Re-Wire/Elec Panel

To anyone here licensed as a residential electrician…

Recently purchased a home built in 1952, knowing it needed work. Today I had an electrician come in to assess. He got to a point where he said he wouldn’t go further, the 1100sq ft house needs to be completely re-wired along with a new panel. The nearly 80yr old wire was disintegrating in his hands, has no ground wire & was arching as he opened outlets/switches. His bid to update all wiring, outlets, switches & panel to code, would be 10k – 12k for this tiny house. My jaw hit the floor! Is this the going rate? I’ve scheduled 3 more estimates to be done but holy smokes!

Everything is going to be elevated right now with peak season. Wait until after the new year I bet that cost goes down substantially.

Deuces wrote:

Everything is going to be elevated right now with peak season. Wait until after the new year I bet that cost goes down substantially.

Peak season for electricians?
Don’t bet on it.
Want it done cheaper….. tear out the Sheetrock or plaster and have everything accessible for them.

Wally –
Out of curiosity did you have a “Home Inspector” look at the place prior.

Is that really that out of the ballpark? We bought our place, built in ‘56, 1400 sq ft, back in 2005. During the inspection we negotiated to have the electrical upgraded to 100amp service with new panel and a new mast installed outside, but the wiring was still in good shape so that all stayed. 12k was what we paid, which we ended up splitting with the seller.

I haven’t ever hired an electrician beside that so I have no clue if that was as appropriate cost. We were young and dumb, first time buyers, etc.

MnPat1 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Mr.Beads wrote:</div>
Everything is going to be elevated right now with peak season. Wait until after the new year I bet that cost goes down substantially.

Peak season for electricians?
Don’t bet on it.
Want it done cheaper….. tear out the Sheetrock or plaster and have everything accessible for them.

x2!

Electricians don’t come cheap. By the sounds of it he’s going to have to fish wire through finished walls, through the attic, or find another way around. All that takes time. 10-12k sounds about right. Remember you get what you pay for, if you find a considerably lower price make sure its apples to apples. Open walls will drop the price considerably. And at the same time gives you access to see what needs to be upgraded(insulation, plumbing, hvac, etc)

But whatever you do it sounds like it needs to be fixed ASAP. Could be a huge fire hazard.

Purchased well below ask price, knowing issues. Isn’t anything I can’t do regarding a house other than electrical, & pisses me off I didn’t learn. Opening this house to show its guts is easy, and putting it back is easy, still going to cost a shitload. Yes, it’s a serious hazard, sparks were shooting from every switch/outlet this guy opened up.. I’ve put in 3 new fire alarms due to this & my bedroom window wouldn’t stop me if I were bound & gagged. also doing a new furnace, central air, radon system to boot. One week of ownership & 30k into it, not counting my 18hr days of renovations.

Pout- no. I intentionally left out the inspection due to offering/buying well less than ask because knowing there isn’t anything I can’t do, other than a full re-wire panel/ replacement, and they accepted. It’s a bitch, a 10k hit I was hoping to avoid as this is not an investment house that I’ve renovated in every home I’ve owned… I’m an ol tired dog laying by his dish..

Tangler- do have 100 amp box now, using 80yr old wiring. It’s beyond spooky watching a master electrician say he is done. Cost, at that point, does not matter.

It would come in cheaper if you killed the main, demo’d all existing wiring yourself and had no plaster/rock installed that the electrician had to work behind. Price wise, that quote sounds reasonable, if not a little low even given the amount of swearing that sparky is going to do during the course of that project if everything has to be fished up through the floor or down from the attic.

100 Amp was an upgrade ? What Amp service did they put in them in the 50’s ??? Could you run a toaster and coffee maker at the same time back then ???

big_g wrote:

100 Amp was an upgrade ? What Amp service did they put in them in the 50’s ??? Could you run a toaster and coffee maker at the same time back then ???

Well they didnt have microwaves, probably made toast on the stove and there was no such thing as a 65″ TV back then so??? LOL
I agree though, upgrading to 100 now is a bit on the small side.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
100 Amp was an upgrade ? What Amp service did they put in them in the 50’s ??? Could you run a toaster and coffee maker at the same time back then ???

Well they didnt have microwaves, probably made toast on the stove and there was no such thing as a 65″ TV back then so??? LOL
I agree though, upgrading to 100 now is a bit on the small side.

When we bought our place 15 years ago it was only at 60amp service. We were just glad it wasn’t knob & tube lol. In a small house like ours, with natural gas appliances, radiator heat, no big AC unit, etc, 100amp has been sufficient for us.

