PSA: Big buddy heater/wheelhouse owners

Working in the fish house the other day I decided to fire up my big buddy just to see how well it heated the shack. I bring it along on trips as backup to my backup (first backup is 2- 1500w electric milk house heaters). These backups are just in case my furnace takes a crap on a trip. So far knock on wood, I’ve only had furnace trouble twice and I’ve been able to troubleshoot and fix the problem before needing the backup. Anyways, I got a slight headache and felt lightheaded but just thought it was the Busch Light on an empty stomach. This week I got to thinking about it and I thought what If it was carbon monoxide when I went on a C.O. call out at work. So I decided I better check that out. Fired it up today and had my CGI turned on. I checked on it 1/2 hour later when I walked by the FH and heard the alarm going off. It wasn’t CO that was making me light headed, the heater was depleting the oxygen. Take this warning how you want. I’m still going to bring it along as 3rd backup, but I will never let my family go to sleep with this as our main source of heat. 1/2 hour in it went from 20.5% oxygen to 18.6%. That’s with the ceiling fan running so I know the air was well mixed. And the CGI was not right next to the heater. It was all the way across the fish house.

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How much do those CGI’s cost? and where to buy?

Summerontheriver wrote:

How much do those CGI’s cost? and where to buy?

They’re a couple grand bud.

Great warning. I too have used my Big Buddy in the wheelhouse and after a couple hours had a pounding headache. And this was with windows open for ventilation and two CO detectors. They never went off but the low oxygen sensor on the device went off. Figured that was a good warning to stop what I was doing as well.

We use them at work, but I cant take one home, different brand, Oilfield, we have ones that test Oxygen, Benzene and H2S.

Never knew they cost that much…

Thanks for the eye opener, wont be sleeping with a buddy heater running.

I’m looking into a wood stove, but that will deplete Oxygen as well.

@munchy. It would be interesting to see at what level the low oxygen level shuts the unit off…..

@Summerontheriver I literally trust this unit with my life almost daily. They can be programmed for all kinds of gases.

Any heater that uses a combustion source like a Big Buddy heater burning propane depletes oxygen and can give off carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide in the process, especially if used in a closed space or there is a problem with your heater.
In the presence of excess oxygen as is the case in a well ventilated area, propane burns to form water and carbon dioxide. When not enough oxygen is present for complete combustion as in a wheel house that is not well ventilated or if your heater is not burning properly, incomplete combustion occurs when propane burns and forms water, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide,and carbon. The oxygen sensor on a Big Buddy is supposed to shut the heater off when the oxygen level gets low enough to cause incomplete combustion but I’ve seen too many sensors fail to trust them with my life. I’m guessing that the high CO level will kill you before the low oxygen level does but does it really make any difference?
In a closed space like a wheelhouse, Big Buddy heaters or any heater using combustion as a heat source can be fatal if conditions are right. (I’m a degree’d chemist)

Be careful!

Carbon monoxide kills. A Big Buddy produces very little CO when running perfect with full atmospheric Oxygen. But if oxygen level gets depleted it will burn dirtier creating increased CO. Even if you crack a window you can still over time develop CO poisoning. Hemoglobin, the oxygen carrying cell in your blood will choose CO over oxygen. Bottom line, at least for me is, I won’t stay in a structure if the combustible heat producing appliance’s combustion gases are not vented to the outside.

castle-rock-clown wrote:

Carbon monoxide kills. A Big Buddy produces very little CO when running perfect with full atmospheric Oxygen. But if oxygen level gets depleted it will burn dirtier creating increased CO. Even if you crack a window you can still over time develop CO poisoning. Hemoglobin, the oxygen carrying cell in your blood will choose CO over oxygen. Bottom line, at least for me is, I won’t stay in a structure if the combustible heat producing appliance’s combustion gases are not vented to the outside.

yup.

If the oxygen is being depleted, isn’t CO filling the void?
I guess my question is why isn’t the CO detector going off?

Clearly I’m not a chemist, just curious.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

If the oxygen is being depleted, isn’t CO filling the void?
I guess my question is why isn’t the CO detector going off?

Clearly I’m not a chemist, just curious.

