Red Lake Walleye at Cub Foods

I would suggest to everyone here that empathy goes a long way in discussions like this. I’m not only talking about the folks on the reservation but also the ones you are having discussions with on this board.

It’s ok agree, disagree, argue, etc. But understand everyone comes from different backgrounds and circumstances that shape our opinions. Remembering to be empathetic will help us stay respectful.

Not try to get on my soapbox but wanted to bring some levity to what seems like a contentious discussion.

Enjoy this long weekend.

DaveB wrote:

I have a Cub in my back yard and walk over for most of my shopping. They are advertising Red lake Walleye this week for $9.99/lb. I think I should be offended by this, but I don’t know how offended. I was not happy that one of the first actions after the fishing ban was lifted was to open a cannery. I was not happy that Mystic Lake help pay for the building of this business. I understand the “value” of the resource to the community and I appreciate the fact that there isn’t a whole lot of opportunities in this area for economic development.

How do others feel? Should we be bothered by this? Does it matter if they come from Canada or Red Lake (assuming the resource is properly managed this time and is sustainable)?

Thanks for your opinions

I think 9.99 is a great price. Thanks Daveb for the heads up. I’m happy to see a Minnesota company delivering a high quality product. I’m sure the people running the company realize that if they over fish they will have no product to sell. I can only assume they are not idiots. We have no authority to limit what they catch or stop them from fishing. Have a great weekend.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Timmy wrote:</div>
There is no reason an adult on the Rez can not leave and better themselves.

Yes there is. The part about leaving the Rez that you don’t understand is that by doing this, they are also leaving behind an important aspect of their culture–your tribe and the land.

You are thinking only in economic terms and the issue of culture clearly does not even enter your thinking. Yes, yes, I know, culture isn’t real, it’s all touchy-feely, kumbaya crap. But there you are, you said there was no reason, but there’s a reason.

I spend some time on a Rez every year. I grew up with Indians. My father helped educate them. We harvested wild rice with them every year. What I’ve learned about Indians is they aren’t like you and I.

I also find it amusing and troubling, this “self-made man” theory so many people have where they got where they are purely from their own efforts and they paid their own way.

Bullcrap. Just to use the example of education, every child who has graduated high school in Minnesota has done so courtesy of the taxpayer of MN. Your parent’s taxes, on average, didn’t even come close to paying the true cost of that education, so you were already receiving a form of welfare before you even graduated high school. A degree at any public university is also heavily subsidized by everyone else’s taxes. So is the street you drive on, the water you drink, etc, etc, etc. No single person comes anywhere near this mythical “paying your own way” unless you are Warren Buffett.

Amost everything these “self-made men” think they paid for themselves is actually a form of welfare where the taxpayer paid a share of it. So the idea that the Indians get free everything whereas white American pays their own way is really BS.

Grouse

Grouse with your example …… your quote “No single person comes anywhere near this mythical “paying your own way” unless you are Warren Buffett” then my question is where does all the money come from….. it must just magically come falling from out of now where?

Tell us what is the indian culture?

Definition of culture:• the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group.

Dave Maze
“I think 9.99 is a great price. Thanks Daveb for the heads up. I’m happy to see a Minnesota company delivering a high quality product. I’m sure the people running the company realize that if they over fish they will have no product to sell. I can only assume they are not idiots. We have no authority to limit what they catch or stop them from fishing. Have a great weekend.”

Its not a Minnesota Company its a Red Lake Nation company not governed by the same rules as all none-indian companies.

I am not a big fan ignoring the reality of facts of which some people find it more acceptable.

Grouse – I recognize and respect your point. There is a reason. A significant reason.

Your other point of everyone taking a form of welfare by using roads, schools, etc…. I only partially agree with. The gov’t only doles out cash that it took from taxpayers….I am paying a significant portion of my wages every year to help out this “welfare”. All taxpayers fund this and it is not a “handout”….it is a return on investment(at a far lower percentage than if I could have kept the cash up front!)

Actually, I am paying well more than average from what I have read.

The Rez’s get the vast majority (nearly all?….I don’t know the actual numbers) of their $$ from the gov’t. If you want to compare “self made men” by the percentage of Gov’t welfare they receive, it is only fair to acknowledge the cash they pay every year to the gov’t coffers. How much do the reservation band members pay in the form of personal income tax…. Or is it more realistic to ask how much tax money from the state do they “give back”?

Yeah, I have an issue with the modern day Indian claiming victimhood.

You know it’s hard to jump into a thread like this if your a hard working person that has an opinion, and A JOB!!

The place that employs you will see your opinion and decide they don’t agree with it, and they will let you go. Called, at will employment. You can leave or get let go, and they can say good bye too you. No questions asked.

We’ve always thought about coming up that way and too fish some of the area. It’ll never happen. Good luck up there.

Missed out on some good conversation, don’t have time to reply to everything I’d like to!

