VIDEO – Awesome lake trout action on walleye gear!

This past week a Grant Sorensen, Joel Nelson and James Holst took one of their first trips for the year up the north shore looking for big lakers, kings and steelhead.

Here’s the report back, with some video to boot!

Report submitted by James Holst: The bite was very good but it took some serious looking to find them with surface temps in the mid to upper 60’s. Morning of Day 1 we ran 50+ miles in search of cooler water that never materialized. Isle Royale was a complete bust. We finally settled on a reef surrounded by deeper water (500 – 700 feet) near Grand Portage. Once we put the program together the action was fast paced. Day one was better than day two. Day two we had 24 fish in the boat by 1 PM when we finally lost track of things and stopped counting. Mostly lakers but we did get 4 – 6 steelies each day along with a couple kings each day as well.

Big spoons on riggers and big spoons on 832 Lead Core with 2 Oz snap weighs behind the boards worked best. Crankbaits behind boards just weren’t producing for us on this trip hence the switch to spoons and lead behind the boards which is a bit unconventional (at least for us) but after some fine tuning we were off and running. In fact it worked so well we plan to dig into this presentation further in subsequent trips as it should be an ideal presentation any time the fish want spoons over cranks. We only have 2 riggers on my boat but with the lead and snap weight program we can easily run 3 lines per guy and put the lures right where they need to be and the fish seem to prefer the action of the spoons behind the lead over the riggers… at least during this trip.

If you’ve not tried the 832 lead core it really deserves a look due to the depth advantage it has over other lines… while we were getting a feel for how to fish it we were snagging up big spoons in 80 – 90 feet of water using 10 colors of lead with a 2 – 4 OZ snap weight at 2.3 mph (ooops).

It is impressive how much deeper that new lead core will take a bait. On 10 colors we figure we were seeing a minimum if 20 – 30 more feet of depth than with standard lead. Once we got the experimentation behind us and the program together (7 – 8 colors lead with 2 oz snapper when the fish were deep. 5 colors when they were up shallow) the lead core outproduced the down riggers 3 – 1 and allowed us to put out a solid spread pulling spoons without the use of dipseys.

We targeted 60 – 80 feet in the AM or late in the day and 100 – 130 during the day. Video to follow in a couple days. All in all it was a great trip that forced us to hunt down new water and areas we had never fished before using a presentation that was basically a “make it up as we go along” deal for us.

Nice video guys. That 832 LC seems to be the hot ticket. Not only allow you to get down deep in big lakes. It would also allow you to get down deeper in more of a walleye setting depths with less line out.

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Nice video guys. That 832 LC seems to be the hot ticket. Not only allow you to get down deep in big lakes. It would also allow you to get down deeper in more of a walleye setting depths with less line out.

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The 832 lead core represents the first real advancement in lead core since… well, I’m not sure when. In general terms lead core hasn’t changed all that much over the decades. But this stuff is way different. Smaller diameter. Far more sensitive. And you pick up 2 – 3 feet of added running depth per color. Over 5 – 10 colors of lead that’s a huge difference.

One thing guys should note is that due to the added strength of the 832 lead core Sufix doesn’t even offer a 27# version. The 18# line offered is 70% stronger than traditional 18# line making the 832 version at 18# significantly stronger than 27#.

The next big test for me will be pulling cranks on the river to see how it handles current situations. Hopefully I get to kick those tires this weekend before the hot temps roll back in early next week.

James – nice video and great tips on mixing leadcore into your spread.

Same here, I only run two riggers. And when it comes to this time of year, lead is a go to addition for catching fish. That and pound balls (thumper or pump handle rigs).

August can be tough as the water temps are usually the highest (surface and down temps). Reason cranks are not firing too much for the most part, in the upper part of the column.

Next time, when you riggers go dead, have a two color rig ready, and run that off of the rigger (SWR) and see if you keep on getting bit that way. But, remember to keep the ball up a bit higher, as of course, the lead will be sinking your lure lower into the column.

