SELLER beware

Someone had a Kimber pistol for sale here in the classified with a link to an ad on a gun selling site. I posted my Keltec .380 and the next day I had 13 emails asking about it. I replied to the first email asking for a name, drivers license number and DOB.

I checked her out on the state criminal history website and she was pretty clean with a few driving violations.

Met up with her, checked her d/l with the info she gave me and it matched. She checked the chamber when I handed her the weapon. Since it’s a small handgun, it made sense for a girl to own one. Easy to hide in the purse ect.

There was a guy driving the vehicle though. It bothered me that he didn’t buy or at least check it out for her. I copied down the Yukon’s plate number and contemplated having it checked out by the Washington County Sheriff. (I may have sent them the info via FB but never got an answer..I’ll have to check on that)

Today the Apple Valley PD calls asking about it. It was used in a robbery they said and wanted to see the paperwork.

Damn, there were a bunch of others I could of sold it to… Course the person I bought it from may not be involved in this at all. I don’t have that as a fact.

Dont be hard on yourself. Once you sold it responsibility ended.

suzuki wrote:

Dont be hard on yourself. Once you sold it responsibility ended.

I thought it was used in a crime BEFORE BK bought it. Did I read it wrong?

suzuki wrote:

Dont be hard on yourself. Once you sold it responsibility ended.

NOT with a handgun !!!

It was use in the crime after it was legally sold.

I thought Guns were worth 10x actually amount on the street…. I would be asking for the rest of my money

So, they would have most likely had “her” do a background check if required, and the sale would have still gone through….. I vote to toughen up the background checks!! Sure that would have fixed the problem

ANYTHING can happen after you sold the gun. It could have been sold another 10 times. Or stolen. Don’t beat yourself up about it. You did your due diligence.

Does the MN law differ from IA law on the background check for the selling of a gun?
I’m just trying to understand for knowledge and am NOT taking any issue, please understand.

Sounds like a good reason to never sell a gun. That would suck to have that happen though. Same reason people want to do a vehicle title transfer at the DMV. What about a title for guns like cars? Might work if the owner was held responsible for it.

onestout wrote:

Sounds like a good reason to never sell a gun. That would suck to have that happen though. Same reason people want to do a vehicle title transfer at the DMV. What about a title for guns like cars? Might work if the owner was held responsible for it.

I would be opposed to gun registration, which is what you are proposing.

This is probably the biggest reason I won’t ever sell a handgun.

With that being said, don’t beat yourself up. You tried to do what you could. In the future, just continue to collect the guns and refuse to sell them

I just scanned the bill of sale.

In looking at it I have the
Purchase date listed
Buyers name (verified with D/L)
Date of Birth (verified with D/L)
Drivers License number (verified with D/L)
Her signature
Her email address
Serial number and description of the Keltec and parts sold with it.

License plate number of pick up vehicle.
Make and color

I just double checked her >Minnesota< criminal record and it lists
3 petty driving misdemeanors. She was 21.

First I will agree with the above posters, she may have had it stolen from her or sold it.

On the other hand, I get this queasy feeling when a weapon I once owned was used in a crime. I don’t know what I would be feeling if it was used in a shooting of some kind. Good case for not selling a gun.

Titling handguns? That is a good thought at first but thinking about it further, would that have stopped anything bad from happening? No, just make it easier to back track who owned it when.

Better background checks? Possibly. I checked MN and WI and there wasn’t anything to stop me from selling her the pistol. If there was a way to check Nationally but here again, it’s easy to get someone with a clean record to make the purchase. (I don’t know if that happened in this case, just saying).

Making a mental count, I’ve sold over 30 weapons and never had this happen before. I’m guessing it was because this is only the 3rd sale I’ve made to someone I didn’t know.

Brian, how long of time between the sale and the crime?

If you sold a car to someone legally and they went out and fell asleep at the wheel and had an accident would you feel bad?

Disclaimer, had fell asleep could mean drunk driving, texting accident or anything else.

Not your fault. Continue business as usual.

I want it known right now on the Internet that I do not own any guns.
DT

riverruns wrote:

If you sold a car to someone legally and they went out and fell asleep at the wheel and had an accident would you feel bad?

Disclaimer, had fell asleep could mean drunk driving, texting accident or anything else.

Not your fault. Continue business as usual.

That’s really stretching it. A vehicle’s intended purpose is transportation. A 380 handgun…well? What ultimately is the purpose of a handgun?

Cannot even make that comparison.

Maybe take a moment and ask ourselves why we have them in the first place. Home protection? Self defense? Shooting sports? Or because we can?

More food for thought on this topic.

FWIW, I have 3 pistols.

Brian Klawitter wrote:

Titling handguns? That is a good thought at first but thinking about it further, would that have stopped anything bad from happening? No, just make it easier to back track who owned it when.

