Zumbro River Regs – Does Anyone Care?

I’ve been away from the site for a while and as I look over the the recent posting topics, I’m not seeing anything about the article in the Post Bulletin discussing the Zumbro River Regs. Here we have two seperate groups taking a stand on the need for smallmouth fishing regulations. I have to admit that I am surprised not to see anyone taking a side or asking questions about the topic.

Personally, my feelings a bit mixed about the regulations and I am rather curious about this “Public Anglers Coalition”. Who are they and where are they from?

I checked a couple of other Minnesota forums and I’m not seeing anything there either. Maybe no one really cares one way or the other. If that’s the case, both groups will have a hard time proving their local support to the DNR.

I would be the first to admit, I find it very disappointing that there is a dispute about the fishing regulations. Hind site tells me that if the original regulation request had been handled differently, I doubt we would be reading about it in the paper again.

Maybe In-Depthangling would rather stay out of the fray and avoid the topic. Afterall, we all would rather be fishing in one manner or another. I was just curious to see some opinions of Rochester area fishermen on what may become a mess before it’s done.

Might just be a case of poor education on the subject as this is the first I’d heard about the possibility of new regs.

Hey Lew, I watch the MN DNR website and they send me updates…in checking…there’s nothing listed…

What’s up?

Its not lack of care here either. I haven’t heard a thing about it. Maybe you could post a link?

I have heard that some group wants the regs below the dam on Lake Zumbro dropped or something but I haven’t heard anything more or seen anything about it. I personally can’t see why they would want to drop the regs when the regs are suppose to make it a better fishery. The regs need to be allowed to go the full alloted time. In my mind bass are a sport fish only and should be released if not going on the wall. Can you please direct us to where we can find out more? Thanks.
Thanks, Bill

The Zumbro has a special place in my heart as well. Unfortunately I am also uneducated regarding the reg dispute?
Please post a link so we can all educate ourselves.
What portion of water are we talking?
cheers

I don’t read the PB very often…this is the first I’ve heard of this. A link (if possible) would be great.

I read the article in the Post Bulletin and it’s been awhile, but hopefully I will be able to state something close to what the article said. Basically some people from the area have formed a group to try to get the special catch and release regs from the zumbro dam to zumbro falls dropped. These regs were put in place with a plan to decide in 10 years whether they improved the numbers and size or not. At that time a decision would be made to extend, modify, or drop the regs.

Evidently this group met with the DNR last year and the DNR thought they came to an agreement with them to make a decision on the regs in 7(?) years instead of 10.

The group is currently trying to get the special regs dropped immediately. I believe they have a petition signed by some number of people and are working with area legislators to pass legislation that would force the DNR to drop the regs. I believe there was a quote from someone in the group that they think a bunch of people from outside the area forced this on the DNR and the local people.

I’m trying to do this from memory of reading the article which I believe was in the Post Bulletin at the beginning of the year, so my apoligies if I got any of this wrong.

I wasn’t planning to get too excited about this until I heard that the DNR was actually considering changing the regs back to catch & keep. I assumed there would be some meetings and a chance to comment at that time.

My personal opinion is that the Zumbro could use the catch & release regs right now. It seemed to be going downhill the last few years. Hopefully the legislators will stay out of the business of making fishing regulations as opposed to the professionals at the DNR, and the DNR will stand by the regulations they decided were needed in the 1st place. Otherwise, what’s to stop people from getting every special regulation in the state dropped.

ok Lew…now that the discussion is started, let’s hear your opinion.

Mark pretty much said the just of it, but if anyone wants to read the whole article here it is.

GROUPS CLASH OVER ZUMBRO SMALLIES
Thu, Jan 12, 2006

Outdoors
By John Weiss

The Post-Bulletin

A long-simmering clash of fishing philosophies is ready to boil over catch-and-release smallmouth fishing on the Zumbro River from the base of the Lake Zumbro Dam to Zumbro Falls.

Several years ago, smallmouth anglers, led by the Southeast Minnesota Smallmouth Alliance, convinced the Department of Natural Resources to impose total catch-and-release regulations in that stretch. The idea was to have one place in the region where there was a better chance of catching a trophy smallmouth.

Now, a new group called the Southeast Minnesota Public Anglers Coalition has formed to get rid of that regulation. It says the change was made to satisfy “out-of-area elitist catch-and-release advocates,” while those who live in the area are left out.

