Lets see, they get a check mailed to them every 2 weeks just because they are in the band. Kind of like collecting un employment for life. Real rough they have it. Sure they aren’t as well off as others that are located closer to the big cities, but they ain’t hurting. If they want to net, then do it to support your family or community just like the sportsman that go there. That lake is not big enough to be a commercial fishery like Erie or Winnipeg and we saw what greed did to the lake, but that won’t stop them. Years ago, before opener, a boat of natives decided to set up their nets at the mouth of the tamarac for some easy pickens….and you wonder why it went dry. The nets have a domino effect on many that fish the lake. Countless times you see boats catch their limit twice a day in the spring. If everyone played by the rules, we would have less things to bich about.
IDO » Forums » Fishing Forums » General Discussion Forum » Red Lake Walleye at Cub Foods
Red Lake Walleye at Cub Foods
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philtickelsonInactiveMahtomedi, MNPosts: 1678September 1, 2017 at 11:05 am #1713198
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>philtickelson wrote:</div>
https://wilsonquarterly.com/stories/why-rich-kids-become-rich-adults-and-poor-kids-become-poor-adults/That article was a waste of 30seconds.
Agreed it’s the commies though, red flag with red nation…. coincidence I think not
What about it was a waste? Just trying to continue to articulate that it’s not as easy as ‘people just need to work hard, they have every opportunity we do.’
A lot of people just seem to dismiss that growing up in poverty makes it exponentially harder to make something of yourself. That’s the point I’m trying to get across and I think the article sums that up well.
‘To fix a problem that starts so early in life, it is necessary to start in early childhood. Chetty and Hendren, after finding that the chance of upward mobility is increased if young children are exposed to resources usually reserved for the rich (such as better schooling and safer neighborhoods), recommend housing voucher programs to enable lower-income families to move to better neighborhoods with quality pre-school programs. Otherwise, leaving such traps of inequality unanswered means another generation of children blocked from success.’
How many kids growing up on the reservation have access to better schooling?
for many higher profile job opportunities, currently, minorities will have the edge if all else is equal. Not always, but often enough. HARD WORK can overcome being a victim. Being a victim can be a choice.
But all else is not equal, and that’s the point. The barriers to get an opportunity for that ‘higher profile job’ for a lot of minorities are significantly higher than for someone like me. You’re just offhand dismissing the actual problem. I mean, it’s kind of like saying, “All else being equal, a Mexican ice hockey team has every opportunity to be as good as a Canadian one, they just don’t put forth the effort to be as good,”. Which if course ignores the fact that canadians can play hockey outdoors for 6 months a year, making the access to ice and rinks much easier than in Mexico City.
Am I saying that they should just be given success or anything like that? No, I just want people to apprecitate and recognize the situation they are in. The notion that they have every opportunity that I had is false.
a native american,(hate that term as I was born here too….)will get 1st dibs on any gov’t funding, scholarships, grants, gov’t jobs, etc….over any white guy. My degrees wer earned both by my performance and by cash I paid. No Indian is deprived of that same opportunity. Period. Perhaps the level of effort to leave there way of life may be harder, but it is a hurdle, not an impassable barrier.
My disagreement is with the end part of this. It’s not a ‘perhaps’, it’s an absolute certainty that the level of effort is significantly higher. Calling it just a ‘hurdle’ vastly underestimates the challenge. Impassable barrier? No, but when their barrier is a 30 ft wall and my barrier is a small set of stairs, that’s not ‘equal’.
It’s also not as easy as just asking for money from the government. Talking about college specifically, that requires them to have gone through high school with passing marks, probably taken the ACT/SAT, understood how/where to apply for those grants/scholarships, etc. Who are they getting that information from, their parents who never went to high school? Their friends who dropped out? Their underpaid, under-qualified teachers?
That’s the only point I’m trying to get across.
September 1, 2017 at 11:11 am #1713199Crappies get stuck in those nets? Whatever happened to the time one could fill buckets with slabs….
