Protesters on Mille Lacs

  • pool2fool
    Inactive
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 1709
    #1703889

    Can someone coherently explain to me why there is so much denial about the effects the treaty has had, and the Power it has placed in the hands of the GLIFWC.

    Opinion: politicians are like #1 ranked boxers, they don’t want to fight anybody they aren’t pretty sure they can win. Unless the money is too good to pass up.

    With the Supreme Court already having ruled on this, do you think sondra Erickson or any other peon in the state legislature likes their odds?

    I’m not saying it’s right but I believe there’s some tough truth there.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22454
    #1703890

    Part of the ruling was to “manage” the resource, as to not deplete it… this was the BIG FAILURE in all of this. That and the sloppy “monitoring” of activities at the lake, whether it be netting, spearing or angling that took place in the still booming years at first. If the ruling was to be followed.. it wasn’t. As evidenced by the diminishing limits, slots and the ultimate lake closure.

    pool2fool
    Inactive
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 1709
    #1703891

    Part of the ruling was to “manage” the resource, as to not deplete it… this was the BIG FAILURE in all of this. That and the sloppy “monitoring” of activities at the lake, whether it be netting, spearing or angling that took place in the still booming years at first. If the ruling was to be followed.. it wasn’t. As evidenced by the diminishing limits, slots and the ultimate lake closure.

    I’m not disputing that. I’m just saying politicians are fickle and to them this looks like a HARD fight.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22454
    #1703911

    Agreed, the easy fight would be proving the lake was mismanaged, by the DNR and GLIFWC. Sad part is, I think they are getting exactly what they wanted… that is the thing that could be proven with mountains of evidence over the years. There has been MANY stories written, telling this tale that is now played out. The DNR and the GLIFWC ignored all the prophets and fell back on “blue ribbon panels” that they
    “hired & paid” to place the blame on everything but them. The last blue ribbon panel, I believe I read that not one panel member even visited the lake or area during their “findings” and have never even seen the lake.

    jeff_huberty
    Inactive
    Posts: 4941
    #1703934

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>jeff_huberty wrote:</div>
    Can someone coherently explain to me why there is so much denial about the effects the treaty has had, and the Power it has placed in the hands of the GLIFWC.

    Opinion: politicians are like #1 ranked boxers, they don’t want to fight anybody they aren’t pretty sure they can win. Unless the money is too good to pass up.

    With the Supreme Court already having ruled on this, do you think sondra Erickson or any other peon in the state legislature likes their odds?

    I’m not saying it’s right but I believe there’s some tough truth there.

    Ohhh helllpp no,I don’t think there is snowballs chance in hadezes that she or any politician moves a bill forward on the treaty issue. If she has no will to provide a solution then she should hold her comments on the issue.
    IMHO She is the type who is willing to instigate a fight then turn and run away in the middle of the battle.

    mikek
    Brainerd-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 183
    #1703948

    I still don’t get any of this!!
    Why are we trying to turn a lake know across country as “The Walleye Factory” into a world class bass and muskie lake!
    I also agree that most bass fisherman don’t spend as much as the walleye guys! Sun goes down and the bass guys head home. Sun goes down the walleye guys come out! Rent launches, Ice shacks, cabins and rooms so they dont drive after being out all night! How many are fishing bass at night? Renting an Ice shack?
    Good, bad, cold wet weather the walleye guys are out because they probably reserved their place a year ahead. Hell I even bought property up there because of the walleye fishing!

    nubbinbuck
    Posts: 922
    #1704024

    I met Linda at Twin Pines a few weeks ago. She was very cordial, and it was a pleasure to listen to her talk about the state of the lake…

    1hl&sinker
    On the St.Croix
    Posts: 2501
    #1704272

    I just dont get the atraction to this lake or any other lake that promises a good catch rate.

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1704333

    In this mornings Star Tribune there was an article by Dennis Anderson. He is a columnist and therefore this is his opinion on the protest, however he is respected by many and most of what he puts to pen comes with credibility and his highly regarded reputation. He points out another version of last Saturdays protest and how it all unfolded and what resulted.

    http://www.startribune.com/boorish-mille-lacs-protesters-miss-point/434284153/

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1704335

    His version is spot on with the quotes you posted here. They shot themselves in the foot.

    BigWerm
    SW Metro
    Posts: 11636
    #1704344

    They shot themselves in the foot.

    Why not at this point? Seriously how many committee’s, sub-committee’s, work groups, study groups etc. have business owners around Mille Lacs been asked to participate in, yet here we are with 2 summers in a row of C&R including a month+ closed entirely each year. I am not saying the resort’s haven’t played a role in getting to this point, but to think that they should sit back and meet with Dayton again and let the Gov’t attempt to come and help them again would literally be insane.