They are seeking legislative support for a bill that would get rid of all special smallmouth regulations on that stretch and, after five years, hold a public hearing to talk about any changes. Those changes, they say, must be based on the rights of the angling public to harvest fish based on biology. They want to “deter special interest organizations from politicizing the MnDNR hearing process.”

This group is an offshoot of one that formed near Willmar, Minn., over special walleye regulations in Green Lake. The group got the Legislature to get rid of those regulations.

The new group formed locally “was made necessary when the DNR dismissed the primary stakeholder requests and aligned itself with the Smallmouth Alliance,” according to Jim Kehoe, the group’s legislative liaison.

The group believes the Smallmouth Alliance crowded the hearings and basically forced the regulations, despite a lack of biological need for them. Instead, the local catch-and-release is a social regulation, the group contends, based on the desires of one group to control a public resource.

The conflicting philosophies leave the Legislature and DNR caught in the middle. Neither particularly wants to be there.

State Sen. Dave Senjem of Rochester said he has been asked to introduce the bill this spring. While he hasn’t made a decision, he said legislative action should be a last resort for such decisions. “It probably is not the best place” for the issue to be resolved, he said. Such decisions should be made locally, with anglers and the DNR meeting to find some kind of common ground. If it gets into the Legislature, it will get political, he said.

He met with both sides, and the DNR, last fall and thought a DNR compromise would keep the issue from boiling over into the Legislature, he said.

Kevin Stauffer, DNR area fisheries supervisor in Lake City, was surprised when he heard about what the new group was trying to do. He thought the compromise was a good one. It would have kept special regulations in place for two more years to give the DNR time to find out just how well they work.

The DNR usually wants eight to 10 years to fully evaluate such regulations, but under the compromise, the catch-and-release rules would have been in place for just five years.

The proposal would have special regulations through 2007, with a creel census that year, as well as electroshocking, followed by public hearings in 2008, he said.

The DNR agreed to the regulations because of public input, he said. “There are people who definitely wanted the regulations,” he said. “The people were generally supportive of it.”

Stauffer said he doesn’t know what the DNR’s position would be in the matter went to the Legislature.

To learn more about Southeast Minnesota Public Anglers Coalition legislative initiative, call Jim Kehoe of rural Pine Island at (507) 356-4622; for more on the group, send an e-mail to [email protected]

Did the regs put in place make a difference as determined through DNR studies comparing size structure and number of bass present before the regs were put in place VS. present day?

To me, this is the only thing that matters >>> If the regs made for a higher quality bass fishery, keep them. If the regs did little or nothing to positively influence size structure and overall numbers, get rid of them.

I would assume the DNR did extensive studies on this stretch of water before the regs went into place so they had some comparative data to base their descision on?

I don’t know if the DNR did any extensive research on the plunge pool below the Lake Zumbro Dam which is the primary focus of conflict. There were local fishermen that had been “accepting” of the catch and release regs on smallies until the ownership of Mac’s Park Place changed hands and the fee to fish increase made oil barons envious. My impression is that now that it cost more to fish the area, those anglers paying the fee don’t want to throw back potential frying pan fixin’s (not everyone holds the smallie sacred).

Now, for my opinion. . .I was a part of the group that advocated the current catch and release regs. I understand and respect those folks that worked so hard for this regulation. I also believe that if left in alone, this reg will prove to be very good for the smallies and smallmouth fishing. Now for my But . . .had a slot limit been put in place for the plunge pool we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now. Those of us fishing for the pure pleasure of fishing are in the minority. The average angler doesn’t care about a trophy fish unless that fish happens to be on his own line. That same average angler probably has a much lesser chance to catch that trophy fish due to equipment, skills and lure selection. Finally, for the new owner of Mac’s. He may have done as much for protecting fish in the plunge pool as any DNR reg. By significantly raising the price to access the fishing area he may have served to limit the willingness to fish the area. This would be something else for the DNR to verify.

As I mentioned in the original post, I am curious to learn more about the coalition. I know the one individual named in the article, but who makes up the rest of the coalition and where do they come from? Are they local fisherman like those that make up the smallmouth group that worked hard to get this regulation?

The legislature is not the place to resolve this issue. Let the DNR do it’s job. If the DNR has already agreed to a compromise with the parties involved, those parties need to respect that process and wait out the agreed upon time.

Thank you all for taking the time to review this post. Thanks also to Mark P for his excellent recall and for FishinSmallies for taking the time to track down and post the original article. Forums such as this are an opportunity to share our opinions and learn more about what our fellow fishermen are thinking. I won’t hate you for wanting to catch and eat fish (even bass), I just want us all to respect the laws and fish within the laws that are in place so that fishing will be a pleasure for generations to come. There is a process in place. It is a slow process and frustrating for those of us in a hurry, but this process is intended to protect the fishing future for all.