Crappies are on the menu at Redlakewalleye.com. The reason the crappies exploded was because the walleye disappeared. The reason the crappies disappeared was because they left in buckets. See, domino effect.
philtickelsonInactiveMahtomedi, MNPosts: 1678September 1, 2017 at 11:46 am #1713206Lets see, they get a check mailed to them every 2 weeks just because they are in the band. Kind of like collecting un employment for life. Real rough they have it. Sure they aren’t as well off as others that are located closer to the big cities, but they ain’t hurting. If they want to net, then do it to support your family or community just like the sportsman that go there. That lake is not big enough to be a commercial fishery like Erie or Winnipeg and we saw what greed did to the lake, but that won’t stop them. Years ago, before opener, a boat of natives decided to set up their nets at the mouth of the tamarac for some easy pickens….and you wonder why it went dry. The nets have a domino effect on many that fish the lake. Countless times you see boats catch their limit twice a day in the spring. If everyone played by the rules, we would have less things to bich about.
Source please. Which tribes are you talking about and what checks are you referring to? Are you referring to the ~300 members of the Shakopee tribe who receive portions of the millions in gambling profits for their casino located in the metro area?
Or are you talking about the tens of thousands of members of the Red Lake band that are sharing in the much more meager profits?
“They ain’t hurting”. Would like to hear your reasoning on this one. ~40% of the indians living on the Leech or Red Lake reservation are living in poverty. That seems at odds with your statement. Your comparison to unemployment is interesting as well. There are definitely those that abuse it, but the majority of those on unemployment are by definition, ‘hurting’.
Sportsman go to Red Lake to support their families and that community? That’s the biggest BS I’ve ever heard. Sportsmen go there because it’s one of the lakes that they can expend the least amount of effort to catch a limit of walleyes on in the entire state. Period. The hundreds of guys driving ice castles out on Red every winter are up there to support their families? They drive up to feel all warm and fuzzy that their $15 launch fee is helping the local economy?
nhammInactiveRobbinsdalePosts: 7348September 1, 2017 at 12:41 pm #1713215The article didnt articulate it well at all, same blah blah talking points you hear everyday, and since too lazy to type today I poked ya and great response!
Have more than a few longtime friends from the heart of city who make way more money than I do and are good people. Unfortunately went to a funeral for one as well couple days ago from a drive-by who was on his way up but the city snatched em up before he could get there. Not quite a maple grove problem, but shows if given the right opportunities anyone can make it in this great country!
I’m out boys!
September 1, 2017 at 1:07 pm #1713220If you believe Wikipedia…………..
In the 2000 census, Red Lake was the most populous reservation in the state, with 5,162 residents.
philtickelsonInactiveMahtomedi, MNPosts: 1678September 1, 2017 at 1:45 pm #1713222I guess i didn’t check the exact numbers, I was just going off of this statement from the following article(which is a really good read if you want to understand more about how the casinos have impacted the different indian tribes.
Further, the latest Census data suggest that initial economic gains may have eroded after the year 2000. Median incomes have fallen and poverty rates deepened on the state’s largest reservations – Leech Lake, Red Lake and White Earth – headquarters for nearly 35,000 tribal members.
I did a bit of lazy estimation, thanks for catching it.
Point still stands though, later in Wikipedia on red lake band:
Per capita income is lower at Red Lake than on any other reservation in the state. It was estimated at US$8,372 in 1999, according to the Northwest Area Foundation.[citation needed] Approximately 40% of residents live below the poverty line. Between 1990 and 2000, the population increased by 40% as people returned to the reservation after difficulty finding employment elsewhere during recession years.
An unemployment rate hovering near 60%[9] and associated poverty are thought to contribute to a high level of crime. In 2004, the tribal police filed 3,500 court cases. The majority of the population is young, with approximately 60% of the residents under the age of 18.
