Protesters on Mille Lacs

Can I disown this thread? I’m not really sure what good any of this conversation is.

I think I’m done walleye fishing . Lake Superior here I come.

crappie55369 wrote:

I’m with you pool2fool. With toms logic the French are waiting To take the Louisiana purchase back because “we dont need it anymore”.

Oh and by the way tom to ask the question as to why the natives family reunion can’t look just like yours and they should be happy with that is unbelievably ignorant and offensive. Also many of us fisherman have brown and black hair not blond. you may wish we were all blond haired and blue eyed but that hasn’t been in vogue since the 40’s.

Yowza. As much as I appreciate the support, I’m going to try to keep the attacks trained on Tom’s ridiculously faulty logic and not at the human behind it.

Besides the personal blows are hardly necessary when he’s hanging himself perfectly well on his own. I’m still laughing at the “discrimination” card. Umm, Tom — Asians, Whites, Blacks, Latinos, etc. — none of them were inhabiting the land since 1750 like the Ojibwe, and none of them have a treaty that gives them usufructuary rights. The Ojibwe do.

biggill wrote:

Can I disown this thread? I’m not really sure what good any of this conversation is.

Yeah I guess I’ll shut up now. The pot seems sufficiently stirred.

Back to the protest. With all that happened, the name calling, racial slurs, etc. I don’t agree with it. But I do agree with the protest itself. It was good to raise some awareness and get a little more attention from the media. It might not have been the best attention for everyone involved, but it looks like it might have worked a little.

http://www.startribune.com/dayton-says-walleye-restrictions-on-lake-mille-lacs-could-be-eased/433706493/

Do you mind pasting the article? I guess I used up my free articles for the month and can’t see it.
DT

I have the same problem on my phone. Here you are DT

Gov. Mark Dayton, seen on Mille Lacs during the May 30 fishing opener, canceled a meeting with local business owners Saturday after 75 protesters in boats encircled him on the lake to protest a temporary ban on walleye fishing.

Two days after his fishing trip was interrupted by a protest flotilla on Lake Mille Lacs, Gov. Mark Dayton said the state will conduct a new walleye survey of the lake and possibly ease the fishing restrictions that prompted the demonstration.

The state Department of Natural Resources will sample the walleye population this fall, Dayton said Monday. If the fish are thriving, as critics of the restrictions say they seem to be, the state would revisit its regulations and catch limits on the popular lake.

Dayton said he’s hoping that the survey will back up local reports that a healthy population of walleye is back and biting on Mille Lacs, one of the state’s premier walleye fishing destinations.

More than 25 boats carrying protesters circled the governor’s boat as he fished for bass on Saturday. The demonstrators were holding up signs and protesting a three-week temporary ban on walleye fishing on the lake that began July 7.

The state and the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe, who jointly manage the fishery, said the restriction was needed to protect the health of the spawning walleye population.

But local resort owners said that the shutdown was unnecessary and that it is damaging businesses throughout the region.

“The frustration has been building for years,” said Linda Eno, owner of the Twin Pines Resort in Garrison, Minn., and an organizer of the protest. “The governor was coming, and we thought it was a good time to show our discontent.”

Walleye fishing on Mille Lacs has been increasingly restricted in recent years, with smaller keeper limits and a new rule of no live bait allowed. This year’s three-week shutdown was the last straw, Eno said.

“The social fabric of our area has been decimated,” she said. “Over 50 businesses on the lake have closed in recent years. People who loved this lake from around the state have stopped coming and started new traditions, and it’s going to be difficult to get them back.”

Dayton traveled to Mille Lacs on Saturday to fish for bass and to meet with local residents to discuss the ban. After the protest, he canceled the meeting, but local business owners said they expect it to be rescheduled for sometime in the next week.

Dayton called the protest “unfortunate. Because we were up there to promote the virtues of Mille Lacs — the No. 1 bass fishing lake in the country, excellent muskie fishing.

