Shock collar use question

Its slow going stopping my puppy from running to anyone she see’s and jumping on them. We cant even let her out at the cabin if the neighbors are out unless on a leash. Today she drilled a jogger that snuck up on me when doing some off leash training. She’s 5 months and knows her commands so she is willingly disobeying to do this. Is this an appropriate scenario for shocking? Is she old enough to ride the lightning? Likely I will train her out of this as she matures but that is not a certainty since Goldens have that overly friendly gene.
The last thing I want to do is abuse the shock collar but this seems like a very good use for one?
Any advise is appreciated.

I have an 8 year old yellow lab female. She used to go bonkers like that when she was younger, jump up sometimes too. The E collar does work in situations like this but my dog wasn’t always wearing hers so she knows when she can get away with more disobedience.

The best way I found to stop the jumping was a knee to the chest. I know it may sound inhumane, but she learned the quickest when she realized that if she jumped, a hard knee was going to greet her. Obviously you can’t make a complete stranger do this but if you tell everyone who regularly sees your dog to do it, it should work. My Mother really didn’t want to knee my dog but I told her that it was important to be very consistent and that if everyone bought into it, it would be more effective.

I haven’t seen her jump on anyone in about 7 years now.

She either gets to jump on everybody or nobody.

Cannot let her do it to anyone. Not kids, etc. Training a dog is often more about training who interacts with the dog!

Knee hard to the chest. After that first bruiser training is as simple as flinching your knee. Young pups can come barreling fast to you, we always anticipated a jump, or even them running into us, so flinch or raise that knee and they’ll learn in a hurry. Big ol’ boot goes a long ways too! In training always be strict in what you desire, and loving in every other way. Tough love teaches fast.

I give other people’s dogs the knee too, whether they like it or not.

I used to work with a professional dog trainer (I’d shoot the ducks, he’d train the dogs). Never in my life would i have though my dad was nice to dogs in regards to discipline, but after being involved in that a few summers…A knee to the chest is pure lov’n!

In regards to a collar, you biggest mistake can be accidental use. DO NOT SHOCK THE DOG ON ACCIDENT, only after and immediately after they’ve done something you would like them not to.

Again, must be diligent is applying discipline quickly and in a standard way for them to learn.

Personally we used the collar for hunting, if they wouldn’t stay close. We didn’t like our dogs thinking they can run their owners.

Collars work well. When they learn it you just have to beep them. Start on low settings.

Thanks guys. Yea I do not hesitate with the knee so consequently she doesnt jump on me or my wife. Just everyone else. I cant get them all to discipline her so Ill wait another month or so then try the collar. That poor jogger this morning was beside himself. Not a dog person. What a pussy…lol

The only problem I see is that she is five months old. I started the dogs I’ve trained at 6 months with the e collar. Has she experienced correction before? If not, start getting her used to it with your “come” command. Put her on a long lead and tell her to come while simultaneously pulling her towards you while mildly correcting her. When she gets to you the stim stops. It really does not take a dog long to learn that when they come to you when told the stimulation stops or doesn’t even occur. Reward her with treats. The more excited she gets the higher the stim might have to get but teach her in a controlled environment.

Once she is used to the fact that if she doesn’t listen she gets shocked the jumping will stop in short order. Pair the stim with a “no jumping” command. When she figures it out stim her every time she jumps. Tell your neighbors that a knee to the chest and a scolding is OK, as long as your neighbors wont overdo it. Be careful…

https://www.gundogsupply.com/free-dvd.html

I think this lady is good. If I can find the CD you could borrow it if you are ever in the Hastings area.

Thanks Dirk. I have read where constant stimulation is applied until a task is complete. I dont intend to make a show dog but I have self taught her pretty well and once I get past the bolting to and jumping on strangers and other dogs I will have it licked. Otherwise I have control. I train her off leash every day in a natural field environment and its going very well. She stays close and is learning her place is in front of me when we are hunting. I really cant complain and I dont want to mess it up after making it this far. I better look into some videos on the various ways to use the e-collar and not just blast her when she’s not minding. She’s doing some pretty advanced stuff with commands and fetching for her age so I cant believe this wont pass. Except that pesky Golden gene…..:)

“If I can find the CD you could borrow it if you are ever in the Hastings area.”

Sure. We could meet at a park and you could be the helpful stranger that gives her the knee!?

Always marry the correction to a command, e.g., “come” followed by a nick if the dog doesn’t immediately head your way. Correction without command = confused dog. We use “down!” with our Springer if he is tempted to jump. He knows what’s coming if he doesn’t obey, either a knee or a shock. It has worked to keep him down, not necessarily calm.

