Questions on trolling with Lead core

Planning to fish for kokanee using trolling with lead core.

Going to get following gear soon:
Rod: G. Loomis E6X Salmon 964C BBR GH medium heavy fast action)

Casting Reel: Not sure yet but will have line counter.

Main Line : Sufix 832 Advanced lead core 18 lbs.

Leader: 20lbs mono

Few basic questions:
1) I read multiple forums about lead core giving 5’ depth for a color. Is that assuming trolling at 2 mph? At 0 mph will entire lead core line sink (I.e. full depth) ? Sufix provides no published numbers.

2) Am I correct to say that higher rated lead core lines (e.g. 25 lb rated) do not change the above 5’ dive numbers ?

3) Many YouTube videos show first reeling in backing line (mono or braid) on spool before lead core. What is that backing line needed for ?
My plan is to simply reel in 6-8 colors of lead core and then attach 25’ mono leader at its end so that lead core line visibility or motor noise doesn’t spook fish. I can use lead core line colors to calculate depth in feet (not going to use line counter here). Is that good enough ?

4) What casting reel size is good for reeling in 6-8 colors of lead core ?

Thanks

You for sure need at least 100 yards of backing on it. You let all the lead out and fish makes run when it hits, then what?
I would recommend a line counter for sure. Lead is all about repeating what’s working over and over and the line counter helps a lot. Can be done without but easier with.

Yep, you’ll definitely want backer. 40lb braid works well (make sure to tape the spool or have a short piece of mono under it to keep from slipping)

Standard LC sinks about 5′ a color at 2.2, superline/micro/advanced is more like 7′ at 2.2. Your speed and lure choice will vary the exact depth it’s running (a deep crank will be lower than a flasher fly), but don’t get caught up in the exact numbers. When salmon fishing your fishing columns of water, not trying to hover just off bottom like when contour trolling for walleyes.

I’d also recommend going with a bigger reel and get 10 full colors on it with plenty of backer.

With 18lb 832 a size 45 Convector would work.

Spool the reel backwards to build it and get a full spool.

Wind on your leader, then leadcore, then fill it completely with backer.

If you have an area long enough (like a road ditch or field) walk all of the line off, then reel it on the opposite way (so it’s on your reel the right way).

If not, take a drill with an empty spool and wind it on there (a short piece of threaded rod and nuts works great), your leader and leadcore will be on top.

Then, take another empty spool and reel it onto that (now your braid will be on top).

Lastly, reel in off that spool back onto your reel (the leader and leadcore will be on top), resulting in a perfectly filled spool.

It’s even easier if you’re making a pair of identical set ups.

One the first reel, wind on the leadcore, then wind on braid until full.

Now on the second reel, zero the counter and wind on the braid, also keep an exact count of passes. Stop when the leadcore is about to wind on and right both of those numbers down.

Now you know EXACTLY how much braid to reel on.

Continue winding the leadcore onto the second reel until the first reel is empty, there’s no need to keep track of numbers or passes since it’s a fixed amount of line (say 10 colors)

Your first reel is now empty. Wind on xxxx’ and xxx’ passes (the numbers you wrote down earlier), the wind on your 10 colors of leadcore.

Thanks for the tips. Great info.

I’m however still not sure why backer is needed. If I spool all 10 colors on the reel and use only max 6 then remaining 4 are backup already.

Based on what the_hat replied, I’m thinking backer only makes sense if either spool capacity cannot accommodate all 10 colors in which case one would spool only the number of colors they need and back it up with smaller diameter line OR the plan is to use all 10 colors.

This video from an expert simply has LC with leader attached at the end which is what I had on mind too.

https://m.youtube.com/watch

Backer is needed for salmon unless you’re catching small fish.

I’ve never fished for Kokanee, but Chinook (Kings) will easily pull 100′ of drag per 10lbs of fish. It’s nothing for a 25lb king to smash a spoon and take 250′ of backer off your reel. The most I’ve ever had a fish take was 330′.

That’s like fishing 10 colors of leadcore and having a fish burn off another 11 colors.

