Looks like the squirrel numbers are critically low on public hunting land near the metro. They bring up the Hmong community numerous times in the article but carefully sidestep any perception of blaming them. Ok, I’ll blame them. It’s blately obvious. The stories are real. High numbers of men infiltrate small wooded areas and decimate the wildlife. Perhaps through education and generations the problem will go away. I’m guessing it has already started to get better but the problem remains. We all must use dicipline and restraint in pursuing game. The same goes for fish. We as people have the ability to easily wipe out any species out there. It’s up to us NOT to do so.
IDO » Forums » Hunting Forums » Small Game Hunting » DNR Investigates Squirrel Numbers
DNR Investigates Squirrel Numbers
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September 9, 2009 at 5:10 pm #57747
Not to mention how dangerous it can be when a group of squirrel hunters hit the woods that are shared with bowhunters. Because of this, I have quit hunting locally because I feel that it can be unsafe.
I’ve had numerous close calls in the metro ranging from guns being pointed at me while I am in the tree to lead hitting the treetops just feet above me. Calls to TIP were not sucessful, as nothing could be proven, and most of the time there was a language barrier that could not be understood.
I know there are many ethical squirrel hunters out there, but like always, the bad apples tend to stick out. Hopefully the DNR can offer some education on this matter in the future to make things safer for everyone enjoying the outdoors. Just my .02
September 10, 2009 at 4:04 am #57817Someone was telling me today about how low the numbers were at a local state park. They sure are not low on my private land. Same problem down here as the metro – hmong. Execpt they affect alot more than just squirrels.
September 10, 2009 at 2:16 pm #57857Here’s a copy of the article that appeared in the MN Outdoor News:
DNR investigates concerns about squirrel numbers
By Joe Albert
Associate Editor
Thursday, September 3, 2009 9:26 AM CDT
St. Paul – DNR officials likely will take a hard look at squirrel seasons in the state in coming months, the result of the belief in some quarters that squirrel populations are decreasing.The agency surveyed squirrel hunters earlier this year as part of an effort to determine how squirrel hunting opportunities might be improved and if the perceptions about squirrel-hunting problems varied among hunter groups.
The survey was sent to 400 Hmong and non-Hmong hunters inside and outside the metro area. DNR officials met last Thursday with some members of the southeast Asian community to discuss the results.
Tim Bremicker, DNR regional wildlife manager in St. Paul, said the effort is less about individual groups and more about squirrel hunting as a whole.
“This is about squirrels and making squirrel hunting more available to everybody,” he said. “Because it is so important to the Hmong community, they are really pushing something that is important to all of us.”
The Capitol Sportsmen’s chapter of the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association, which helped fund the survey, has been especially active in the squirrel discussions. John Vang, who’s a part of that chapter, said there’s been no response yet to the DNR report.
He said access is a big issue.
That’s consistent with what Emily Dunbar, a research biologist at the DNR’s Farmland Wildlife Populations and Research Group, found during the survey.
According to her findings, 98 percent of the Hmong hunters from the metro area hunted on public land only. Much smaller numbers of non-Hmong hunters did so, with most hunting both public and private land.
“The Hmong hunters feel that the populations are decreasing, and they spend the majority of their time on public land,” Dunbar said. “They perceive (squirrel populations) as decreasing whereas the rest of the hunters who hunt either a mix of private and public land – or who hunt just private land – feel they are stable or increasing.
“All we have are perceptions,” she said, because the DNR doesn’t estimate the state’s squirrel population.
The survey also showed that 78 percent of the metro Hmong hunters reported obstacles to gain access to hunting land. Sixty-two percent of metro non-Hmong hunters reported obstacles; 46 percent of statewide non-Hmong hunters reported encountering obstacles.
The obstacles most frequently cited by metro Hmong hunters “were how to find additional public hunting land and not comfortable asking permission to access private land,” according to Dunbar’s report.