    Also, (and maybe this should be it’s own topic) Dennis Anderson is a wonderful writer, who can pen flowery prose describing a Montana trout stream with the best of them, but the closest he comes to representing MN sportsmen is promoting PF, DU and other organizations. Same with Ron Schara, who as far as I know has never gone hunting or fishing without a paid guide. I’ve seen Al Lindner out on Mille Lacs numerous times the last few years, yet good luck getting him to come out in support of the people and lake that primarily built his empire. And finally, caught Billy Hildebrand on KFAN going on a rant against the Mille Lacs resorts last night. If these are the people in media representing us, no wonder we never get anywhere.

    nhamm
    Inactive
    Robbinsdale
    Posts: 7348
    #1704352

    Excellent points werm.

    There’s a discussion to be had on protests in general nowadays. Peaceful protests haven’t seemed to get anywhere in the last decade, sure they’ve had some great ones as far as attendance and longevity but actual policy change hasn’t followed suit.

    Maybe that’s what our society is geared to now, crazy off the wall stuff gets noticed and all that peaceful crap runs down the sink.

    Begs the question then, maybe the Mille Lacs protesters didn’t go far enough?

    Jon Jordan
    Keymaster
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 6019
    #1704355

    Also, (and maybe this should be it’s own topic) Dennis Anderson is a wonderful writer, who can pen flowery prose describing a Montana trout stream with the best of them, but the closest he comes to representing MN sportsmen is promoting PF, DU and other organizations. Same with Ron Schara, who as far as I know has never gone hunting or fishing without a paid guide. I’ve seen Al Lindner out on Mille Lacs numerous times the last few years, yet good luck getting him to come out in support of the people and lake that primarily built his empire. And finally, caught Billy Hildebrand on KFAN going on a rant against the Mille Lacs resorts last night. If these are the people in media representing us, no wonder we never get anywhere.

    Amen to that! waytogo

    Also, the protest was right. A few bad eggs ruined it for everyone.

    -J.

    sktrwx2200
    Posts: 727
    #1704360

    BIG WERM!!
    I know we have been on opposite sides on other issues before but……..
    applause waytogo

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1704396

    Also, the protest was right. A few bad eggs ruined it for everyone.

    -J.

    I have no opinion on whether the protest was right or wrong. It is what happened at the protest where my opinion forms a disapproval.

    I will offer one more observation and then just leave this alone. It was the goal or intent of the protest organizers to bring attention to how the regs and shutdown has negatively affected the resorts and other area businesses. Obviously anglers and citizens were encouraged to join to have a voice as well and offer their support. After going back and doing an inventory of all the resorts and area businesses, it is apparent that only a very small handful or percentage supported, promoted, encouraged, communicated, and/or participated in this protest. So at least 90% of them (the resorts and businesses) were completely silent regarding this “boat rally” and this was BEFORE it even took place. I think that is very telling that most believed this was an ill-fated exercise and wanted no part of it. I have also heard that even Mille Lacs Tourism Bureau was not at all in support of this. So what may have been good intention to bring the frustrations of the business community to the governor and anyone else willing to listen, the majority of them now feel that they have taken a step major backwards.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1704399

    Also, (and maybe this should be it’s own topic) Dennis Anderson is a wonderful writer, who can pen flowery prose describing a Montana trout stream with the best of them, but the closest he comes to representing MN sportsmen is promoting PF, DU and other organizations. Same with Ron Schara, who as far as I know has never gone hunting or fishing without a paid guide. I’ve seen Al Lindner out on Mille Lacs numerous times the last few years, yet good luck getting him to come out in support of the people and lake that primarily built his empire. And finally, caught Billy Hildebrand on KFAN going on a rant against the Mille Lacs resorts last night. If these are the people in media representing us, no wonder we never get anywhere.

    Might have to tune in to Bear Facts And Fish Tails on Sunday. Need to hear their insightful opinions in there too.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1704400

    So what may have been good intention to bring the frustrations of the business community to the governor and anyone else willing to listen, the majority of them now feel that they have taken a step major backwards.

    Well said. Once again just read the comment sections. Nobody is on our side. Nobody.

    john23
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 2578
    #1704423

    I couldn’t agree more with Dennis Anderson’s opinion piece:

    “Gov. Mark Dayton can be forgiven if he chooses not to help Mille Lacs area residents and business owners any further during his final 18 months in office.”

    Let’s not forget that Dayton ordered fishing to remain open last year to try to help the resorts. He also signed a bill that offered some economic support. One year later there’s a protest from at least some of the same people he tried to help, when he’s there trying to help them again.

    It seems to me that resorts and anglers are going to have to accept that the treaty is a valid contract as to tribal fishing rights. Unless or until this happens, it’s a rural MN version of Israel and Palestine fighting over walleyes instead of land. And people on the outside will never understand it.

    It would also help if the resorts coordinated a little better so that they weren’t fighting among themselves. Angry, fragmented groups always have a hard time.

    If a large majority of the resorts and locals established a formal organization, which established an alliance with the tribe, and then negotiated among themselves to reach a single position the two groups would present to the state … that might be a powerful voice.