Grouse, great points, thanks for chiming in!

riverruns wrote:

You know it’s hard to jump into a thread like this if your a hard working person that has an opinion, and A JOB!!

The place that employs you will see your opinion and decide they don’t agree with it, and they will let you go. Called, at will employment. You can leave or get let go, and they can say good bye too you. No questions asked.

We’ve always thought about coming up that way and too fish some of the area. It’ll never happen. Good luck up there.

Given current events, are you referring to the people who lost their job for taking part in a white supremacist march? Yikes! I don’t think people are losing their jobs because they post about supermarket walleye, mainly just those, you know, nazis.

Timmy wrote:

Grouse – I recognize and respect your point. There is a reason. A significant reason.

Your other point of everyone taking a form of welfare by using roads, schools, etc…. I only partially agree with. The gov’t only doles out cash that it took from taxpayers….I am paying a significant portion of my wages every year to help out this “welfare”. All taxpayers fund this and it is not a “handout”….it is a return on investment(at a far lower percentage than if I could have kept the cash up front!)

Actually, I am paying well more than average from what I have read.

The Rez’s get the vast majority (nearly all?….I don’t know the actual numbers) of their $$ from the gov’t. If you want to compare “self made men” by the percentage of Gov’t welfare they receive, it is only fair to acknowledge the cash they pay every year to the gov’t coffers. How much do the reservation band members pay in the form of personal income tax…. Or is it more realistic to ask how much tax money from the state do they “give back”?

Yeah, I have an issue with the modern day Indian claiming victimhood.

WHen you are at the income levels these natives are, the income tax is pretty negligible anyways. I mean, we are talking MEDIAN incomes in the 19-31k range for a lot of these bands. How much tax would a white man pay in if they made 20k? Not much.

I legitimately get what you’re saying about victims, and there’s a chance you mean it in a less extreme way then you do. If everyone sat around and didn’t try to better themselves, the world would stagnate.

My point is that that’s not what these people are doing. A lot of them are trying, but the odds are stacked against them. That’s not ‘playing the victim,’ that’s being born into a crappy situation.

Also, there are truly victims out there, and the facts are that there are more of them growing up on the rez(proportionally) than there are here, or most places in the US. Children growing up being abused, without parents because they OD’d, raped, etc. Those are the definition of victims, they exist, and they deserve empathy IMO.

What’s Gonna happen when the lake dies again?
Last time it needed the re-stocking there wasn’t near the ice fishing impact that there is now.
I see both sides but it still feels like a boot to the face?

craig s wrote:

What’s Gonna happen when the lake dies again?
Last time it needed the re-stocking there wasn’t near the ice fishing impact that there is now.
I see both sides but it still feels like a boot to the face?

Anglers will blame it on everyone but themselves, and then whine about not being able to bring home fish to feed there families most likely.

For those of you particularly passionate about righting the inequalities suffered by the underprivileged, I hope your efforts extend beyond posting on an arbitrary website. There are numerous ways you can help and there’s a certain legitimacy to ‘putting your money where your mouth is’. We should all do what we can to improve the world, be it this cause or another.

slipbob_nick wrote:

Andy that’s a hat did someone make it or are they for sale somewhere

I stepped away for a few days for some “Mille Lacs’n” time and come back to find this marathon circle jerk still continues. Two schools of judgement here (and everywhere) ain’t gonna agree on anything. I’ve moved on. I am only back here because there have been several interested in the hat. That is famous Mille Lacs muskie guide and friend of mine Gene Miller pictured. He told me he would have them yesterday at his liquor store, TJ’s in Malmo. I stopped in today and talked with his wife. Many people were asking, unfortunately the supplier had to back out of the muskie fishing outing and they were not delivered. She said they do still hope to get them. If anyone is still interested, I will follow up with Gene as I stopped today to buy some. Hat is pictured again, and also my preferred view of the world.

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In the interest of civility, I’d like to suggest a few things y’all can think about.

1.) Red Lake is a sovereign nation. Like many indigenous nations in the US (roughly 600), Red Lake lands were ceded via treaties in return for “usufractory rights” – meaning that tribal members retain rights to hunt/fish/farm/rice/syrup/use the land however they decide. It’s pretty simple really.

2.) Indigenous people have lived here for thousands of years. There were fish here when Europeans migrated here in the 15th century. There are still fish now. Conservation is a traditional practice paramount to indigenous populations, *especially* Aaniishinaabe (Ojibwe).

3.) Red Lake has it’s own tribal DNR and fish hatchery that can rear and release 10 million walleye fry/fingerlings annually. This is in addition to the MN state DNR’s efforts.

4.) Tribal, State, and Federal (USFWS) agencies cooperate with one another to determine annual “safe harvest” numbers for walleye. The safe harvest is the total number of walleye that can be removed from the population while the population remains annually constant.