Given their proximity to populations centers, it’s not surprising that wildlife management areas in the metro area receive heavy hunting pressure, Bremicker said.
There’s a “general consensus” that squirrel populations are decreasing on WMAs, especially those close to the metro area, he said.
There are some options to deal with it, including looking at bag limits or season timing and length, but knowledge likely will play a role, too, since there are other types of public lands available for hunting.
“There is a lot of squirrel hunting on other public land,” Bremicker said. “There needs to be a real concerted effort to expand the knowledge regarding public land and the access to those public lands.”
September 10, 2009 at 2:28 pm #57858One thing we all have to keep in mind is that we can not label one race as being bad for hunting. That will only lead to other problems. There are good hunters out there and bad ones just like everything else in life. We as hunters must unite and continue to educate one another so that we all have successful hunting for years to come and for future generatations.
lickPosts: 6443September 10, 2009 at 2:50 pm #57860Quote:
One thing we all have to keep in mind is that we can not label one race as being bad for hunting. That will only lead to other problems. There are good hunters out there and bad ones just like everything else in life. We as hunters must unite and continue to educate one another so that we all have successful hunting for years to come and for future generatations.
well said brad
September 10, 2009 at 4:25 pm #57874Sounds nobel Brad but if the shoe fits….
The group of major offenders has to have a name and I along with many others are comfortable with the one chosen. Bravo for those in the group that have changed their ways but I’ll continue to believe my own eyes and in this case, those of the DNR.September 15, 2009 at 2:52 am #58335What is the bag limit for tree rats ? I didn’t see anything in the article siteing people of any race, taking over their legal limit ? I am quite sure it happens across all ethnic groups, slob hunters don’t come from one specific race, IMHO. I did see that in the Hmong community, they have a 32% less chance of getting permission to hunt private land, as a non-Hmong. Realistically, I can see that easily. When 4 guys hunt 100 acres of private land, because they have permission and take 3 rats each, thats 12. When 200 guys hunt 100 public acres, cause that’s all they have access too and take 3 rats each, thats 600. Which woods do you think will decline ??? I am glad it sounds like the Hmong community is actively involved and wants the resource to continue
September 15, 2009 at 3:35 am #58342Quote:
What is the bag limit for tree rats ?
Daily limit is 7 and possession is 14.
September 15, 2009 at 3:11 pm #58416Thanks Brad It would take me all of 5 minutes to limit out in my yard…. they are banging the acorns out of the oaks, harder than a downpour rain !!!
eye_hunterPosts: 517December 8, 2009 at 3:50 pm #71506ok, first of all i want to say, i’m a hmong hunter too. second of all, i know that hmong people are causing the decrease in the squirrel population, why do i say this, because i have been squirrel hunting ever since i was kid. and trust me the squirrel population has gone down. but one thing that many of you dont realize is, most of us hmong hunters follow the regulations. i know some poeple dont, and shame on them. but you cant just blame us, we are following regulations. and its only in the public hunting land, in private land squirrels are growing. so why does it seem like the hmong hunters are killing all the squirrels. we are not, we are just limited, the same argument goes to walleye hunters. many go out and catch there limit of walleye and go back the next day, they are doing that within regulations. so if the regulations are not doing its job by controlling the population, change it for everyones sake, but dont blame people. heck the most squirrels i ever get hunting in a day is 4 if i’m lucky, so reduce bag limit if thats what makes everyone happy. but once again dont blame anybody, especially the hmong hunters. when you do that it only causes anger and frustration. better education would be the best way around, and i belive in this, being a modern hunter i am always trying my best to educate the older hmong hunters too, and they are learning fast, and they never try to do anything illegal, ounce again, stop blaming us the hmong community, we are all american hunters here, just because we choose to hunt squirrels and not pheasent, or grouse, does not make us any more guilty than the rest of any of you. and its squirrel hunting is a sport for everyone. and thanks to all of you who understand what i am saying, its important to closes the gap between culture and not make it bigger. i know the gap is getting smaller over the years i have been out, but blaming people is not the answer. so thanks to all of you who understand.