    On the other hand, I mostly C&R and I’ve never had more fun on the lake than I’ve had over the past three years. I’m not keeping their lights on, but I’ve made a couple of trips to the Red Door because of it. Maybe I’ll check out Fisher’s next time.

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16650
    #1704472

    Any time you want to negotiate something it takes two willing parties. GLIFWC has no interest in meeting with anybody, and why should they? They have it all now so any negotiation would be going backwards.

    mbenson
    Minocqua, WI
    Posts: 1709
    #1704575

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>biggill wrote:</div>

    Also, (and maybe this should be it’s own topic) Dennis Anderson is a wonderful writer, who can pen flowery prose describing a Montana trout stream with the best of them, but the closest he comes to representing MN sportsmen is promoting PF, DU and other organizations. Same with Ron Schara, who as far as I know has never gone hunting or fishing without a paid guide. I’ve seen Al Lindner out on Mille Lacs (ML) numerous times the last few years, yet good luck getting him to come out in support of the people and lake that primarily built his empire. And finally, caught Billy Hildebrand on KFAN going on a rant against the Mille Lacs resorts last night. If these are the people in media representing us, no wonder we never get anywhere.

    I like points on both sides of this conversation, but I offer this regarding Schara:
    http://perm.org/articles/Save_MN_Walleye_Stadium.html?utm_content=Suzy&utm_source=VerticalResponse&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Read%20more&utm_campaign=Media%20catching%20on:%20%27walleye%20stadium%27%20needs%20helpcontent

    and Lindner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKeKJsj3XoU

    Either of these pieces might not do what you claim that they should, but both of them have said their piece and I believe that they trying to support the fishery and it businesses by offering the best info regarding the fishery. That’s the needed part!!! Lindner Media, even though paid for the advertising, I would bet that the current advertising piece “Do the Lake” may have been filmed by them, although I don’t know. Their current “Angling Buzz” advertising shows off ML, again probably being paid for but they are trying to help…

    Again neither of these things helps the current political status, but both of them are supporting the best of Mille Lacs.

    Mark

    DANIEL GRANGER
    Posts: 1
    #1704585

    The resort owners and business around the lake were not wrong to protest when our Governor decided to visit. Did he expect to be greeted with open arms? They just come off a very good holiday week end, highlighting the great Walleye fishing on Mille Lacs and then they shut it down with some very questionable timing. Mr. Dayton then comes to town that weekend and wants to promote the Great Bass Fishing? I compare that to going to the Cadillac dealer and promote and sell KIAS. They drive down the roads kind of the same, just not what you really came here for.

    jeff_huberty
    Inactive
    Posts: 4941
    #1704594

    What possibly can you expect from the current governor or any other future governor,they are sworn in to uphold the laws of the state. The Governor and the DNR have no choice other than to honor the terms of the treaty.
    Can a sitting governor change the DNR policies? Absolutely.
    But as Dutch boy stated,the GLIFWC drive any negotiations,and are the only ones who can choose when and how they harvest their quota.

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1704612

    OOOOHHHH NOOOOO… I was hoping that wouldnt be the boat in question….. redface

    Admire you Andy for reporting the facts.. im sure it wasnt easy to post that.

    I feel that is important to circle back on this. I never opined or accused Red Door of any of this malicious participation. Knowing what I do about them left me in total disbelief that they were involved at all. I was just presenting factual information and evidence. I have been corresponding with Steve Kulifaj at Red Door and wanted to share his response before any of you decide or cancel intentions on further patronizing Red Door Resort. I will be there for the entire last week of July with a family contingent. Looking forward to it.

    Steve’s message…

    “Andy, I can assure you that our boat did not go out with any intentions to do harm; quite the opposite. Anyone that knows my wife or I or our resort know that we would not stand for that. Last minute, a few idiots from another resort hopped on and we made a mistake in letting them. I was on another pontoon or I would have drown those kids myself. Once they got disruptive, our driver and a few other on the boat tried to silence them a few times and finally had to head back. I was appalled by the behavior and immediately made apologies to the Fishers and others. Please don’t let the actions of a few outweigh the intentions of the many. The fact that the Mille Lacs issues were exposed nationally was a win as being silent has done nothing for the lake. We appreciate your patronage and can speak further next weekend.”

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16650
    #1704623

    To hold the Red Door responsible for the actions of a few dickheads would be like holding currant day Americans responsible for the actions of say 1800’s Americans. coffee

    Just think about that for a minute.

    Tom Sawvell
    Inactive
    Posts: 9559
    #1704645

    To hold the Red Door responsible for the actions of a few dickheads would be like holding currant day Americans responsible for the actions of say 1800’s Americans. coffee

    Just think about that for a minute.

    Think it’ll sell Dutchy?

    john23
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 2578
    #1704672

    To hold the Red Door responsible for the actions of a few dickheads would be like holding currant day Americans responsible for the actions of say 1800’s Americans. coffee

    Just think about that for a minute.

    Or even the 1700’s Americans! Say, 1776? lol

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22454
    #1704705

    some people know they are not forced to live here….. right ?

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