Me personally I used to use a E collar to help with training until I learned how not to, it is an absolutely last resort now. She is a pup treat her as such find a few friends and use the knee to the chest if she is smart she will figure it out.

They learn quickly when the collar is on or not so then you end up having to have a dummy collar or the actual E-collar on all the time.

Every trainer I’ve worked with in the hunt test world will tell you E collars should only be used to re-enforce commands the dog already knows. It should never be used for punishment/determent.

For a dog jumping up on people, a firm knee to the chest followed by whatever your “down” command is is where I would start. Don’t bring the e collar into it until they know the command you are giving them and have that down. I would agree with what was said above is the dog is only 5 months old yet – I definitely wouldn’t get too crazy with the e collar yet. Instead, I’d have them on a 30+ ft check cord and then a new person shows up and they are excited and running towards them and not listening to your commands, you grab on to the check cord and physically correct them and reel them back into you.

No e-collar stimulation yet – too young. You can ruin a dog for good by over using the e collar or applying too much too early. Kind of like intro to gun shots.

I think if you go straight to ecollar that just teaches them that they need to listen when the collar is on. Teach with a check cord and prong collar where you NEVER lose control and then introduce ecollar at same time for awhile until you remove the check cord. The dog doesn’t realize the difference as much that way because it never had a time where it could just do what it wants. We started very early with my dogs with ecollar but it’s not a punishment where your shocking them out of doing something, it’s just the lowest level that reminds them they are still under your control just like a light tug on a leash would.

Do research on avoidance training. I can’t remember the name of the couple that I heard speak on it. I think they where sponsored bu Dogtra? When TriTronics was the only one to trust.
So if a dog can SMELL the difference between a.wild bird and a pen raised bird you don’t think they can SMELL live collar vs dummy?
The key is to have the dog want to be “good”. Some dogs need to have God explain that the man is a god.
A collar is a hammer. You can build or you can wreck. Thus never push the button in anger. Period.
When I stopped working dogs I owned 4 dogs steady to wing / shot / kill & that isn’t client dogs on my string.

This is coming from old school. I trained a # of labs for hunting an Field Trials
back in the late 50s 60s 70s. Before an then when E Collars came on the scene. Back when they 1st came out i saw more
than i wanted to with a few trainers with E Collars.! I saw to many burned out dogs. Cuz of the E Collar.!! . . The number one thing in training back then now an forever is. You have to BE Sure that the dog Knows WHY he is being corrected.!. . Now in modern E Collar world there is a lot of Great books videos etc. The E Collar is the very BEST training tool ever an also the WORST in the wrong hands.! The biggest little word the dog has to know is the word NO.!. . .NO is NO an do not let him/her get away with it. . The last dog i trained was Dean Marshall,s dog Gus. He was a pleasure to train he was one of EZest dogs i have trained over the years. E Nuff of old school. rrr . . Ps Gus loves No Dak.

This is coming from old school. I trained a # of labs for hunting an Field Trials
back in the late 50s 60s 70s. Before an then when E Collars came on the scene. Back when they 1st came out i saw more
than i wanted to with a few trainers with E Collars.! I saw to many burned out dogs. Cuz of the E Collar.!! The number one thing in training back then now an forever is. You have to BE Sure that the dog Knows WHY he is being corrected.! Now in modern E Collar world there is a lot of Great books videos etc. The E Collar is the very BEST training tool ever an also the WORST in the wrong hands.! The biggest little word the dog has to know is the word NO.!. . .NO is NO an do not let him/her get away with it. . The last dog i trained was Dean Marshall,s dog Gus. He was a pleasure to train he was one of EZest dogs i have trained over the years. rrr . . Ps Gus loves No Dak.

river rat randy wrote:

You have to BE Sure that the dog Knows WHY he is being corrected.!

Randy is right and is extremely important when using an e collar. In the case of the jogger did you command the dog no, come or heel and the dog disobeyed? Does the dog understand those commands and performs them when no distractions around? If you believe the dog understands the commands and is ignoring, this behavior left unchecked, the correction is only going to get harder to break this habit. I do not believe in rewarding the dog with treats, your praise for doing the right thing is all the dog should desire. You need to get the dog into more situations that you describe but with the ability to enforce discipline. A check cord constantly worn so you have a chance to control would be one way. In this case an e collar sounds very appropriate. Get the dog into situations where it likes to bolt or jump and command here, heel etc and if ignores provide correction (shock) after clearly giving command. Depending on temperment of dog you may have to increase the shock until you are sure you are getting it’s attention. Always remember the dog wants to please you and earn your praise. When the dog performs correctly go over the top in praise, clapping etc. In this case it sounds like it has a stronger desire to satisfy its urge to bolt after people. Strong correction is most likely needed at this point to overcome this behavior.

no more shock collar use for me, hit the button one time and it stuck on in the blast position, not a happy dog, nor was I. It was a golden retriever.

