Roofing Question

We got hit by hail at the cabin (Cumberland WI) about 3 – 4 weeks ago on a Saturday night. It damaged all vehicles that were outside in the area. By Monday I had a roofing contractor from the Twin Cities (Friend of a friend thing) contact me saying he would be up in the area and wanted to know if I wanted him to inspect my roof for damage. I don’t really know any roofing contractors up there so I said sure. He indicated I did have damage. I contacted the insurance adjuster and he said there wasn’t any damage. The roofing contractor met me at the cabin again the following Saturday. The had inspected the roof again and took pictures of the damage and had circled it with chalk. They emailed me to pictures. I forwarded them to my adjuster. The adjuster thanked me for the pictures and indicated he couldn’t get on the side of the roof the damage was on and asked me for an estimate. The contractor took about a week to get the estimate. The insurance adjuster accepted the estimate minus the Overhead and Profit they included at the end of the estimate. This was 10% overhead and 10% profit (about 1300.00 total). The adjuster told the contractor they wouldn’t pay that and never have. The insurance cut me a check written to me and the contractor. I have not signed any contracts with the contractor yet.

I also referred the contractor to the neighbors on both sides of me and my parents (1/4 up the lake). All 3 need new roofs.

Here are my questions. The estimate the contractor gave has the roof dimensions at 32 L X 29 W. I didn’t realize it right away that my cabin is 36 X 24. His measurements were off by about 6 ft. I asked the contractor about this as soon as I noticed this. I already have the check from the insurance minus the profit, overhead, and 500.00 deductible. I don’t think the insurance company plans to issue any additional payments for the roof. Question 1 – Should I worry about the bad measurement costing me money. Should I try to have the contractor prepare a new estimate and resubmit it to the insurance now before proceeding with the new roof?

The contractor expects me to give him the entire check before moving into the Production phase. He says this is standard practice. I told him I will not pay the entire amount up front. I will pay for materials up front, but won’t pay the entire amount up front. I told him I would meet him on site when the job is complete with the remaining payment. I learned a lesson when we built the cabin from the Plumbing and Heating contractor. I paid him in full and had to wait for over 6 months for him to come back and put the drain vent through the roof and plumb my kitchen sink. I didn’t have any monetary leverage to get him to come back sooner. Question 2 – Am I being unreasonable by not wanting to pay him the entire amount up front? I told him I appreciated his effort for getting me to this point and want him to do the work. I also told him I didn’t expect this to cost me any more out of pocket than my deductible. I told him I would not pay him the entire amount up front and to let me know if this was going to be a deal breaker and if so, I would contact other roofing contractors. I’m waiting for his reply. Thoughts? Thanks for feedback.

Don’t pay him in full for various reasons. I work for myself and would never ask for full payment up front. A 1/3rd down is reasonable on labor with the amount or the roofing materials added to the 1/3rd. I tell myself and customers when they offer money upfront that what happens if I get in an accident and something happens, their chances of getting their money back is alot harder because they then have to come to my wife and get it. Tell the contractor you’ll get the supplies and have them delivered or get them yourself, then you’ll give him the 1/3rd down on his labor. and the rest when hes done.

The measurements he gave you may be for the starter shingles and the caps he will need to cap the roof off plus a few others, hes not really over that far on his amount of shingle supplies. Its ok to use the old drip edge if it looks ok, it doesn’t hurt. Ask him if his bid included ice and water shield he may need to start his first row to protect against of ice dams. A third down on his labor and you or him buying materials isn’t out of line and they way things are done around here. By law around here hes allowed that amount to get started. The size of the roof with tear off being done is atmost a 3 day job, I could do it myself in 3 days including cleanup… Hope this helps you

I don’t have time to type this but I agree with most of Dans comments. Give me a call 262-617-5161. I’ve been a general contractor since the late 80’s and have been through all of what your experiencing

O and P is generally only paid when there are 3 or more accepts of construction being handled. Roofing, siding and windows would be 3.