December 11, 2009 at 1:42 am #71916Quote:
but one thing that many of you dont realize is, most of us hmong hunters follow the regulations. i know some poeple dont, and shame on them.
we are just limited, the same argument goes to walleye hunters. many go out and catch there limit of walleye and go back the next day, they are doing that within regulations. so if the regulations are not doing its job by controlling the population, change it for everyones sake, but dont blame people.
when you do that it only causes anger and frustration. better education would be the best way around, and i belive in this,
being a modern hunter i am always trying my best to educate the older hmong hunters too, and they are learning fast, and they never try to do anything illegal,
All very good points.
I’m taking a shot in the dark here. When you look at the hunting industry as a whole, I’d be willing to be that squirrel hunting is put on the burner WAY in the back. It would appear to me that the dnr and other groups don’t spend days in the woods counting squirrels or improving squirrel habitat. Maybe I’m wrong.
If it is indeed a critical issue, then it will definately take a large population of concerned people to first raise awareness, then take action. But as long as there are healthy populations in private areas, it may be non-issue.December 11, 2009 at 2:56 am #71923Thank you fish_4_fun for your insight. It certainly displays your character in a good light!
One thing that we can all agree on is education is the most important element in managing our resources. This website is a tool that we can all use to educate one another.
December 11, 2009 at 3:29 am #71930Well put fish_4_fun Seems the squirrel problem in the metro, is not the only resource that is being diminished and maybe the DNR needs to monitor our resources and bag limits a little closer. Seems all I am reading these days is how the deer population is way down…. what race or people can we/they “Blame” that on ??? It should not be about placing blame (like that article and some insinuate), but rather people working together, to educate, as you said Sounds like you are doing your part to help educate some of your family and friends, I try to do the same thing, to guys who learned to hunt deer 50 years ago… seems it’s an uphill battle some days, but everybody working together, we will get there someday
December 11, 2009 at 2:13 pm #71968Very good points fish_4_fun!
I would also bet in today’s society that your culture is getting wrongfully blamed because there are quite a number of Hmong small game hunters compared to other Cultures on public ground. Therefore they are more visible and the easiset to point the finger at. Also as you stated it only takes a few bad apples to make the whole bunch look bad, no matter what culture they are from. So today’s society is changing and the rules and regs. that have worked in the past may not be the best for today. Hunting as a whole has changed drastically the last 10 years, small game hunting is no different. No one is to blame, things just change and the DNR needs to re look at some things and adapt to the change.
December 11, 2009 at 2:18 pm #71970Come on. People most certainly are the problem. Overharvesting is a problem. Whether it be fishing or hunting. It’s so convienent to hide behind the law but the fact is most people will generally decimate anything as long as the law allows it. How about some self dicipline? We can all tell when a certain species of fish or animal is in serious decline whether it be metro squirrels or my favorite small bluegill lake. If only the majority of people would not be so selfish and always wait for laws to stop them from glutony.
December 11, 2009 at 2:20 pm #71977Quote:
One thing we all have to keep in mind is that we can not label one race as being bad for hunting. That will only lead to other problems. There are good hunters out there and bad ones just like everything else in life. We as hunters must unite and continue to educate one another so that we all have successful hunting for years to come and for future generatations.
I keep going back to Brad’s post up top! It pretty much says it all right there. Well said fish!
December 11, 2009 at 2:28 pm #71991Quote:
Quote:
One thing we all have to keep in mind is that we can not label one race as being bad for hunting. That will only lead to other problems. There are good hunters out there and bad ones just like everything else in life. We as hunters must unite and continue to educate one another so that we all have successful hunting for years to come and for future generatations.
I keep going back to Brad’s post up top! It pretty much says it all right there. Well said fish!
I disagree. I think that statement over-simplifies a much bigger issue.