Good job!!

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James – nice video and great tips on mixing leadcore into your spread.

Same here, I only run two riggers. And when it comes to this time of year, lead is a go to addition for catching fish. That and pound balls (thumper or pump handle rigs).

August can be tough as the water temps are usually the highest (surface and down temps). Reason cranks are not firing too much for the most part, in the upper part of the column.

Next time, when you riggers go dead, have a two color rig ready, and run that off of the rigger (SWR) and see if you keep on getting bit that way. But, remember to keep the ball up a bit higher, as of course, the lead will be sinking your lure lower into the column.

Good job!!

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Jim

We’re organizing a return trip where we’ll be armed with more lead core rods rigged with 832 and more snap weights. We were down to the bare necessities out there and couldn’t get more than the two additional lead core rods in play. And we still boated fish like crazy. We can’t help but think what we would have been able to do if we would have been able to get an entire spread out working the way we wanted it. I believe the word for that is PANDEMONIUM.

Thanks for the tip re: the 2 color rig. That’s one of the things I love about fishing Superior. There’s so many ways to present baits and getting them set up correctly in a short amount of time, particularly for those of us that have very limited big water experience, is such an enjoyable challenge. Every new suggestions gets my brain spinning on ways to integrate it into the way we fish.

PS – I might have to pick your brain re: Stannard one of these days. Your trips out there earlier in the summer did not go unnoticed.

Just so I don’t end up with a healthy fine, can you please explain two color rig?
I keep thinking river rigs and dual lures.

Al

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Just so I don’t end up with a healthy fine, can you please explain two color rig?
I keep thinking river rigs and dual lures.

Al

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Every ten yards of lead is referred to as “a color.” A two color rig would be a rod rigged with two colors of segmented lead core. Only one lure would be fished on a two color rig. It basically is a cheap / simple way to squeak out some additional depth.

Or at least that’s what I gathered from Jim’s suggestion. I’m sure he’ll set us both straight if I’m off the mark.

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Just so I don’t end up with a healthy fine, can you please explain two color rig?
I keep thinking river rigs and dual lures.

Al

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Every ten yards of lead is referred to as “a color.” A two color rig would be a rod rigged with two colors of segmented lead core. Only one lure would be fished on a two color rig. It basically is a cheap / simple way to squeak out some additional depth.

Or at least that’s what I gathered from Jim’s suggestion. I’m sure he’ll set us both straight if I’m off the mark.

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Makes sense, thanks much.

Al

Yup, James has it covered. Just two colors on a single rod, also sometimes called a SWR, or secret weapon rig, which I mentioned.

Guys started using it on riggers during the day for when the salmon bite started to wane. Stealth factor on a delivery method (riggers) that can be evasive when the fish get a bit more neutral. The long lead of the lead along with a downrigger ball allows it to be fished at any depth and in a stealthy way. But, also works good at getting spoons down a bit, off boards.

We run a lot of segmented core on the Great Lakes. From a single color up to 5 colors for board lines in the spring. To Full Cores (10 Colors) up to 15 colors for deep summer use. For deep stuff, copper is another alternative, and works great.

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Yup, James has it covered. Just two colors on a single rod, also sometimes called a SWR, or secret weapon rig, which I mentioned.

Guys started using it on riggers during the day for when the salmon bite started to wane. Stealth factor on a delivery method (riggers) that can be evasive when the fish get a bit more neutral. The long lead of the lead along with a downrigger ball allows it to be fished at any depth and in a stealthy way. But, also works good at getting spoons down a bit, off boards.

We run a lot of segmented core on the Great Lakes. From a single color up to 5 colors for board lines in the spring. To Full Cores (10 Colors) up to 15 colors for deep summer use. For deep stuff, copper is another alternative, and works great.

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Thanks for the info Jim. I respect your insights and appreciate your willingness to share it.

As for the riggers… I’m thinking it would be cool to do a trout / salmon show sans riggers to show guys how much can be done with modified walleye gear.