As for the bad measurements, DO NOT ACCEPT THIS. I have run into a few situations where a contractor doing storm damage wrote a quote for xxx amount of squares and they then stopped when material ran out. Only work off a CONTRACT that describes the work to be performed and quality of materials. When I used to do storm repair I never specified the quantities to be used in the contract. (that info is found in the scope of loss if you want to know the number) We worked for the proceeds that we agreed upon with the insurance company.

The check was written to the contractor to keep you from jumping ship and finding another after the leg work of the claim was done. To be completely honest, I would not even work with an ins company on the homeowners behalf unless there was a contract specifying that if I came to an agreement on cost with the Ins Co then I was instilled to do the work. (I learned HO’s will try to get you to do the claim work then find another company to do it cheaper and pocket the extra, also known as fraud…) Many times the mortgage company will too be on the check if there is a mortgage on the property.

Half down can be understandable but never paid in full. If it sounds like a fishy tale, it most likely is. Feel free to PM with any other specific questions.

The whole situation sounds like a cluster to me. Questionable damage, questionable contractor practices, bad measurements, etc.

No you’re not being unreasonable by not paying everything up front. That’s an invitation to disaster.

I wouldn’t walk away from this cluster, I’d run. If the roof isn’t leaking, what’s the rush? Take your time, find a contractor you are comfortable with, and get it done right.

It seems like every time a hail storm happens, people get in a big rush to get their roof replaced, like, tomorrow. If the wind took shingles off and it’s leaking, that’s one thing, but if the roof isn’t compromised where water is getting through, then slow down and get it done right. Nothing will give you more long-term headaches than a botched roofing job.

Grouse

For years I have questioned what “hail” damage to shingles really is. I always figured it was more contractor fraud than anything else. My insurance agent agrees. The only way consumers find out their roof is damaged is a surprise visit by a contractor and this practice only became popular in recent years. Usually these jackals specialize in storm chasing. Just about every roof around here including mine has been replaced for this reason. Those that have not aren’t leaking.

Never pay a contractor in full before the work is done. Especially ones that have contacted you first.

Kirk, you remember I did this last year. We did not collect in full to begin but usually 1/2. Most insurance companies also only paid for the materials in the beginning and required a contractor’s receipt of job completion (sometimes an inspection by city worker) before paying the remaining portion of the claim.

I’m very surprised based on my experience that this is all transpiring this way.

To get more detailed, often we put together quotes for the homeowner to use in filing a claim. These were often roughly put together, measurements from the ground, etc. Once the insurance company approved the claim and sent their adjustor to confirm, we worked from the estimate put together by the insurance adjustor. If we felt is was ok, we went with it, wrote up a contract, had the homeowner sign, and took 1/2 down. If we felt the insurance adjustor missed something, we filed an addendum with insurance company and waited for that to be approved. Once that came in, we again had a detailed contract for the homeowner to sign.

The way you’ve described this is way out of order. If I were you, I’d go back to the contractor and ask him to now draw up a final contract, including detailed measurements, amount of underlay, number of pipejacks, chimneys, vents, ridge caps, metal valleys, yada yada…. and get him to agree to a price. If you have that amount of money from the insurance, you’re good. If not, you both work together to file an addendum with insurance. Do not have him start to work until you have this nailed down.

The other way he can do it, is to agree to full replacement for the $$ from insurance. That is fine too as long as you agree to basic components such as shingle type, color, amount of underlayment, are gutters included/not included, etc. Call me if you’d like.

Eric

new measurments. 25% down payment is acceptable. Without money left to be payed your left hoping they don’t F you, with no recourse if they do other than time and expensive court cases for a loss in the end anyways.

Thanks a lot for all the great information. The roofing contractor didn’t expect the insurance to cut a check for the full amount. He indicated I would only need to pay half the amount up front. He also indicated I should not expect to pay anything out of pocket (other than deductible). So far, he has done a great job meeting me when planned and also meeting with the insurance adjuster when necessary. He doesn’t seem to concerned about the bad measurement. I would expect this to be corrected on the contract I will need to sign prior to money being exchanged.

As much as it sucks to pay for insurance, I sure am glad I had it. New roof (6500.00), my Yukon damage (2100.00), my wife was using father inlaws Ford Flex (5000.00). I will gladly pay my deductibles.

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I think the to and from time to work would be a deal breaker from Sydney AU.