“I totally understand and respect the distress so many people have experienced there, in their businesses and their way of life in the past couple of years,” he said. “Hopefully, the anecdotal [report] of more walleye in the lake is evidence we are turning the corner here, and I hope and believe that will be the case.”

DNR Commissioner Tom Landwehr declined to comment Monday on the protest and its aftermath. Officials of the Mille Lacs Band did not return phone calls.

Each year, the state and the tribe agree on a quota of walleye, measured in pounds, that can be taken from the lake. This year’s quota is about 64,000 pounds, split 70/30 between state-licensed anglers and the Ojibwe band. That means about 45,000 pounds total for state-licensed anglers, who already caught 14,000 pounds during the winter ice-fishing season.

Anglers also caught too many walleye last summer, and so this year’s harvest will be reduced to account for that. When all of the math is done, anglers are limited to 29,000 pounds of Mille Lacs walleye this summer, the lowest total ever. Decades ago, anglers took as many as 600,000 pounds of walleye from the lake in a season.

Eddy Lyback, who runs a boat dealership and an ice-fishing outfitter near Isle, Minn., said the current management agreement between the state and the band needs to be changed.

“I point the finger directly back to this whole co-management system to basically micromanage a few thousand pounds of fish,” he said. “It’s just not working.”

Lyback, who has fished and worked on the lake for more than 40 years, said the methods used to measure the fish population aren’t accurate. Those who live on the lake have a better idea of conditions than scientists who take a sample, he said. “Based on what people are seeing and how they’re biting, there are a lot of walleyes out there,” he said.

And the state’s hope that Mille Lacs will become a premier destination for smallmouth bass — it was recently ranked the No. 1 bass lake in the nation by Bassmaster magazine — won’t make up for the decline in walleye fishing.

“Walleye fishermen and bass fishermen are two different kinds of fishermen,” Lyback said. “Walleye fishermen tend to stay a couple of days. They bought bait. They’d go to restaurants. They put a little more money in the area.

“Bass fishermen, by the time they show up, they have everything they need in their tackle box.”

IceNEyes1986 wrote:

Decades ago, anglers took as many as 600,000 pounds of walleye from the lake in a season.

I believe it was 2003 (Give or take a year) the harvest was 3 million pounds. (Angler hook and line catch plus release mort) This was before unrestriced tribal netting.

IceNEyes1986 wrote:

Lyback, who has fished and worked on the lake for more than 40 years, said the methods used to measure the fish population aren’t accurate. Those who live on the lake have a better idea of conditions than scientists who take a sample, he said. “Based on what people are seeing and how they’re biting, there are a lot of walleyes out there,” he said.

This may be true. However, if the DNR opens up fishing and selects a slot to hit a certain harvest target, (Decimating an entire year class or two) we will be right back to where we were in short order.

-J.

Exactly right Jon. The lake went from 600,000 lbs of fish 12″-30″+ harvested vs. the DNR’s 600,000 lbs. of 15″-17″ size mandate. One the lake could sustain, the other, not so much. I think what a lot of people are overlooking is the foothold that the pike, musky and small mouth now have in the lake. Yeah they were always there to some extent, but not what they are today. The decline of the eyes is what made it perfect for them.

One problem is that the success rate of catching so many large walleyes in the past 10 years has become the expected normal?

jeff_huberty wrote:

One problem is that the success rate of catching so many large <em class=”ido-tag-em”>walleyes in the past 10 years has become the expected normal?

The idea that managing the lake for large fish has obviously failed. There needs to be a balanced harvest across all size walleye in the lake. When you release all of the big fish, kill off all of the fish from 14-20 inches, that leaves the big walleye to eat all of the small walleye. Then the big fish die off leaving nothing behind.

This was the recipe for disaster that was predicted by Dick Stearnberg in the early 2000’s. The prediction came true.

-J.

Jon, You are 100% correct. For those who haven’t read it:

Attachments:

1. 