I have always enjoyed watching the videos here on IDO. I have a couple of questions.

First, when running the lead in this video, what length and type of leaders and were you using past the lead core before it was attached to the lure?

Second, in regards to snap weights, is there a difference in the snaps used to attach additional weights? Pros and cons on the different ones?

Attaching the snap, How far back from the lure works best or is it a trial and error method?

Third, In line counters, which series were you using in the Shimano Tekota line counters?

I have played with added weights close to the lure in a fashion inside of say 10 feet many ways. Lead core and I have just shook hands last year for the first time. For my past I have not had to target depths trolling past 24 feet seldom at all to find my targeted fish. You were far exceeding that for your targets,

I’m looking to apply your knowledge and findings to add a new dimension to my targeted fishing if you would help me please.

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I have always enjoyed watching the videos here on IDO. I have a couple of questions.

First, when running the lead in this video, what length and type of leaders and were you using past the lead core before it was attached to the lure?

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20# flouro for lakers. 10-12# flouro for walleyes. We typically run 30′ – 50′ leaders in clear water. Less if the water is stained.

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Second, in regards to snap weights, is there a difference in the snaps used to attach additional weights?

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The ones Grant and I use are the Off Shore snap weight clips. They have a pin between the pads that keep the clip from coming off easily. They work great and I don’t know how they could be improved. http://www.offshoretackle.com/OR16.html

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Attaching the snap, How far back from the lure works best or is it a trial and error method?

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I like to attach the snap weight to the leader before the flouro is knotted to the lead core. I don’t think distance of the snap weight from the lure is all that critical as depth is adjusted by letting more/less lead core out from the reel.

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Third, In line counters, which series were you using in the Shimano Tekota line counters?

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Tekota 600.

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I’m looking to apply your knowledge and findings to add a new dimension to my targeted fishing if you would help me please.

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We’re always happy to answer questions thrown our way. I hope this helps.

Wholly completeness James!
I had a couple of back up questions to apply tomorrow when I logged on, but your quick response has me speechless right now, (can you imagine that? )

A couple of quickies,

I think I saw you were using 12lb lead core and you say to add 20# floro after it. Does the lead core become the weak link? Remember I have limited knowledge of lead core.

You also seemed to have an array of rods, by brands, lengths, and strengths (I would guess). I buy a rod by its feel between my thumb and index finger. I want to feel tingles all the way down to my elbow if you get my drift. When buying a trolling rod people say you don’t need pricy rods (true), but I have yet to see a closet pole (non reactive rod between a tree trunk and something like a willow limb) that I have wanted to purchase. The tip and mid section are separate and completely different as to what the rod is telling to me. This a personal and a huge subject for most everyone butt,,

Do you remember what you were using for rods?

Thank you for your previous quick response James!

Humm, just had a brain fart again, had a couple of other items to ask butt,,, for another day and subject I guess now. I’m done for tonight. Guess old hammers is setting in,

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A couple of quickies,

I think I saw you were using 12lb lead core and you say to add 20# floro after it. Does the lead core become the weak link? Remember I have limited knowledge of lead core.

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Good question. Actually the 832 lead core is 12# diameter but one of the things that set 832 apart from other brands of lead core is that it is 70% stronger at a given diameter. Not to get all “mathy” with this reply but 70% of 12 is 8.4 putting the breaking strength of 832 lead core over 20#. Not that break-offs were much of a concern given where we were targeting these salmon and trout as there’s really no issue with snagging up once you have your depths figured out.

If I was fishing 12# 832 in situations where break-offs / snags were a common issue I would definitely adjust my leader strength so the leader would break well before the lead core parted.

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You also seemed to have an array of rods, by brands, lengths, and strengths (I would guess). I buy a rod by its feel between my thumb and index finger. I want to feel tingles all the way down to my elbow if you get my drift. When buying a trolling rod people say you don’t need pricy rods (true), but I have yet to see a closet pole (non reactive rod between a tree trunk and something like a willow limb) that I have wanted to purchase. The tip and mid section are separate and completely different as to what the rod is telling to me. This a personal and a huge subject for most everyone butt,,

Do you remember what you were using for rods?