The unemployment and poverty have resulted in associated problems of high rates of violence, including suicide. A 2004 Minnesota School Study found that 43% of boys and 81% of girls in the freshman class of the high school had considered suicide, and 48% of the girls had tried it.[6] The school has a low graduation rate.[9]
In other words, “They ain’t hurting”? If only these 15 year olds would just pull themselves up by their bootstraps right? HALF of the freshmen girls had attempted suicide! That school that was surveyed has over 300 students!
Of course that pales in comparison to the inconvenience to my people, imagine having to drive an extra hour and a half to LOTW because Red isn’t giving up easy limits of walleyes anymore. Do they even know what kind of struggle that is for me and my people?
September 1, 2017 at 1:56 pm #1713223I admire your efforts here Phil but you are wasting your time. You are talking with a bunch of white males… you know, the most privileged group of people on earth. Furthermore, I don’t think anyone here has their ears open and is attempting to listen to arguments from all sides and take in different viewpoints. Its just one side hollering to another.
As the saying goes, “privilege is invisible to those who have it.”
philtickelsonInactiveMahtomedi, MNPosts: 1678September 1, 2017 at 2:20 pm #1713225I know the lost causes of who you speak, my only hope is that there are others whose ears are open :).
September 1, 2017 at 3:01 pm #1713227I admire your efforts here Phil but you are wasting your time. You are talking with a bunch of white males… you know, the most privileged group of people on earth. Furthermore, I don’t think anyone here has their ears open and is attempting to listen to arguments from all sides and take in different viewpoints. Its just one side hollering to another.
As the saying goes, “privilege is invisible to those who have it.”
Talk about an incredible judgemental statement! Good God Ethel!
September 1, 2017 at 3:03 pm #1713229Andy, Phil or Crappie?
Have any of you spent any amount of time on the reservation? Do you know the inner workings of the tribal finances?
September 1, 2017 at 3:18 pm #1713230I would guess you two are talking about this lost cause.
I’m glad to know that when I’m lost and confused I can turn to you two who apparently know me so well.
Kinda ironic you would pass judgement on me when you think I’m passing judgement on others don’t you think?
Carry on, you have it all figured out.
September 1, 2017 at 3:51 pm #1713234I would guess you two are talking about this lost cause.
I’m glad to know that when I’m lost and confused I can turn to you two who apparently know me so well.
Kinda ironic you would pass judgement on me when you think I’m passing judgement on others don’t you think?
Carry on, you have it all figured out.
um… well, it was right after you suggested that they should open up a motel/resort and have guided fishing trips that you said you wouldn’t be caught dead on red lake even if they offered you free lodging (a funny and ironic follow up to your initial statement that only served diminish the value of your suggestion), so considering your statement yeah I figured you weren’t all ears and open to discussion and varying opinions on the matter.
To respond to you Mocah, im not sure why you thought my statement was so judgmental. The first statement is my opinion directed as advice to Phil alone. The 2nd statement that all those in this discussion are white males and that while males are the most privileged group on earth is about as close to fact as you can get. Might be a few of us here that are not white males but I doubt many if any at all. My final statement about those in here not being open to discussion lets just say I based that off of plenty of experience. Was that a judgmental thing to say? Sure. I also don’t consider it to be a mean spirited or vile statement so I don’t see the big offense. In my experience those on this site have strong opinions on natives and their activities on lakes and those opinions are as good as concrete.
As for tribal finances I am not sure how you find that related to what I said, but I am all ears if you want to enlighten us on the matter. Certainly money plays a factor in privilege but it is just one of a great many factors that provides privilege. I will tell you that I have quite a few friends that live in and grew up in the Bemidji area and I can tell you that the hate, distrust , and racism toward natives in that area is real and palpable.
September 1, 2017 at 3:54 pm #1713235Damn…..why wasn’t this thread shut down yesterday…..