Also, you don’t want to start reeling in (anything) with an empty spool. If your reel is a 4:1 or 6:1 with a full spool, it’s a .x:1 with an empty (takes forever to gain ground or pull lines)

Your link to an “expert” isn’t working for me, but from your description he sounds like a newbie. In your first post you said “many” people show adding backer, there’s a reason for that (big fish and ability run weighted lines on planer boards)

You aren’t out anything by setting it up correctly (bigger reel with backer), do it right the first time and avoid getting spooled = losing $50+ in tackle/line, along with the fish

I’d skip the $350 trolling rod and put your money into a quality reel, or better yet a pair of them matched up with $50-$100 rods.

Some amazing person on here made a dive chart for 5 foot and 7 foot. I have it in my boat and love to pass it on to anyone learning lead core. It works amazingly.

Matthew Sandys wrote:

I have it in my boat and love to pass it on to anyone learning lead core. It works amazingly.

I would like a copy please. Started pulling lead last year.

Send you a PM.
Anyone else please send me a PM

B-man wrote:

I’d skip the $350 trolling rod and put your money into a quality reel, or better yet a pair of them matched up with $50-$100 rods.

I logged in just to say this exactly. Shoot I’d even go for a daiwa wilderness which is even less than your budget. It’s a trolling rod, don’t overdo it. Caught lots of fish on shimano tdr’s.

Are these the dive charts you are referring to?

http://www.in-depthoutdoors.com/community/forums/topic/5-7-leadcore-trolling-charts-pdf/

B-man wrote:

Backer is needed for salmon unless you’re catching small fish.

I’ve never fished for Kokanee, but Chinook (Kings) will easily pull 100′ of drag per 10lbs of fish. It’s nothing for a 25lb king to smash a spoon and take 250′ of backer off your reel. The most I’ve ever had a fish take was 330′.

That’s like fishing 10 colors of leadcore and having a fish burn off another 11 colors.

Also, you don’t want to start reeling in (anything) with an empty spool. If your reel is a 4:1 or 6:1 with a full spool, it’s a .x:1 with an empty (takes forever to gain ground or pull lines)

Your link to an “expert” isn’t working for me, but from your description he sounds like a newbie. In your first post you said “many” people show adding backer, there’s a reason for that (big fish and ability run weighted lines on planer boards)

You aren’t out anything by setting it up correctly (bigger reel with backer), do it right the first time and avoid getting spooled = losing $50+ in tackle/line, along with the fish

I’d skip the $350 trolling rod and put your money into a quality reel, or better yet a pair of them matched up with $50-$100 rods.

Thanks. That explains it well now why I should put backer.

Will checkout size 45 reel you mentioned too. Anything to look in Rod other than medium heavy for trolling ? Is fast action good ? I also want to reuse the same rod for jigging.

Frank, the best trolling rods are M or MH moderate glass rods.

They make for terrible jigging rods, but you’re not going to jig with leadcore.

B-man wrote:

Frank, the best trolling rods are M or MH moderate glass rods.

They make for terrible jigging rods, but you’re not going to jig with leadcore.

Or a 45 Convector.

B-man has given some good advice.
I don’t think Kokanee get very big? Like 5 lbs is big isn’t it?

Ripjiggen wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>B-man wrote:</div>
Frank, the best trolling rods are M or MH moderate glass rods.

They make for terrible jigging rods, but you’re not going to jig with leadcore.

Or a 45 Convector.

B-man has given some good advice.

Ok thanks. Did not want to put money into buying another rod when I do jigging. So was looking for something that can work for both applications- trolling and jigging. Sounds like that will not be ideal.

Jig rods are not leadcore rods and leadcore rods are not jig rods…The best thing about a leadcore rod is they can be had for CHEAP. Look into the Okuma GLT rods, $40-50 and work very well. You will have a much more enjoyable experience if you buy technique specific rods for your application.

B-man wrote:

Frank, the best trolling rods are M or MH moderate glass rods.

They make for terrible jigging rods, but you’re not going to jig with leadcore.

Browndog wrote:

Jig rods are not leadcore rods and leadcore rods are not jig rods…The best thing about a leadcore rod is they can be had for CHEAP. Look into the Okuma GLT rods, $40-50 and work very well. You will have a much more enjoyable experience if you buy technique specific rods for your application.

Thanks everyone. So, I will narrow down the selection to

Okuma CP-CL-862M Rod

Okuma CV-45DS Reel -> This does not give specification for Lead core line capacity though. How do I know how many colors with backer it can hold ?
Mono capacity is. 20/580 25/430 30/330

You can fit a buttload of lead on a 45 series. 12 colors with backing would be no problem.

