat (trolling batteries, heavy gear & tackle boxes, etc.) The more weight in back the better, not only will you pick up a mile or 2 per hour but you will potentially have a smoother ride.

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News to me too. Although I can make my boat (any boat I’ve had) porpoise, I’ve always experienced less tendency to porpoise with weight evenly distributed, or more up front. More weight in the back has never helped me out. That said, I do remember hearing that the MX runs better with a full livewell. Interesting.

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I do remember hearing that the MX runs better with a full livewell. Interesting.

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I truly believe all boats, not just Skeeters are matched to an outboard/prop combo as they come from the factory. Once you fill the storage with gear, hang a 112# kicker on the back and put in 4 batteries (55# each). You completely change the dynamics of the ride and the outboard/prop combo may be completely inappropriate for that set-up.

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Perhaps the USCG needs to reassess it’s rating system. The WX2000T is a prime example.

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everyone would love it if this was looked at for heavier glass tillers in the 18-20′ range.

that being said, the WX2000T is not actually a good example because it’s not subject to the USCG power ratings. those regulations only apply to boats under 20′ long. the 115hp rating on the WX2000T (or the previous 150hp rating) is a choice by Skeeter, I assume to keep Yamaha the most appealing motor due to limits on their access to hydraulic steering systems.

mine has the 150hp and it’s great with no hydrofoil: 4 second hole shot and 47mph with 2 guys, full load, and 40 gallons of gas. i imagine the 115hp would see a bigger benefit from a foil for getting and staying on plane?

thanks for sharing this info, it really shows where you gained the benefit. i might even consider trying one on mine just to see if i could stay on plane a tad slower to save gas on some of those long runs. if i do, i’ll test and post similar to how you did it.

Porpoise as defined by my boat owners manual.

Porpoise: A condition in which the bow bounces up and down caused by trimming the engine to far out.

I clearly remember reading that somewhere but as I go through my manual further it says that too much load in the stern could cause porpoising. ( I guess I made a mistake, I am only human after all )

It makes sense to me that keeping an even load would work best but it sounds to me like the ultimate problem is trim. Are/were you having problems with the boat getting up on or staying on plane or just the porpoising ?

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Porpoise as defined by my boat owners manual.

Porpoise: A condition in which the bow bounces up and down caused by trimming the engine to far out.

I clearly remember reading that somewhere but as I go through my manual further it says that too much load in the stern could cause porpoising. ( I guess I made a mistake, I am only human after all )

It makes sense to me that keeping an even load would work best but it sounds to me like the ultimate problem is trim. Are/were you having problems with the boat getting up on or staying on plane or just the porpoising ?

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No, not what I would call problems. However the Hydrofoil has made my low speed planing much easier and coming onto plane much faster.

Very good info. I think I will try one. I talked to another guy who loads his boat heavy ,and he also said a hydrofoil was a big help.

I run a WX2000T with a 150/19-M prop and a kicker and decided to try the SE300 with the Sport Clip. It increased my top end 1 MPH or so and greatly improved my hole shot. Looking at the no drill sprot clip I decided it was causing some drag. Since the hydrofoil improved my overall performance I decided to go ahead and attach the hydrofoil directly to the cavitation plate. This seemed to help even more on the top end. Overall I gained 2 MPH and the hole shot still blows people away. It sure is a fun boat at tournament take offs.

As for the porpoising, it didn’t seem to help me too much. I can run this thing 51 MPH by myself and hit 6100 RPMs(Only have hit the rev limiter 1 time)and expierence little to no porpoising. With a passenger in the boat the porpoising gets worse and for a smooth ride I have to trim down. Thus, I can only run about 46-47MPH and only hit about 5600 RPMs.

I’ve tried moving my passenger forward and even had them sit clear up on the nose of the boat. It doesn’t seem to make a difference where they are in the boat, I still get the same performance and it porpoises like crazy.