   TreatyManagement.pdf
   

“Walleye fishermen and bass fishermen are two different kinds of fishermen,” Lyback said. “Walleye fishermen tend to stay a couple of days. They bought bait. They’d go to restaurants. They put a little more money in the area.

“Bass fishermen, by the time they show up, they have everything they need in their tackle box.” Eddy Lyback

I am a little confused by Mr. Lyback’s comment about bass fisherman. I go on bass fishing trips and stay overnight. I like to eat and go to restaurants/bars. I also need to fill my Ranger with 40 gallons of gas now and than, along with my pickup that I need to haul it with. I have been to Florida and Texas and have employed guides for bass fishing. The only thing different is I don’t buy live bait, but if you had the “hot” color of tube for Mille Lacs, I would buy it. I guarantee I “put money in the area”.

drhamm wrote:

“Walleye fishermen and bass fishermen are two different kinds of fishermen,” Lyback said. “Walleye fishermen tend to stay a couple of days. They bought bait. They’d go to restaurants. They put a little more money in the area.

“Bass fishermen, by the time they show up, they have everything they need in their tackle box.” Eddy Lyback

I am a little confused by Mr. Lyback’s comment about bass fisherman. I go on bass fishing trips and stay overnight. I like to eat and go to restaurants/bars. I also need to fill my Ranger with 40 gallons of gas now and than, along with my pickup that I need to haul it with. I have been to Florida and Texas and have employed guides for bass fishing. The only thing different is I don’t buy live bait, but if you had the “hot” color of tube for Mille Lacs, I would buy it. I guarantee I “put money in the area”.

Yeah I don’t get his point either. These bass anglers probably show up a week before the tournament to pre fish, stay at one of many resorts for 7 days, they probably refuel once that week, buy coffee, donuts, beer, and food all week long. Sounds like some serious coin to me. So they don’t buy bait. The bait is the cheap part. I realize the resorts have been hit hard up there but you can’t make sense out of non sense. How bout when Upper Red was shut down because of the netting. The crappie fishing was out of this world! The few resorts toughed it out and embraced the crappie fishing, and now UPRL is one of the best Walleye factory’s west of Erie. I guess I don’t see what is the big deal about a 3 week ban that will likely help in the long run. I’m glad they got the attention they wanted but circling the boat! That’s pretty lame

drhamm wrote:

“Walleye fishermen and bass fishermen are two different kinds of fishermen,” Lyback said. “Walleye fishermen tend to stay a couple of days. They bought bait. They’d go to restaurants. They put a little more money in the area.

“Bass fishermen, by the time they show up, they have everything they need in their tackle box.” Eddy Lyback

I am a little confused by Mr. Lyback’s comment about bass fisherman. I go on bass fishing trips and stay overnight. I like to eat and go to restaurants/bars. I also need to fill my Ranger with 40 gallons of gas now and than, along with my pickup that I need to haul it with. I have been to Florida and Texas and have employed guides for bass fishing. The only thing different is I don’t buy live bait, but if you had the “hot” color of tube for Mille Lacs, I would buy it. I guarantee I “put money in the area”.

Reminds me of the Fox9 article where they interviewed Greg Thomas from Gregory’s Resort.

http://www.fox9.com/news/266738471-story

“This bass fishing is all about people with their beautiful ranger boats,” said Thomas. “They come up and they put nothing in our economy.”

To top that off, live bait and gas are the lowest profit items at these places therefore they have the lowest impact.

To Eddy’s point, the lake is “surrounded” by Walleye fisherman, from way back. It is not surrounded by Bass fisherman, yet. People coming for 2 days a week will not keep the lights on… if you cannot see that a Bass fisherman is different versus a walleye fisherman, nobody can explain it to you here. Come winter, it will really show it’s different fisher persons.