Or has this become a political site??nhammInactiveRobbinsdalePosts: 7348September 1, 2017 at 4:48 pm #1713236My FIL is from the Red rez, probably can count on one hand the number of times he’s been back there in over the decade I’ve known him. Being on the rez is last resort for most people, and not all are the same. Some take pride in being and do live the old ways, most do not.
Phil I’m glad you brought up the girls, rape #’s are the most disgusting part of the whole equation, staggering really up there.
Glad to see the red rez facilitating economic opportunity for their people’s, I wouldn’t hesitate buying fish if I couldn’t catch any on my own. Commercial nettng or buckets out of resorts, we are getting to a point in our fisheries more and more restrictions will be necessary to sustain. Tired of this feast or famine fish population.
TimmyPosts: 1235September 1, 2017 at 5:51 pm #1713240At what age does the hurdle for a native become passable? Sooner or later, EVERYONE is responsible for their current situation. If they don’t like it, they can change it. To claim otherwise is simply playing the victim card and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
There is no reason an adult on the Rez can not leave and better themselves. Not one. We live in a land of boundless opportunity. There is no country in the world where a poverty stricken person has a better chance to pick themselves up and make a success story.
As long as I see people immigrating from poverty stricken countries with NOTHING to their names and working their way to success, I can not accept the fact that the modern day native has no chance for success.
September 1, 2017 at 6:03 pm #1713242Good news is everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. I wouldn’t call post political most would agree you can’t lump anyone into a group everyone’s there own person. Turn the energy back towards the Decon sites!
For the record if I bought walleye at a store I’d kick my own ### regardless of where it came from.
September 1, 2017 at 6:33 pm #1713248Damn…..why wasn’t this thread shut down yesterday…..
Or has this become a political site??I debated whether to return to the ring here as I’m getting ready to escape up north to “relax at Mille Lacs.” Just thought I’d add and hopefully not subtract anything from this discussion.
One thing I truly like about this forum is that the moderators do not lock down threads at the first hint of disagreement. My observation is that everyone here stays somewhat civil. Other forums I’ve visited would turn very ugly with name calling and insults. The threads on those forums would get locked down immediately which then eliminated the chance for any meaningful comments to be posted. There is some benefits here in having controversial discussions as it does allow a free speech of our opinions, views, and values. Obviously we do not all agree but it would not be a better world if we all agreed on everything that existed.
I have to remind myself that though I may not agree with someone, I still need to respect that they have their own views and opinions and should not hold that against them personally. There are those that don’t agree with me and that does not make me right or wrong anymore than whether they are right or wrong. I would remind everyone here if you do not agree with someone, respect at least that it is their opinions and do not become disrespectful towards them.
That being said I will offer an apology to Timmy. I still do not agree with his thoughts however I did overreact when I made my comment about “head in the sand.” Timmy, that was undeserved on your part and I apologize for that comment.Glad to see the red rez facilitating economic opportunity for their people’s, I wouldn’t hesitate buying fish if I couldn’t catch any on my own. Commercial nettng or buckets out of resorts, we are getting to a point in our fisheries more and more restrictions will be necessary to sustain. Tired of this feast or famine fish population.
I buy walleye because I truly enjoy eating them but as we all know, catching walleye on Mille Lacs does not fulfill my hope for sizzling fillets in the pan. I know there are many that say “just go to another lake, there’s 10,000 more.” I suppose I could but I bought a place right on Mille Lacs, my boat is there and the launch is 100 yards from my place. That and I like fishing that lake. Oh well…have a safe and great holiday weekend everyone.
TimmyPosts: 1235September 1, 2017 at 6:48 pm #1713250Have a great Labor Day weekend, Andy, and thanks for the comments. I agree……we CAN disagree and still respect each other.
September 1, 2017 at 7:22 pm #1713256I admire your efforts here Phil but you are wasting your time. You are talking with a bunch of white males… you know, the most privileged group of people on earth. Furthermore, I don’t think anyone here has their ears open and is attempting to listen to arguments from all sides and take in different viewpoints. Its just one side hollering to another.