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Yup, sure do. Our down rigger rods were Shimano Talora rods in 7’6″ Medium Action. These rods are inexpensive, heavy and almost indestructible. They are also not very sensitive. Actually I would go so far as to say they are not very sensitive at all… but that isn’t needed in a down rigger rod.

The rods we used to fish the lead core are actually some pretty nice rods we regularly use when fishing walleyes to pull boards and/or fish lead core. The rods we used were 10’6″ and 9’0″ St. Croix Eye Con trolling rods. We picked these rods up from Dean @ http://www.anglersguidehq.com and so far we’re really digging them. They’re light weight, very sensitive and they can handle everything from boards to lead core, salmon, walleye and lake trout. In particular the 9’0″ Eye Cons have really impressed me as a very good lead core rod. And the price isn’t bad either.

If you’re looking to get your hands on one of these Eye Cons, give Dean a shout. He’s the rod master guru many of us turn to when it comes time to add a new rod to the arsenal and he’s never steered me wrong yet.

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Thank you for your previous quick response James!

Humm, just had a brain fart again, had a couple of other items to ask butt,,, for another day and subject I guess now. I’m done for tonight. Guess old hammers is setting in,

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Happy to do it. Fire away if anything else jumps to mind.

James, when you say 12# your refering to diameter and not breaking strenght of the line?
I think that’s where some of the confusion lies..maybe.

Also reading off the great lakes forums, they tend to lean towards 9-10′ rods for riggers, seems better hook sets as there is a bit less slack when tripped, and it does make landing a fish off the back easier to imho.

Not sure about the hook setting, but they are easier to land fish with in my limited exprience. fwiw
Al

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James, when you say 12# your refering to diameter and not breaking strenght of the line?

I think that’s where some of the confusion lies..maybe.

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I’m referring to what you’ll see on the box when you pull it off the rack. Sufix 12# lead core is labeled 12# lead core. No confusion there. It does however have a higher breaking strength than 12#. People should know that. This is why Sufix doesn’t make a 27# lead core… they’re 18# is stronger than 27# offered by every one else.

Sufix does only make two options in their lead core. 12# and 18# and I’m told they have the same dive curves so you really can’t go wrong even if you shop with your eyes closed. Just get the Sufix for the added depth it gives you and you’re good to go.

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Also reading off the great lakes forums, they tend to lean towards 9-10′ rods for riggers, seems better hook sets as there is a bit less slack when tripped, and it does make landing a fish off the back easier to imho.

Not sure about the hook setting, but they are easier to land fish with in my limited exprience. fwiw

Al

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I’ve given rod selection a lot of thought and I admit it, I’m weird when it comes to stuff like this. I want it to be harder for me… easier for the fish. I like the challenge. Now that doesn’t mean I’d tolerate for a second a poor hooking percentage or any set up that didn’t allow me to properly handle a big fish.

I do have what would be considered prototypical Shimano downrigger rods at 8’6″. I never use them any more. They’re just too long and too heavy for my liking and they take so much of the fight out of the fish that I’ve made the decision to find alternatives.

One of the things I like to do is swap in some of my slower action 7′ – 8′ bass rods with small baitcasters loaded with braid. Now that’s a fun fight! Those Talora rods might be a favorite of charter captains but I’d rather enjoy the fight a bit more so that’s why you’ll see us swapping in some higher end graphite rods for down rigger duty quite often. It doesn’t seem to cost us any/many fish and getting to feel every last thing the fish does while fighting it with a rod that doesn’t feel like a rug beater keeps me coming back for more.

Might those shorter rods cost us fish if we were targeting big kings? Maybe. Possibly even likely. But that just hasn’t been the case with the big lakers and 4 – 8 lb steelhead and kings we’ve been catching.