Hot off the presses at the Star Trib:

Livelihoods are at stake. That’s as important as other protests, isn’t it?
By Sondra Erickson JULY 11, 2017 — 5:54PM

Last weekend, a peaceful group of anglers, business owners and Lake Mille Lacs-area residents took to the water to voice their displeasure with the Minnesota Department of Natural Resource’s (DNR) management of the lake to Gov. Mark Dayton, who was making an appearance on the lake to promote its world-class bass fishing.

The governor, irate with the presence of business owners and anglers engaged in a peaceful protest, turned his boat around and headed to shore just a short while after his trip had started. He then canceled a previously scheduled meeting with area business owners whose livelihoods have been devastated by repeated closures of the lake to walleye fishing.

I find it curious that the governor went out of his way to meet with protesters who illegally shut down interstates and with extreme anti-pipeline protesters who stormed the stage and interrupted his speech at his 2017 Water Summit, but that he abruptly canceled a scheduled meeting with this group of people who showed up to voice their concerns about his administration’s handling of walleye fishing on Lake Mille Lacs.

Simply put, anglers, resort owners and area residents whose livelihoods are affected by the health of the walleye population are tired of the uncertainty of the future of walleye fishing on the lake, and like many other groups, organized to show that concern directly to the leader of our state. It’s extremely disheartening that rather than stick around to listen to their concerns, the governor quite literally took his ball and went home. That isn’t the leadership our region or our state deserves.

I implore the governor to promptly return to Lake Mille Lacs, listen to the concerns being voiced by those whose businesses and way of life are at stake in this, and work with us rather than continue the adversarial relationship that has developed between his administration and our community.

We understand the urgency for meaningful action to save the walleye population because our businesses and the health of our communities depend on it. Mille Lacs-area residents are simply asking for a seat at the table and to feel like the DNR is listening. We simply can’t have another season of unpredictable regulations that affect reservations and bookings and result in lost revenue.

The DNR and state tourism officials can and should continue to promote the excellent muskie and bass fishing on Lake Mille Lacs, but the fact is that this community was built on world-class walleye fishing. Thousands of anglers come here each year not just to fish, but to fish for walleye.

It’s time for us to look for solutions that are evidence-based that will begin to rebuild the declining population without irreparably harming the businesses and jobs of residents in our community. We urge the governor to join us and listen to us — not to flee from this difficult discussion.

Sondra Erickson, R-Princeton, is a member of the Minnesota House. She represents much of the area surrounding Lake Mille Lacs.

If what walleyestudent is true with how ugly that protest did get, it seems the media up to this point has been quite nice in leaving those details out.

With that article, that might poke the bear and wouldn’t be suprised to see an anonymous video of that ugliness. Big if.

Kind of interesting scenario either way, the Gov doesn’t want to create even more of a negative environment for the bass tourney dudes, then again maybe that’s what the tribes behind the scenes want…. Whens this freakin movie coming out or what?!

Nothing can compare to what the freeway blocking BLM protesters did… and he coddled up with them. Again, a few dipshits yelling racial slurs and he turns tail and goes home ? He had ZERO intention of hearing anything the business owners and residents had to say. He does not need 1 vote as he is not running (thank god) so there is no need to take questions, lie in his answer and then ignore the issue as he did at the Anoka Gamefair. That was when he was first a candidate for the job he has failed so miserably at, that’s when he was first questioned about what he would do with the issues at Mille Lacs.

big_g wrote:

To Eddy’s point, the lake is “surrounded” by Walleye fisherman, from way back. It is not surrounded by Bass fisherman, yet. People coming for 2 days a week will not keep the lights on… if you cannot see that a Bass fisherman is different versus a walleye fisherman, nobody can explain it to you here. Come winter, it will really show it’s different fisher persons.