Here is some food for thought comparing it to vehicle titles. A big majority of the time when we deal with an unlicensed driver at work they are driving a vehicle who’s title is at least 2 to 3 owners behind on the actual owner. Meaning it has been sold 2 to 3 times without the title being transferred. This is the case with other driVing related crimes as well.
DT

Maybe take a moment and ask ourselves why we have them in the first place. Home protection? Self defense? Shooting sports? Or because we can?

YES…….

DT

Brian, I can kind of relate to the feeling. When I was a punk kid, I put every penny into an old Nova. Nothing special compared to todays standards. But looking back, a ChevyII doing low 12’s/very high 11’s for a highschool kid is pretty fast.
I grew out of it and finally sold it. Was a little nervous about the kid buying it. He was “OK’ driving, but I was never comfortable. His dad and i were along for a test drive. Took it out to a back road where were drag raced between Racine/Kenosha. He got on it a little to see it had some pep, but I wouldn’t encourage him to GET ON IT like I would with possibly someone else. Before we completed the sale, I gave his dad an out. Asked twice if he was ok with his kid buying this and told him my ET times from Great Lakes. He assured me his son was a great driver and it was fine.

Couple months later that car was put into a tree head on. Kid was killed. Killed in a car I built from the frame up. Felt guilty because I had that feeling of no confidence in the kid’s driving. Easy to reflect back and get caught up in the would of, should’ve…..

Ultimately, you and I (and others with similar circumstances) did nothing wrong. We followed the law, took reasonable precautions, and completed what should have been an easy transaction. But there are those few people out there that will be deceitful and make really bad decisions that have negative impacts on other’s lives. Take some time as you should to play it back in your mind and accept you did everything right. You just happened to been one of the victims of a very deceitful person that intended to make a very bad choice

deertracker wrote:

Maybe take a moment and ask ourselves why we have them in the first place. Home protection? Self defense? Shooting sports? Or because we can?

YES…….

DT

YES from me too

Randy Wieland wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>deertracker wrote:</div>
Maybe take a moment and ask ourselves why we have them in the first place. Home protection? Self defense? Shooting sports? Or because we can?

YES…….

DT

YES from me too

Excellent answer. Yes me 3.

take a moment and ask ourselves why we have them in the first place. Home protection? Self defense? Shooting sports? Or because we can?

Yes. X4.

Why cant we compare? The vehicle wasn’t intended too kill. It does more than guns.

Not sure why that quoted me. I tried quoting Andy. Guess I don’t know how the Internet works on my phone. Lol
DT

Brian, next time you sell a gun. Be sure the vehicle they get out of is current with being licenced and in the buyers name.
Shawn

Not taking a shot at you Randy and I’m sure you know that. You just happened to type the story. It seems that we put too much effort into trying to save people from themselves. But we will do it because that’s what good honest people do. I’ll stop now as I’m rambling. Lol I think you know the point I’m trying to make.
DT

Randy Wieland wrote:

But looking back, a ChevyII doing low 12’s/very high 11’s for a highschool kid is pretty fast.
Took it out to a back road where were drag raced between Racine/Kenosha. He got on it a little to see it had some pep, but I wouldn’t encourage him to GET ON IT like I would with possibly someone else. Before we completed the sale, I gave his dad an out. Asked twice if he was ok with his kid buying this and told him my ET times from Great Lakes. He assured me his son was a great driver and it was fine.

Couple months later that car was put into a tree head on. Kid was killed. Killed in a car I built from the frame up. Felt guilty because I had that feeling of no confidence in the kid’s driving. Easy to reflect back and get caught up in the would of, should’ve…..

Ultimately, you and I (and others with similar circumstances) did nothing wrong. We followed the law, took reasonable precautions, and completed what should have been an easy transaction. But there are those few people out there that will be deceitful and make really bad decisions that have negative impacts on other’s lives. Take some time as you should to play it back in your mind and accept you did everything right. You just happened to been one of the victims of a very deceitful person that intended to make a very bad choice

Wow Randy, low 12’s…high 11’s is smoking for a street car. Big block or small block? “Racine/Kenosha”? Did you run that at Union Grove?

Quite a story/lesson here but I get some of this being a “street machine” aficionado from the late 70’s early 80’s.

Tragic ending, but still different from the gun thing. Perhaps the buyers of your car were deceitful, but likely no intent to commit a crime with it.

Brian, sorry I digress here with the side shows…I’m certain this happening was not at all in your good conscience.

deertracker wrote:

Maybe take a moment and ask ourselves why we have them in the first place. Home protection? Self defense? Shooting sports? Or because we can?

YES…….

DT

I suppose that is why I have what I have.

Denny O wrote:

Does the MN law differ from IA law on the background check for the selling of a gun?
I’m just trying to understand for knowledge and am NOT taking any issue, please understand.

Not sure how Iowa is but in MN we can sell guns private party without background checks. Is that what you were asking?
DT

After reading this thread I feel that I need to buy another gun. Thanks a lot Brian!
DT

I will sell you mine DT…after I check your background.

I’m not losing sleep over this…but thanks Randy and all.