It most likely will go off at some point. My CGI started at 0ppm and was at 10ppm CO when I decided to shut the buddy heater off in roughly a half hours time. It was slowly increasing but the Oxygen levels were decreasing much faster. I’m sure at some point as stated above as more and more oxygen is depleted, more CO will be produced. Hopefully the units safety shuts it off or CO detector goes off. CO detectors are a timed alarm. Meaning that it measures both co and time. A smaller amount over a long period of time will set it off. I think it’s 60ppm over 8 hours is what OSHA believes is the maximum allowed exposure rate, this should sound the alarm, as well as if it gets blasted with 4-500ppm in a much shorter amount of time.

THANK YOU

So much good information written in the above responses. I just don’t get why folks seem to ignore this every year.

Oh god, I just realized I quoted OSHA?!?!? My wife is right. When the kids ask her something and she doesn’t know, she tells them ask your dad he’s an undercover nerd….

Eelpoutguy wrote:

If the oxygen is being depleted, isn’t CO filling the void?
I guess my question is why isn’t the CO detector going off?

Clearly I’m not a chemist, just curious.

Great question and good answer above. Everyone should look at your CO detector and it will shock you at the levels they are designed to go off. If I had a sleeper, I’d purchase a “low level” CO detector.

CO detectors are not always perfect.

But here is food for further thought. People have lived in their homes throughout many winters without a problem. Obviously there more than enough oxygen. Then a cracked heat exchanger unknowingly happens and you read about the family in the newspaper, in the obituaries.

It’s not about how much oxygen there is, it all about how much Carbon monoxide is available to be breathed in. The insidious aspect is that your red blood cells have a greater affinity to Carbon Monoxide over Oxygen. That’s why someone exposed has rosey red skin. The CO has saturated your hemoglobin preventing uptake of Oxygen. No Oxygen and you get cell death.

How old is your big buddy? Just wondering if the newer ones are better set up to shut off in low O2.

BTW I guess a good thing is you know your ice house is pretty tight.

Should you have 2nd CO detector in your wheelhouse? How about one of those wall mount/stand alone fireplaces as a 2nd heat source?

Doug M wrote:

Should you have 2nd CO detector in your wheelhouse? How about one of those wall mount/stand alone fireplaces as a 2nd heat source?

I bought a 2nd CO detector for my wheelhouse along with the factory one that it has.

Doug M wrote:

Should you have 2nd CO detector in your wheelhouse? How about one of those wall mount/stand alone fireplaces as a 2nd heat source?

If it uses any fuel to provide heat and the combustion gasses are not vented to the outside you will have CO accumulating in an enclosed structure. There is no such thing as perfect combustion.

Coletrain27 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Doug M wrote:</div>
Should you have 2nd CO detector in your wheelhouse? How about one of those wall mount/stand alone fireplaces as a 2nd heat source?

I bought a 2nd CO detector for my wheelhouse along with the factory one that it has.

Did you put in another factory detector, or a different one?

Doug M wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Coletrain27 wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Doug M wrote:</div>
Should you have 2nd CO detector in your wheelhouse? How about one of those wall mount/stand alone fireplaces as a 2nd heat source?

I bought a 2nd CO detector for my wheelhouse along with the factory one that it has.

Did you put in another factory detector, or a different one?

I got a battery operated one like this from menards. I have 2 of them in my home also

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Coletrain27 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Doug M wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Coletrain27 wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Doug M wrote:</div>
Should you have 2nd CO detector in your wheelhouse? How about one of those wall mount/stand alone fireplaces as a 2nd heat source?

I bought a 2nd CO detector for my wheelhouse along with the factory one that it has.

Did you put in another factory detector, or a different one?

I got a battery operated one like this from menards. I have 2 of them in my home also

thanks

CO detectors have a lifespan besides their batteries. Their sensors become less sensitive and less accurate in 5 to 10 years depending on model and conditions. 7 year replacement cycles are the average.

castle-rock-clown wrote:

CO detectors have a lifespan besides their batteries. Their sensors become less sensitive and less accurate in 5 to 10 years depending on model and conditions. 7 year replacement cycles are the average.

Yes. Most of them have a built in cycle on them that tell you when the life cycle is up

What about the guys using buddy heaters in those smaller spray foamed aluminum skid houses? Wouldn’t that be even more dangerous?

Ventilation is critical for any unvented heater. If anyone would read the instructions, all the info is in there.

I don’t have a big wheelhouse but use the big buddy occasionally in a spear house.

I mostly use it in my non insulated pullover clam. Usually never had a chance to build up bad air. Gotta grab a beer or pee.

I know this is serious, just making a little funny is all.