I’m not sure where you’re fishing Kokanee Frank but where I’ve fished them in CA and OR, they are pretty small fish and don’t require heavy gear, line, etc. Most Koke’s in CA and OR are 15 to maybe 20 inches, so seldom above 1.5 or 2 lbs. The one big exception to that rule is Flaming Gorge where they do get up to 4 lbs or so. I found down riggers to be most productive with snap weights on flat lines coming in second. Lead core can work, and I’ve caught Koke’s on it, but I’ve also drown a lot of little ones that I had no idea were on the lead. If your Koke waters are similar to the ones I fished, I’d recommend medium/light rigger rods with 10 lb mono for a primary setup. You can stack lines on one downrigger to get two rods out on the same rigger and hit different depths. Koke’s have VERY soft mouths and they thrash like crazy as soon as they get close enough to feel vibrations from the motor. They get off the line OFTEN. There are days where a 50% landing rate is good. For this reason you want lighter line and a softer rod to help absorb the fight close to the boat. They are not big enough to make runs, but rather just little thrashing devils near the boat. If you want more lines in the water then I’d suggest flat lines with 10-12 lb mono and use verious size snap weights 20 feet ahead of the bait to achieve your desired depth.

Koke’s typically like a slow troll. 0.9 to 1.2 is probably most common where I fished, so if you do use lead, it will sink more than advertised.

Good Luck! and post pictures if you have success.

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That’s kind of what I thought for size and would think a walleye lead core setup would be more appropriate, but never really fished specifically for them.

to_setter wrote:

I’m not sure where you’re fishing Kokanee Frank but where I’ve fished them in CA and OR, they are pretty small fish and don’t require heavy gear, line, etc. Most Koke’s in CA and OR are 15 to maybe 20 inches, so seldom above 1.5 or 2 lbs. The one big exception to that rule is Flaming Gorge where they do get up to 4 lbs or so. I found down riggers to be most productive with snap weights on flat lines coming in second. Lead core can work, and I’ve caught Koke’s on it, but I’ve also drown a lot of little ones that I had no idea were on the lead. If your Koke waters are similar to the ones I fished, I’d recommend medium/light rigger rods with 10 lb mono for a primary setup. You can stack lines on one downrigger to get two rods out on the same rigger and hit different depths. Koke’s have VERY soft mouths and they thrash like crazy as soon as they get close enough to feel vibrations from the motor. They get off the line OFTEN. There are days where a 50% landing rate is good. For this reason you want lighter line and a softer rod to help absorb the fight close to the boat. They are not big enough to make runs, but rather just little thrashing devils near the boat. If you want more lines in the water then I’d suggest flat lines with 10-12 lb mono and use verious size snap weights 20 feet ahead of the bait to achieve your desired depth.

Koke’s typically like a slow troll. 0.9 to 1.2 is probably most common where I fished, so if you do use lead, it will sink more than advertised.

Good Luck! and post pictures if you have success.

Thanks and yes the range you described sounds about what I should expect when fishing in WA.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/species/oncorhynchus-nerka-kokanee

I do not have downrigger which is why I am going with Lead Core line. So, LC will not be sensitive to give feedback if Kokanee took a bite ? I am going with Medium power, Mod-Fast action e-glass rod (Okuma CP-CL-862M – 2 pc) based on feedback on this thread.

Will use fishhawk to gauge depth (55 F is what I know is Kokanee preferred) and then do the math with LC line to get to that depth, attach 24″ leader line to LC line end rigged with 4/0 size (4” in length) dicknite dodger + #2 size Wedding ring spinner (with #6 hook) + Gulp waxies bait

Ripjiggen wrote:

That’s kind of what I thought for size and would think a walleye lead core setup would be more appropriate, but never really fished specifically for them.

How would walleye LC setup look like ? For Kokanee I am planning to use Dodger + Wedding Ring + Gulp Waxies bait on 24″ leader line that is attached to the end of LC line (at the required depth).

Lighter rod lighter lead and smaller line counter real.

I didn’t realize Kokanee were so small.

I’d go with 12lb 832 and a smaller reel on a ML rod, more fun to catch than on heavy gear. That’s how I have my walleye combos set-up.

If you’re worried aobut not having a down rigger, another approach would be to use dipsy divers. Very easy to use. Check my post last week about “slammin salmon on lake michigan”.

Slammin’ Salmon on Lake Michigan