The bass guys come up for more than 2 days, don’t make $hit up. I have come up at least once every winter and don’t care about keeping fish which seems to be the big issue here. I along with many C&R guys are just fine with catching big walleye. I will buy bait and spend $ in Garrison on food and drinks. If the DNR closes the winter season, then S will hit the fan. I don’t see it happening from afar but I’m not a meat guy. FYI it is ok the C&R, it is too bad the old timers that used to come there can’t handle it.

big_g wrote:

To Eddy’s point, the lake is “surrounded” by Walleye fisherman, from way back. It is not surrounded by Bass fisherman, yet. People coming for 2 days a week will not keep the lights on… if you cannot see that a Bass fisherman is different versus a walleye fisherman, nobody can explain it to you here. Come winter, it will really show it’s different fisher persons.

Big_g is correct. Lyback posted on FB that the reporter doing the article left out certain relevant pieces. And basically to some things out of context. Big_g has actually filled in the blanks quite well on what Eddy was actually saying. Yep, that and no ice fishing bass anglers which is a big contributor in the area business revenue. Then consider the significant walleye customers on launch boat outings…which there are no bass fishermen customers.

Jon Jordan wrote:

Hot off the presses at the Star Trib:

Livelihoods are at stake. That’s as important as other protests, isn’t it?
By Sondra Erickson JULY 11, 2017 — 5:54PM

Last weekend, a peaceful group of anglers, business owners and Lake Mille Lacs-area residents took to the water to voice their displeasure with the Minnesota Department of Natural Resource’s (DNR) management of the lake to Gov. Mark Dayton, who was making an appearance on the lake to promote its world-class bass fishing.

The governor, irate with the presence of business owners and anglers engaged in a peaceful protest, turned his boat around and headed to shore just a short while after his trip had started. He then canceled a previously scheduled meeting with area business owners whose livelihoods have been devastated by repeated closures of the lake to walleye fishing.

Sondra Erickson, R-Princeton, is a member of the Minnesota House. She represents much of the area surrounding Lake Mille Lacs.

Okay, I have read Sondra Ericksons statement in full. I do have to question if she was truly there at the protest in person. I sense that this was a prepared statement that she read, and rubber stamped her signature on. Perhaps she was under some heavy pressure.

Here is an account from Vivian LaMoore editor of the Mille Lacs Messenger newspaper. All that I have heard from other accounts is that Vivian was in fact there and this is what she says…

“The protestors did not drive Dayton off the lake. He was scheduled to leave the lake at 11. He asked to stay 10 more minutes. He was already late getting off the lake and then took time for a press conference. After which he took time to visit with the Fisher family and the customers of Fishers resort.

If you know anything about how PR events work specifically with high ranking government officials the time is closely slotted and watched carefully. He was already pushing it.

He had planned to choose 8 protesting boats to speak with them on a personal level. However, when the behavior of a few protestors turned towards matters not relating to fishing the gov changed his mind. If the protestors were acting like 2nd grade children they should be treated like 2nd grade children and given a time out. Yes a few bad apples spoiled the whole bushel. It could have been a good thing. For everyone.”

nhamm wrote:

If what walleyestudent is true with how ugly that protest did get, it seems the media up to this point has been quite nice in leaving those details out.

With that article, that might poke the bear and wouldn’t be suprised to see an anonymous video of that ugliness. Big if.

Kind of interesting scenario either way, the Gov doesn’t want to create even more of a negative environment for the bass tourney dudes, then again maybe that’s what the tribes behind the scenes want…. Whens this freakin movie coming out or what?!

Worth mentioning that that’s not an “article” it’s an opinion piece written by a politician who’s just saying what she thinks her constituents want to hear. The phrase “alternative facts” comes to mind.

I’ll take the word of the actual journalist on this one.

pool2fool wrote:

I’ll take the word of the actual journalist on this one.

In general about taking the word of a journalist over anyone else, realize they are professionals at writing stories that people want to read. Meaning they emphasize parts of a story to sell advertising and portray their own personal or their employer’s opinion.

Ever heard of fake news?

biggill wrote:

In general about taking the word of a journalist over anyone else, realize they are professionals at writing stories that people want to read. Meaning they emphasize parts of a story to sell advertising and portray their own personal or their employer’s opinion.