We must be doing something right if we’re able to put 25 – 35 fish a day in the boat.

Thanks for all the input and interaction on this topic guys. I’m soaking up anything and everything that comes up in this threads. I’ve got a lot to learn and I’m enjoying the heck out of the process. Throwing ideas back and forth like this definitely speeds up the process.

Ok, thanks.
Personally I’d like my line manufactur to be a bit more truthful in their ratings, but whatever works for ya.

I like staying light as I can and that’s why I’m using a dual planer set up instead of inlines and dipsy’s.
To each their own and I still have a big chunk of learning curve to go through.

Good thread, thanks.

Al

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Ok, thanks.

Personally I’d like my line manufactur to be a bit more truthful in their ratings, but whatever works for ya.

Al

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Right on the box… 70% stronger. Huge letters. Bold face. Contrasting colors. How much more “truthful” do you think they could be?

70% stronger than what?

Right below it says 12# if it breaks at 20# than imho it should say 20# not 12#, more of that advertising gimick stuff imho

fwiw I like suffix and they’re not the only who seem to be doing this, watch knot wars and your see many are under rated.

Never mind, this probably should have been a seperate thread.

Al

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70% stronger than what?

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12# diameter line.

Please forgive… I’m just funnin’ with you.

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70% stronger than what?

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12# diameter line.

Please forgive… I’m just funnin’ with you.

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No prob, but in some warped way, it seems 70% should be less than 12#…

Have a good weekend James..

Al

What is the model tekota reel you are using?

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What is the model tekota reel you are using?

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TEK600LC

Dean turned me on to them when my Daiwas kept failing and they’re a much better reel. I’m slowly adding them to the arsenal. I did just also add a pair of the 300’s for handheld or long line trolling apps and they’re a great fit in the hand and butter smooth.

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Have a good weekend James..

Al

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TGIF, Al.

I picked up two TEK500LC from Dean last fall,and fell in love with them. I suppose they would be to small for lead core line though.

Now I have several extra Diawas

thanks James

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I picked up two TEK500LC from Dean last fall,and fell in love with them. I supose they would be to small for lead core line though.
Now I have several extra Diawas

thanks James

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I don’t think they’d be too small at all. Forgive me for sounding like a 832 lead core fanboy here but you can get a lot more of the 832 on a spool than the old stuff. I’m thinking about trying 832 on my 300’s to see how many colors I can get on there. When I do, should be this weekend, I’ll shoot you a PM on it. IF I can get 5 colors and a bunch of braid backing on a 300 that’s the reel I’ll use for river lead coring due to how small and light the reel is.

Looking forward to hearing the results.
thanks again

Enjoy the weekend

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I picked up two TEK500LC from Dean last fall,and fell in love with them. I supose they would be to small for lead core line though.
Now I have several extra Diawas

thanks James

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I don’t think they’d be too small at all. Forgive me for sounding like a 832 lead core fanboy here but you can get a lot more of the 832 on a spool than the old stuff. I’m thinking about trying 832 on my 300’s to see how many colors I can get on there. When I do, should be this weekend, I’ll shoot you a PM on it. IF I can get 5 colors and a bunch of braid backing on a 300 that’s the reel I’ll use for river lead coring due to how small and light the reel is.

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FANBOY!!!

Actually, I picked some up 2 weeks ago from Marine General on a whim because it appeared to be the best quality lead core they had. I have still yet to get it on a reel.

Now, I picked up the 18 lb because I plan on using it strictly on the Great Lakes, do you know offhand if this has the same depth rating? Do you think the 18 lb has any disadvantages?

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do you know offhand if this has the same depth rating? Do you think the 18 lb has any disadvantages?

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I have been told that the 12# and 18# have the same depth curves. Can’t think of any major disadvantages right off the top of my head to be honest. You might get less of it on a reel given there is a difference in diameter of 0.22 for the 12# and 0.27 for the 18# but it must not be that big of a deal if the dive curves are the same.