December 11, 2009 at 2:28 pm #71992Quote:
Come on. People most certainly are the problem.
That maybe a fair statement…but to blame a certain race is not fair! If hunters are following the rules and regs then that doesn’t make them the problem, it’s the bag limits that might need to be adjusted to improve the numbers. All I know is that it’s WRONG to blame one race over the other…period! Just my .02!
December 11, 2009 at 2:39 pm #71998
Quote:
Come on. People most certainly are the problem. Overharvesting is a problem. Whether it be fishing or hunting. It’s so convienent to hide behind the law but the fact is most people will generally decimate anything as long as the law allows it. How about some self dicipline? We can all tell when a certain species of fish or animal is in serious decline whether it be metro squirrels or my favorite small bluegill lake. If only the majority of people would not be so selfish and always wait for laws to stop them from glutony.
Suzuki I have to ask you a few things. Did you shoot or buy a license for a deer in MN or WI this year? How about a MN or IA pheasant stamp this year? It is no secret that both of those populations are drastically hurting compared to a few years ago. So how about trying some of that self dicipline? It is easy to point fingers, but maybe on needs to look at one self closer before blaming others. Just my $.02.
December 11, 2009 at 2:42 pm #71999I didnt blame a race. On the contrary it just happens that a large number of the offenders belonged to a certain race. Facts are facts. Do you think the Irish had anything to do with the walleye overharvest on Red Lake years back? I cant help it if others view this as simply a race issue thus off limits. I see a problem affecting OUR resources and I will not be intimidated by the facts. As Im sure my posts reflect I have become very passionate about our natural resources. This probably comes with age. Regardless, I try to bring the root of the problem front and center for all to see. Opinions can be baseless. Facts are not. I also try to practice what I preach which is why I have cancelled my N Wis doe hunt this weekend. Perhaps I should work on expressing my opinions because the picture you are painting of my posts is not what I am thinking.
December 11, 2009 at 3:04 pm #72011Quote:
I didnt blame a race.
“Ok, I’ll blame them. It’s blately obvious.”
A statement from your original post Susuki! It’s obvious there is an issue….but the issue has to do with the bag limits I think. Just like in WI, the hunters harvest deer legally because the DNR will allow them to shoot as many anterless deer as they want! Is that the hunters fault…not if they take them legally. (Although you should shoot only what you can consume with in a year..IMO). It’s the bag limits that need to be changed or the laws!
December 11, 2009 at 3:15 pm #72016No doubt about it – Overharvesting is a concern and sometimes a problem for certain species in a given area. On the flip side, not managing the population levels of our wildlife creates another problem. It’s a balancing act. We as hunters always need to consider putting aside our personal hunting goals and look at the bigger picture when it comes to the overall balance and success of that specie.
However, blaming or labeling a specific race or group of people for the depletion of a species is simply wrong. No one chooses their race, they inherited it.
To give you an example of bad labeling or blaming would be… The reason the squirrel numbers are low on public hunting land is because the stupid Americans killed them all. There…. now we are all to blame – including me and you (even though I haven’t shot a squirrel in 5 years).
December 11, 2009 at 3:22 pm #72017With technology advances and concentrations of hunters/fisherman, bag limits will continue to be an issue in the future and must be adjusted.
And this issue cannot be properly debated on this forum.December 11, 2009 at 3:31 pm #72019Quote:
With technology advances and concentrations of hunters/fisherman, bag limits will continue to be an issue in the future and must be adjusted.
And this issue cannot be properly debated on this forum.
Ok so do us all a favor and stop debating and pointing fingers on this forum
eye_hunterPosts: 517December 14, 2009 at 1:08 pm #72271thanks to all of you who understand what i meant by not blaming one single race. suzuki, i understand your point and concern too. dont get mad or angry, every issue is still an issue to be dealt with. i have read through your post and will try my best to help teach other hmong hunters too, so that we all can work together to preserve our resources. so dont get angry. the last thing i want from this is anger from people.
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