5.) “Indians get free money from the government.” Not from the federal or state gov’ts, so don’t worry. Some indigenous nations disperse tribal revenue surplus equally among its own members.

6.) There are lots of sustainably harvested commercial fisheries. Ever eat salmon or trout or tuna or sushi or cod or halibut or marlin? There is a great sustainable sea/lakefood guide available on the Monterey Aquarium website.

7.) In terms of questioning culture, if you really want to learn/know about Red Lake or any other nation, just go there and hang out. Meet some people. Talk to elders, visit a community center, they’ll probably even feed you. Red Lakers are a ton of fun.

8.) I’m Lac Courte Orielles Ojibwe. We’re cool. Most people are pretty good folks wherever ya go in the world. But you’ll find your share of a-holes out there too, wherever you go.

Nate Northup wrote:

In the interest of civility, I’d like to suggest a few things y’all can think about.

1.) Red Lake is a sovereign nation. Like many indigenous nations in the US (roughly 600), Red Lake lands were ceded via treaties in return for “usufractory rights” – meaning that tribal members retain rights to hunt/fish/farm/rice/syrup/use the land however they decide. It’s pretty simple really.

2.) Indigenous people have lived here for thousands of years. There were fish here when Europeans migrated here in the 15th century. There are still fish now. Conservation is a traditional practice paramount to indigenous populations, *especially* Aaniishinaabe (Ojibwe).

3.) Red Lake has it’s own tribal DNR and fish hatchery that can rear and release 10 million walleye fry/fingerlings annually. This is in addition to the MN state DNR’s efforts.

4.) Tribal, State, and Federal (USFWS) agencies cooperate with one another to determine annual “safe harvest” numbers for walleye. The safe harvest is the total number of <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>walleye that can be removed from the population while the population remains annually constant.

5.) “Indians get free money from the government.” Not from the federal or state gov’ts, so don’t worry. Some indigenous nations disperse tribal revenue surplus equally among its own members.

6.) There are lots of sustainably harvested commercial fisheries. Ever eat salmon or trout or tuna or sushi or cod or halibut or marlin? There is a great sustainable sea/lakefood guide available on the Monterey Aquarium website.

7.) In terms of questioning culture, if you really want to learn/know about Red Lake or any other nation, just go there and hang out. Meet some people. Talk to elders, visit a community center, they’ll probably even feed you. Red Lakers are a ton of fun.

8.) I’m Lac Courte Orielles Ojibwe. We’re cool. Most people are pretty good folks wherever ya go in the world. But you’ll find your share of a-holes out there too, wherever you go.

Thanks Nate, great post and solid info. I might believe you were cool if it didn’t say you were from Iowa!

Nate, thanks a lot for taking the time to post. I appreciate you dispelling a lot of the misconceptions in this thread, and if anything I’ve brought up is completely off base I trust you’d set me straight.

I would like to hear Timmy’s reply given the information you provided, especially since so much of his point of view is based on his belief that Indians are receiving all sorts of cash from the government, which doesn’t seem to be true.

And to think this all started with Dave B.’s trip to Cub!
What will happen when he goes to Walmart???

Nate,

Sorry but your dead wrong on point #5. I have seen the payout numbers from Federal and State Governments.

I have hung out with tribal members of both the Red Lake and White Earth tribes while doing work for them. For the most part very nice people just like anywhere else I go for work.

I agree wholeheartedly with your point #8

DaveB wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Nate Northup wrote:</div>

Thanks Nate, great post and solid info. I might believe you were cool if it didn’t say you were from Iowa!

Haha Dave well I’m on my 4th week as an Iowan and I sure am missing my northwoods The things we do for the women we love she’s got 2 more years of hoitytoity phd program before I can leave this place and find some good water again.

Thanks for your reply

philtickelson wrote:

I would like to hear Timmy’s reply given the information you provided, especially since so much of his point of view is based on his belief that Indians are receiving all sorts of cash from the government, which doesn’t seem to be true.

Nate – excellent post – and I appreciate your response and perspective.

As far as my opinions on them receiving money, I think I was misunderstood. My comments were that the reservations are mostly funded by the US gov’t, not that individual members are getting handfuls of money directly. How are the individual reservations funded? Lots of US tax money is definately part of it.

IMO, if sovereign nation status is desired, that is great. But it should be complete. Be sovereign and self sufficient, with no reliance on other governments help. The red lake nation is as close to that as I know of. As far as going there to spend time…..I do not feel safe even driving through, let alone feeling welcome to stop and visit.

http://wtip.org/moose-hunt-returns-northeastern-minnesota-2017
Will we be seeing moose at cub foods soon?

eyeguy507 wrote:

http://wtip.org/moose-hunt-returns-northeastern-minnesota-2017
Will we be seeing moose at cub foods soon?

Oh boy, here we go again…

MOOSE SOUP

DaveB wrote:

MOOSE SOUP

I gotta turn around to get my passenger, mind if I stop by later?