I’m thinking it’s time to do a little prop testing or have this one worked a little bit. I wouldn’t mind the hole shot dropping just a little if I could get more rpm’s out of it with a passenger and no porpoising. It sure feels like it would run better with passengers if I could just find the right balance of prop and trim.

Any suggestions???

You’ll hero or zero on the topend, but seems all this porpoising talk is due to not enough lift at the back of the boat. IMHO, try a good 4 blade prop that will lift the back of the boat. Seems 3 blades are almost too good on some boats for bow lift, hence the bouncing while trying to get max speed-so it tends to be a trade off. 51 for your boat in a tiller is awesome!!!!!-but can see it being a fickle beast with a quick tipping point; that is ALOT of boat for a 150, what is it rated in a console?

Good luck Ben and hope to see you up here on the river in the spring!

Jeremy

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I run a WX2000T with a 150/19-M prop and a kicker and decided to try the SE300 with the Sport Clip. It increased my top end 1 MPH or so and greatly improved my hole shot. Looking at the no drill sprot clip I decided it was causing some drag. Since the hydrofoil improved my overall performance I decided to go ahead and attach the hydrofoil directly to the cavitation plate. This seemed to help even more on the top end. Overall I gained 2 MPH and the hole shot still blows people away. It sure is a fun boat at tournament take offs.

As for the porpoising, it didn’t seem to help me too much. I can run this thing 51 MPH by myself and hit 6100 RPMs(Only have hit the rev limiter 1 time)and expierence little to no porpoising. With a passenger in the boat the porpoising gets worse and for a smooth ride I have to trim down. Thus, I can only run about 46-47MPH and only hit about 5600 RPMs.

I’ve tried moving my passenger forward and even had them sit clear up on the nose of the boat. It doesn’t seem to make a difference where they are in the boat, I still get the same performance and it porpoises like crazy.

I’m thinking it’s time to do a little prop testing or have this one worked a little bit. I wouldn’t mind the hole shot dropping just a little if I could get more rpm’s out of it with a passenger and no porpoising. It sure feels like it would run better with passengers if I could just find the right balance of prop and trim.

Any suggestions???

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Ben, I’m anxiously awaiting a Powertech OFS 18P with a larger diameter. I’m going to try it with and without the Hydrofoil. Hopefully that should solve all my issue and improve everything else.

Contact Ricky (AKA: Propmann) on Walleye Central. He should be able to help you.

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I’m thinking it’s time to do a little prop testing or have this one worked a little bit. I wouldn’t mind the hole shot dropping just a little if I could get more rpm’s out of it with a passenger and no porpoising. It sure feels like it would run better with passengers if I could just find the right balance of prop and trim. Any suggestions???

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i’m very interested in this as well…but i realize we’re hijacking this thread. i’ll start a new one for the WX2000T.

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….I think these new big glass boats are to big/heavy for the current HP rating system. I know you see this problem extensively in the off shore (salt water) boats. Perhaps the USCG needs to reassess it’s rating system. The WX2000T is a prime example.

I think that’s why Yammi is going to that Off Shore outboard with more “power”.

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I agree with you 100% Wade. I run a 2006 1880 with an w/F150 and a T8. I kick myself every day for not going with the 200 HPDI. Don’t get me wrong, the F150 runs fine for every day use, but if you want exceptional performance, you need to go with the larger motor. I also agree with your current rating assessment. The 17-footer is another example. That thing should be rated with more HP too! However, it really looks like the MX series was put together right, so maybe it is a design thing??
I run a 19P Merc Enertia prop on mine and seem to be getting a bit better performance on the hole and top end than what you’re describing with your current rig. I also raised my motor one hold and I ALWAYS run with a full front tank. Remember though, this warm muggy weather is not the best time to be judging the performance of your (any) rig – and calm flat water is not as good to test on than that with a little wind ripple. …You will always show better numbers/get better results in cooler weather.