“The DNR usually wants eight to 10 years to fully evaluate such regulations, but under the compromise, the catch-and-release rules would have been in place for just five years.

The proposal would have special regulations through 2007, with a creel census that year, as well as electroshocking, followed by public hearings in 2008, he said.”

I would interpret the preceeding comments from the PB article to mean that the special regulations have only been in effect for 3 years and 2007 would be the 5th year when the DNR would do it’s sampling. Therefore, I don’t think the regs have been in effect long enough to determine whether or not they are improving the fishery. Smallmouth aren’t overly prolific, this part of the state is well known for spring floods that can wipe out a full years hatch, and smallmouth are slow growing. I assume those are the types of reasons that the DNR likes to wait 8-10 years to make an evaluation of the effectiveness of the regulations.

I also assume that since the reg’s haven’t been in place for 5 years yet that the DNR hasn’t done creel surveys and electro shocking to make a determination either. It seems a shame to drop the reg’s now before they have had a legitimate “chance” to improve the fishery. After having them in place for 3 years or so already it seems like waiting another 3 would be a decent comprimise. If they are dropped now nothing will have been learned.

I haven’t fished the Zumbro enough in the last 2 or 3 years to have much of an opinion on how the fishery is compared to 3-5 years ago. I used to fish it quite a bit, but at least for me the smallmouth fishing had been deteriorating on that portion of the Zumbro so I started fishing other locations more often.

I would be interested to hear others opinions on how the fishing has been in that stretch from the dam to zumbro falls over the last 5 years or so. Have the numbers seemed like they have been declining, improving, stayed about the same? How about the size?

Like I said, I thought the fishing had declined considerably before the special regs were extended to include the plunge pool and the stretch from the “green bridge” down to zumbro falls. What is everyone else’s impression?

I can’t comment on the status of the fishing on that strech of the stream the last couple years as I haven’t really fished it hard (more than a couple times per year) since the summer of 2003.

What I would like to know is who makes up this group that opposes these special regs? I don’t know if the term “locals” categorizes it enough …..is it the couple dozen people that have campers right at Mac’s? is it the same group of Hmong that tried to over turn the new trout regs last year? Some other group?

and how do these people get away with saying that the group that “forced” these regulations into place are just a bunch of purist from the cities? I believe it was SEMSA that was pushing for this change in regs……don’t they meet in Zumrbo Falls and are comprised of local fisherman from SE MN?

Personally I am for the special regs to help create a better smallmouth bass fishery in this area. The time needed to see an improvement set by the DNR is not completed yet so why not wait to see if it is helping. If its cut short then we will never know for sure. Bass are a sport fish to most so why not go for having a chance at a great smallmouth fishery. It just makes sense to me.

Thanks guys for the recap and for finding the article. MUCH appreciated. Thanks.
Thanks, Bill

My understanding is that a group known as “Public Anglers Coalition” was involved with a regs change on Green Lake near Spicer. Green Lake had catch and release regs on smallies also. As far as SEMSA is concerned, this group meets monthly in Rochester. They formerly met at Sandy Point Supper Club. Though the mailing list may include fishermen from outside the immediate area, the core of SEMSA lives, works and fishes in SE Minnesota.

By the way, SEMSA did not “force” any reg changes. SEMSA worked within the DNR process. They educated the public with a booth at the Olmsted County Fair, garnered support via a petition drive and attend public meetings to express their reasoning and support of the catch and release regulations.

Lew, is there a website or something where a person can get more information on the SEMSA?
Thanks, Bill

I was also part of SEMSA at the time and participated in the public input meetings before the regs were initiated. There were studies conducted by the DNR prior to changing the regulation and SEMSA also worked with the DNR by completing fishing logs and submitting scale samples to assist with follow up studies.
SEMSA is totally local group and while there were a couple folks (as in 2 or 3) from the metro area who attended one meeting and supported C&R, 95% of the attendees and SEMSA lives in Olmsted and Goodhue counties.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to have catch and release regs for smallies on 12 or 13 miles of river. The Root and Cannon are still without C&R regs as far as I know as is all but 12-13 miles of the Zumbro.