As the saying goes, “privilege is invisible to those who have it.”
Another brainless comment from the token liberal.
September 1, 2017 at 7:41 pm #1713261Token liberal? Forum would be pretty boring if everyone had the same opinion. for the record all politicians suck in my opinion. Oops lumped a group maybe we can all agree we don’t like politicians
September 1, 2017 at 7:45 pm #1713262I came up with one thought from this. Camo hats with bright letters: make millelacs great again or: fishing on millelacs is great again
September 1, 2017 at 10:23 pm #1713270I admire your efforts here Phil but you are wasting your time. You are talking with a bunch of white males… you know, the most privileged group of people on earth. Furthermore, I don’t think anyone here has their ears open and is attempting to listen to arguments from all sides and take in different viewpoints. Its just one side hollering to another.
As the saying goes, “privilege is invisible to those who have it.”
95% here are white males that worked hard to put themselves in a position to succeed. All it takes is some drive to better your situation. I never had anything handed to me like many others here and made the most of what I was given. I’ve driven through that rez years ago and it is a dump! Every 5 miles there is an empty case of beer in the ditch, bullet holes in the signs, crap piled all over their property…people just don’t care to better themselves. I guess I don’t buy the poverty bit since every trailer/house has a dish on it.
Phil, you make very good points and they did not fall on deaf ears but this post has gone way off course. Red cannot sustain a commercial fishery and it has been proven. I just want fair rules for all so that our future can enjoy this great resource.September 2, 2017 at 7:57 am #1713284Hey crappie, Id advise you to never send me or any others on here a pm like you just sent me.
September 2, 2017 at 9:28 am #1713297I was advised by BK to take any personal disagreements to the PM feature rather than air it out on the forums. Thanks for the advice but I’ll listen to the moderators. And I wouldn’t send that message to anyone but you so I wouldn’t worry about others, you’re one of a kind
September 2, 2017 at 10:37 am #1713304I came up with one thought from this. Camo hats with bright letters: make millelacs great again or: fishing on millelacs is great again
Does it matter that it’s not camo?
Attachments:
September 2, 2017 at 11:04 am #1713309I was advised by BK to take any personal disagreements to the PM feature rather than air it out on the forums. Thanks for the advice but I’ll listen to the moderators. And I wouldn’t send that message to anyone but you so I wouldn’t worry about others, you’re one of a kind
September 2, 2017 at 3:15 pm #1713332Andy that’s a hat did someone make it or are they for sale somewhere
September 2, 2017 at 4:24 pm #1713337There is no reason an adult on the Rez can not leave and better themselves.
Yes there is. The part about leaving the Rez that you don’t understand is that by doing this, they are also leaving behind an important aspect of their culture–your tribe and the land.
You are thinking only in economic terms and the issue of culture clearly does not even enter your thinking. Yes, yes, I know, culture isn’t real, it’s all touchy-feely, kumbaya crap. But there you are, you said there was no reason, but there’s a reason.
I spend some time on a Rez every year. I grew up with Indians. My father helped educate them. We harvested wild rice with them every year. What I’ve learned about Indians is they aren’t like you and I.
I also find it amusing and troubling, this “self-made man” theory so many people have where they got where they are purely from their own efforts and they paid their own way.
Bullcrap. Just to use the example of education, every child who has graduated high school in Minnesota has done so courtesy of the taxpayer of MN. Your parent’s taxes, on average, didn’t even come close to paying the true cost of that education, so you were already receiving a form of welfare before you even graduated high school. A degree at any public university is also heavily subsidized by everyone else’s taxes. So is the street you drive on, the water you drink, etc, etc, etc. No single person comes anywhere near this mythical “paying your own way” unless you are Warren Buffett.
Amost everything these “self-made men” think they paid for themselves is actually a form of welfare where the taxpayer paid a share of it. So the idea that the Indians get free everything whereas white American pays their own way is really BS.
Grouse
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