The best tip I ever got about an e-collar is that it’s used to reinforce commands. It goes (lightning fast): command; no response; shock; dog responds. For example, I’d say “sit” and hit the button a split second after the “t” got out of my mouth if the dog hadn’t moved to respond. It’s not a punishment, ever. It’s a command reinforcement-attention getter. Once the dog knows the command, if you use the collar to reinforce it you’ll see fast improvement. If you are using it to try to train a command the dog doesn’t know it won’t work so well.

You have to do an introduction to the e-collar with any dog, but it’s not tough. Just google a bit if you haven’t already done that. I couldn’t tell from your posts if you’re using it yet or not.

I had a field bred golden who would do the jumping thing. What worked great for me was the sit command. I could get him to drop his butt on the ground in an instant no matter where he was or what he was doing. If you can train your to sit like that, it’s a great command to use when you need the dog to stop moving. Here or heel worked well, too, but I always felt like it was a tougher command to clearly enforce with a shock (so the dog can understand) when the dog was far away from you. And I’d bet you’re right that it will get easier to deal with as the dog gets older. My sit suggestion comes from the young dog and communication factors.

Very appropriate use for a shock collar. Understand, the dog needs to feel that the shock or “correction” is an extension of her master/s. Like you can reach out and touch them no matter where they are. The dog must NEVER associate the shock with the collar or the remote. So you never threaten them by showing them the remote. When not using the shock collar, the dog should wear a collar, provided with the unit, that is a dummy collar. Same feel as the actual shock collar. It has been my experience that you only have to shock a dog with any intensity a few times, then just a tickle will do the job. The shock intensity is adjustable. I do not believe I ever have shocked at dog much past mid intensity. And yes, I have shocked my own neck. I hope this finds you well. I see use shock collars incorrectly all the time and those folks might as well beat their dogs. The collars are for training, not for punishment.

https://www.gundogsupply.com/free-dvd.html

I think this lady is good. If I can find the CD you could borrow it if you are ever in the Hastings area.
[/quote]

Have trained with this lady and she is good. Only thing is your dog will learn when it has the collar on and act differently when it is off.

Couple things we are trying with Oslo are standing on his lead so he can not jump and practicing meeting people. Thats basically having someone come through the door while Oslo sits by my side. Person coming through the door just walks by with no acknowledgement of the dog. This one is taking some work to get through.

Mike W wrote:

Couple things we are trying with Oslo are standing on his lead so he can not jump and practicing meeting people. Thats basically having someone come through the door while Oslo sits by my side. Person coming through the door just walks by with no acknowledgement of the dog. This one is taking some work to get through.

I’ve been working on similar things with Red. Monday evening I heard the door bell ring so I figured it was a good time to practice. I waived to the person to give me a second(same company shows up regularly at supper time trying to sell you on home improvements). What he didn’t know is I was making the dog sit, and sit still, which took a little longer than planned. When I finally opened the door the guy asked if I was wasting his time to train my dog. I said “yes and thank you for your patience”! He just turned with out saying another word, and walked away with a very irritated look on his face. I’m sure it was similar to the look on my face when I finally get these salesman to leave. What goes around comes around bud, ha!

Thats fantastic.

I will only offer this concerning collars,they are meant to ‘ tickle ‘ and re-enforce the command,not to be used as punishment.
Ive had three dogs that were professionally trained in my life and each one at the time of being on loan to me couldnt wait to have the collar put on them,they knew it was time to go to work!! their playtime !!!
that said,each trainer had me do this,put the same collar on my own neck and see how much I would tolerate at different levels of being ‘tickled’

Ive have learned that as a grown man,,, I could either find pleasure in the stimulus or,poop myself silly depending on the level of said stimulus.
I challenge you to find the same thing you expect from your pet.

Not sure I’d put the collar on my neck but have done so on my calf. Turned it up only as high as I was willing to go with the dog. Agree with the “tickle” perspective. However, what constitutes a tickle varies by dog. I’ve had three Springers over the years and they’ve each had different tolerances for the collar. All three have primarily been collar trained to keep them from plunging into a suburban street with no regard for traffic. The first dog was a rescue who had been abused. Lowest level worked fine on him. The second was fur crazy, bunnies and squirrels made him nuts. Had to go hot with him to slow him down. The current dog is in the middle. Again is fur crazy and has added deer to the repertoire. No deer at home but need to keep the collar on him in the woods. One nick per trip tends to keep him focused on grouse rather that furry critters.