Bill, I have passed your name on to a couple of SEMSA members. I hope they take the time to contact you. To my knowledge the local organization does not have a web site. This web site will hook you up with more information about the Smallmouth Alliance overall.

http://www.smallmouth.org/

Thanks Lew. If my memory is correct I think Tim H. [can’t remember how to spell his last name] started the group. Tim is one hec of a smallmouth guide and guides on the upper Mississippi River alot. I believe they are very active in habitat inmprovements and really have a passion for smalies. Will be interesting to learn more about their organization. ”Thanks”
Thanks, Bill

I have not heard about this.
I used to live 1/2 mile for Macs 25 years ago.
I would like to think the speacial regs will help the fishery Look at Pool 2 on the MISSISSIPPI.
I have not fished over there for 25 years.
And I can say probably will not in the future. However I am for helping any fishery for the better. I like to catch smallies but they taste like carp.. Give me a good walleye any day.
Thanks for bringing this to light.

Tim Holschlag is likely the name that you are thinking of Bill.
He is a smallmouth icon
He is a staff member at Midwest Fly Fishing, among his numerous other endevours.
cheers

Tims the guy. Thanks. I couldn’t think of how his last name is spelled and didn’t wantr to spell it wrong.
Thanks, Bill

Spent a little time reading this.

What well needed “press” the smallmouth is getting from this!!!!

Personally, the regs are awesome…however the whole river needs some form of slot or one over etc.. And with that would be a need for increased….more DNR patrolling…ensuring these rules are kept.

Also as mentioned an even better( in my eyes) smallmouth river system…the Root River system…needs similar protection and awareness brought it’s way.

The irony of this form of attention will only bring more anglers to these waters..so a sense of urgency has now been ear tagged.

What we have access to inregards to smallmouth fishing in SE MN, really is world class..I’d be up to helping when I can.
However, I would like to see some movement towards the Root for protection etc.

Thanks LEW and yes I care!

Jim

Agree with you 100 percent about the Root, Jim. I live just a couple miles from it S.E. of Chatfield and it is a great smallie river. Would like to see stretches of it protected some way or other. I know there are a lot of people that fish it pretty heavy and keep everything they catch.

Welcome Jim. Great to have you with us. Please feel free to share and post all you want.

Below is a link to some information that I received from SEMSA.

Thanks, Bill

SE MN. Quality Smallmouth Regs Are Being Attacked

Senator Steve Murphy of Red Wing has introduced legislation that would repeal all special smallmouth regulations on the Zumbro River.

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin/bldbill.php?bill=S3021.0.html&session=ls84

If you really do care, now is the time to send your MN state senator and representative an email letting them know that you oppose this legislation and it’s a mistake to take away the DNR’s ability to use sound science as a tool for fisheries management.

It would be quite the selfish and backwards step to repeal the smallmouth regulations from the Zumbro. IMO, of course. Hopefully you agree.

Thank you VERY much for the update AND link to where we can e-mail our thoughts on this. He doesn’t even live in the area close to this part of the river as the Zumbro dumps into the Mississippi River on pool 5, NOT by Red Wing. The DNR has special regulations on the Zumbro below the dam on Lake Zumbro to create a great smallmouth fishery for us and theres a group trying to get the regs lifted which means harvesting fish. Smallmouth are great fighters, pound for pound the best fight there is, and having a great smallmouth fishery here makes smallmouth fishermen very lucky fishermen. Please keep us posterd of any updates, meetings, etc concerning this that anyone comes across. Thanks.
Thanks, Bill

Please take the time to write to your State Representative and ask him or her to vote against S.F. No. 3021, ZUMBRO RIVER FISHERY MANAGEMENT PLAN.

I had heard through the grapevine about this..

I live in Zumbrota and do much of my hunting in the mazeppa area, and most of my fishing…

I mean 90% of it, on the Lake(zum) and the river…

With the risk of sharing the best spot…

THAT IS, one of the best fisheries I have fished…

I am all for catch and release so i am somewhat bias, but there are plenty of Cats and suckers that people can keep.. I have eatin a few cats outta there and they are mighty tasty.. but everything else(gamefish) goes right back in..

over the past 5 years, since the regs. it has only gotten better, more and bigger fish..

I love that stretch of water, and hope we can keep it healty and keep it growing for years to come…

You can bet I will be writing…

PLEASE DO THE SAME!!!!

I read on another website that Senator Steve Murphy has decided not to proceed with the bill to remove the special regulations from the Zumbro.

Thanks DA and anyone else who sent off e-mails to Sen Murphy and their representatives in support of the special regulations.