Shooting smokeless….

I have a Woodman Patriot .45 cal muzzleloader that I have dedicated to shooting smokeless powder. Its been an interesting journey. There are a few powders that when loaded moderately stay under the 42,000 psi that I need to consider and thus far I have shoot 4: IMR4198, 5744 Accurate, N110 and N120.The N110 I only had a couple charges worth to try and haven’t had any luck in finding any more locally. The 5744 was a dirty powder to shoot so I vacated that one. The 4198 is clean shooting and a fairly accurate powder at 56 grains using 185, 200, and 225 grain, .40 cal bullets in light blue sabots. Barnes Expanders at 195 grains shoot pretty well with the 4198, as do the 200 grain XTP Hornady bullets and 225 grain Fury bullets. Today I shot the N120 at 58 and 58.5 grains using Fury’s 200 grain, .400 diameter bullets in the blue sabots and came home very pleased.

I shot at 105 yards today. After a fouling shot put on the target well below the bull, I shot 5 at the bull using the 58 grain charges and the new Fury bullet, hitting a couple inches high. The group size was right at an inch for the widest spread. Another 5 shots were sent at the target dot above the regular bull. These were the 58.5 grain charges. Again, the widest point in the spread was just under 1″. Again, very happy with this load as well. Estimated velocity is about 2800fps. This loading would be fine out to 300 yards if I ever needed that kind of range.

Wearing a Vortex Crossfire 3X9X40 scope, this rifle weighs in at a hair under 7 pounds. While I can probably sneak up to 60 grains of the N120 powder in as a max charge, I think that either of the two charges I shot today will be considered good enough. At 58.5 grains and the 200 grain pill, recoil is about like a 338 Weatherby Mag pushing 250 grainers. The scope was clicking on my safety glasses with each shot. lol I’m planning to hunt the Fury 200 grain bullets because they are a bonded bullet and will maintain their integrity to about 3300/3400fps, something that the XTP cannot do and questionable about the Barnes 195’s. The Fury 225’s are bonded too but just too heavy for the shorter-range shots that I generally see. These Fury 200 grainers are about perfect and after today’s time at the bench I’m pretty much settled on using them this fall.

As per my usual hunting practice, I’ll take the .50 cal Optima pistol every other day. This gun uses nothing but 90 weighed grains Blackhorn 209 powder and a 225 grain, .44 cal Barnes XPB bullet in a plain green sabot. Ballistically its very close to a 454 Casul. Potent medicine. Most deer drop on the spot with this tool.

I need to hit the range again soon to move the crosshairs a couple clicks to the left, then proof the shots on paper. The pistol has already passed muster. With the next range time a wrap I’ll be ready for the woods. I sure hope we cool down this fall. While hunting in a long-sleeved shirt might be comfy it makes for a lot of work if a deer drops. When the deer have been had and winter sets in, I’ll be back at the range with a couple new bullets and maybe three new powders. My quest with this smokeless muzzie is 5 shots into one 5/8″-3/4″ hole. It’ll be fun trying to get there.

As we roll out of September more and more guns are seen at the ranges and afield. Stay safe in your hunting and shooting and absolutely good luck to all of you.

I have never played with powders or any thing with my smoke pole. I bought it from a gentleman on here who told me what he shoots and I just stuck with that. I don’t know much about muzzle loaders but I’d love to sit with some one and learn.

You’re not recoil sensitive, are you? It is interesting to note the difference in felt recoil between a muzzleloader and a centerfire rifle, even with smokeless in the muzzleloader. Seems more of a push than a snap. I do use a long eye relief Leupold on my muzzleloader, no scope brow.

How does the Optima compare to a .454 Casul for recoil. I shot a Casul once at the range, that was enough for me. A .44 Mag Red Hawk is fine but the step up to the Casul rattled my teeth a litte.

First, I’ll clarify that this Patriot muzzleloader was designed specifically for BH209 use, but versions after that have smokeless barrels and breech plugs designed to handle smokeless pressures in moderate loads. This gun maxes out with an 84 grain by weight charge of BH209. Barrel pressures using bullets at or over 300 grains can generate pressure that even some smokeless loads won’t get up to. With smokeless this gun is no different than a cartridge gun in that different powders, different bullets, different ignition types, all can play a role in accuracy, grouping, and felt recoil. At 56 grains the 4198, with any of the 195, 200 or 225 grain bullets I use will group at about 1-1/4″ at 100 yards. This N120 is grouping at about an inch so it has closed up the group a bit. That’s what I was hoping for in snooping this powder out to try. Both loads offer a pretty sharp pop on the shoulder. Not much of a push. That 58/58.5 grain load is something with a 200 grain pill and I have zero plans to do a 225, or 240, or a 250 grain number.

The pistol with the 63 grain by weight charge [90 by volume] and a 225 grain bullets fetches between 1600fps and 1700fps, leaning towards the 1700. Recoil wise, its somewhere between the Casul with a 250 grain and 300 grain bullet. The 250 in a Casul is manageable if one has the wrists and hand strength. The 300 can be pretty harsh. If shot both loads, factory ammo, and while I can handle the 300 I prefer not to. Thru the spring and summer months when I hit the range I generally have the Optima pistol along and do ten rounds at each trip. Any more than that and the palm will start bruising unless I shoot with a glove and I hate shooting with a glove. On deer I try to keep my shots with the pistol inside 50 yards but I have complete confidence in the accuracy out to around 75. Last season was my furthest pistol shot at 39 yards. The buck fell right where he stood when the bullet hit. The bullet was a Barnes copper XPB and was found on the floor while skinning the deer. It went in behind the left shoulder and exited thru the front of the right shoulder, taking both lungs and the heart.

Here’s the recovered bullet.

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Great information, thanks. When I shot the Casul it was with a 250 grain factory load. It got my attention.

I know James Holst was doing a custom smokeless build and have been curious how that has moved along. I think he is putting some serious $$$ into it so it should be a doozie. I’m hoping he’ll pop in here to let us in on the build.

I had one of the original Savage 10ML-II’s and used RL7 to great effect. It was a 50cal and I used the 250gr SST. Irons were the flavor of the day as my state (WI) did not allow optics over 1X at the time. Fired “many” sub MOA 3-shot groups at 100yds using a fine beaded blade and a rear mounted peep sight. That yielded a looong sight radius and gave a very precise aim on an reduced NRA Highpower target.

Also used H110 (required a tight fit of the projectile or hangfires DID occur), N110 and H4198. Cannot help regarding smokeless powders for the 45cal and would stick to the manufacturers recommendations. The faster burn rates will likely work better than what worked in the 50cal.

The 250gr SST was instant death on a whitetail at Smokeless velocities. One that I hit at 165yds took it dead center in the lungs, broadside, then exited tight to the shoulder on the far side. Dropped it like a toilet cover and showed bloodshot meat in front of that far shoulder. It was ugly. Another was hit at 150ys and threw it to the ground like it was hit with a poleaxe.

This deer was hit at 30yds broadside and it liquified everything north of the diaphragm on a dead center lung hit. Surprisingly, it actually ran right past me as I sat on the ground with my back against a stump.

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BTW….I blew up that photo to see what that dark thing was behind the shoulder. As God is my witness, it was a four leaf clover!! What are the chances…??

didn’t do the buck any good!!