Our insurance was not willing to write a policy for the house with the 60amp service. We tried to negotiate an upgrade to 200amp and they told us to take a hike. We’d been house shopping for over a year, our lease was about to expire, and we really wanted the house, so we settled for the 100amp upgrade. We can’t use the vacuum cleaner if the electric fireplace insert is on in the basement, but that has been our only limitation in 15 years.

When we sell I expect to get shook down for that 200amp upgrade

big_g wrote:

100 Amp was an upgrade ? What Amp service did they put in them in the 50’s ???

60 and 80 amp was standard. Cartridge or screw in type fuses. You know, the kind that blew on Thanksgiving when the turkey was in the oven and all stores were closed?

I had an 80 amp service that was arcing in the box when it was pulled for the 100 amp service.

I looked around our house a few years back to see what was taking power that might not be needed. AC adapters do not take much power on their own, but we have a bunch of them from cell phone chargers to camera battery chargers…it all take a little bit and it does ad up.
Plus light and power out to the garage and storage shed.

Slowly replacing with LED’s… we are a power hungary people.

In this day of LED, low power consumption appliances 100 amp will be more than enough. The reason 150amp or 200 amp services were used back in the day were because of electric heat. When Xcel figures transformers for houses they figure 40 amps per house and put 4 houses on 1 transformer. And before you ask I am a licensed electrician and have been for 33 years.

Depending on your power company to, I know when I lived in Cambridge ECE wouldn’t touch 100AMP, they were doing all 200amp.

Seriously just gut the rooms or cut for chases for the electrician, its not hard to drywall/plaster depending what you have to make it look nice again.

Doesn’t the service wire factor in there somewhere?

60 amps service is more than enough for 99% of the houses out there, the problem is that there aren’t enough spaces in those boxes for the number of circuits needed. A friend of mine works for the power company and does usage audits, most houses at peak are only using around 20-30 amps. Which still leaves margin for startup spikes with a 60 amp box.

jkarels wrote:

In this day of LED, low power consumption appliances 100 amp will be more than enough. The reason 150amp or 200 amp services were used back in the day were because of electric heat. When Xcel figures transformers for houses they figure 40 amps per house and put 4 houses on 1 transformer. And before you ask I am a licensed electrician and have been for 33 years.

Very true. I have 200 amp service and there are many empty slots. We do have electric heat and when we bought our house had dual electric water heaters with off peak electric for those and the baseboard heaters.
Pretty much immediately replaced the water heaters and went to Natural Gas.
I dont think we have much load either, but my wife’s hair dryer and our window AC unit could never run at the same time. LOL

Like others have said, kill power to the house and start making pathways and routes for where you want power. That’s a lot of the hard work. Tearing all the old wire out would save you even more. Good luck……

I thought everybody had a garage and a welder…. maybe not.

Have 2 more quotes coming tomorrow. The basement ceilings are mostly open, I’ll open pathways to fish wire down to existing outlets/switches. The main floor has an attic above it all, will open pathways to existing outlets/switches. I’m liking The panel upgrade to be one that self monitors the whole system every 3 seconds, not sure what’s it’s called but was recommended. All existing wire can stay buried, it’ll all be dead so why bother pulling it, I’ll certainly remove any visible wire.
Patching Sheetrock I can do in my sleep & to save money I can put in boxes/light fixtures/outlets/switches once the wiring is in & panel upgraded. I’m thinking it’ll be inspected after the electricians are done, and then again after I am done as long as I have a licensed electrician give my work the green light?

Instead of a patchwork job I would open up all exterior walls and insulate and wire. Might as well do it right. Remove all the existing wires and let an electrician do the whole job. You trying to do some of the electrical work will cost you more money and will scare away at least some electricians.
Take photos of all the walls before and after insulation and wiring is complete to show future buyers that everything has been updated.

Respectfully disagree. Not about to toot my horn on capabilities either.

Pull the permit yourself, don’t put an electrician on the hook for your work.

Wallyhntr1 wrote:

Respectfully disagree. Not about to toot my horn on capabilities either.

Who are you disagreeing with?

He is disagreeing with me.

Who wants a well insulated updated home when you can just patch it all together.
Updating the hvac at the same time would be a good idea.

But what would I know…..

HVAC is being 100% re-done, paid for. Gravity furnace is bye bye, new furnace going in, all new duct work, new central air, paid for. All new water system already in, water softener/heater, lines inspected. All remaining plumbing I’ll be doing as I have completely gutted kitchen to the studs, as will the bathroom. Radon system being installed in a week. Again, respectfully, zero need to gut walls & ceilings for electrical when all have been replaced, insulated, within 15yrs. Patchwork is far less effort, & financial, than gutting, both I’ve done multiple times.

Pat- yes, I respectfully disagree with your words. Are you licensed in any home renovations? I am, and not looking to bust a bubble.

Wait, you can leave dead wires in the walls? Is that true?