Precisely!

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>biggill wrote:</div>
In general about taking the word of a journalist over anyone else, realize they are professionals at writing stories that people want to read. Meaning they emphasize parts of a story to sell advertising and portray their own personal or their employer’s opinion.

Precisely!

Oh yeah, “fake news” — I think I have heard of that in fact. If I recall, it was initially used as a term to describe stories planted by people who wanted to influence the ’16 election. ( worked like a charm! ) And now it’s been co-opted by politicians to dismiss any news story that doesn’t fit their expertly crafted version of the truth.

I didn’t say I blindly accept whatever I read in the media, but in this case, yes I will trust the journalist, who has less skin in the game than the politician who represents the pissed off resort owners.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>pool2fool wrote:</div>
I’ll take the word of the actual journalist on this one.

In general about taking the word of a journalist over anyone else, realize they are professionals at writing stories that people want to read. Meaning they emphasize parts of a story to sell advertising and portray their own personal or their employer’s opinion.

Ever heard of fake news?

The comments made by Vivian Lamoore were not in the newspaper she is editor of, and therefore were not part of a story or article in that newspaper so no, this was definitely not an agenda to sell advertising or portray an “opinion” of her employer or herself. This was A PERSONAL statement she made that was an OBSERVATION of what she witnessed and Sondra Erickson was NOT there.

Ohhh What a mess!

Can someone coherently explain to me why there is so much denial about the effects the treaty has had, and the Power it has placed in the hands of the GLIFWC.

I Absolutely agree that the lake has been mismanaged,and changes are needed.

Sondra Erickson, R-Princeton, is a member of the Minnesota House. She represents much of the area surrounding Lake Mille Lacs.
I find it curious that if she truly wants to get involved why not sponsor a bill that directs the State to address the issue in the Legislature.
Instead of being counterproductive with a long winded statement condemning the governor, when he has no power to change it.
Any changes to the current Mille lacs agenda will require the approval of the GLIWC.
Unless of course one of our brave finger pointing representatives makes a stand in Congress.

So is R-Sondra Erickson willing to help put out the fire? or just right letters condemning those who are in the middle of the fire?

jeff_huberty wrote:

Sondra Erickson, R-Princeton, is a member of the Minnesota House. She represents much of the area surrounding Lake Mille Lacs.
I find it curious that if she truly wants to get involved why not sponsor a bill that directs the State to address the issue in the Legislature.
Instead of being counterproductive with a long winded statement condemning the governor, when he has no power to change it.
Any changes to the current Mille lacs agenda will require the approval of the GLIWC.
Unless of course one of our brave finger pointing representatives makes a stand in Congress.

So is R-Sondra Erickson willing to help put out the fire? or just right letters condemning those who are in the middle of the fire?

Exactly right! She made the comment because she knew it would garner support from those in her district. It doesn’t matter one iota that Dayton cannot do a single thing about it, but it sounded good and she will get support from the voters.
She wont stick her neck out to sponsor anything, you watch. She will slide off into the sunset after this comment and just ride into the next election. You will not hear any further development from her or any sponsoring from her.

The original court order allowed an opportunity for the state to return to court on based on conservation issues. Anytime it is mentioned they clam right up. If 20 years ago if you would have asked what it would take to reach that point I bet it would have been “well if the lake got so screwed up that the walleye harvest had to be shut down”. Well we are there. With the lake being managed for poundage and not biology this is what you get. Rack it up to a learning curve. Time to revisit the management plan. Court is the only place that it can happen. What we are working with ain’t workin.

eyeguy507 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
To Eddy’s point, the lake is “surrounded” by Walleye fisherman, from way back. It is not surrounded by Bass fisherman, yet. People coming for 2 days a week will not keep the lights on… if you cannot see that a Bass fisherman is different versus a walleye fisherman, nobody can explain it to you here. Come winter, it will really show it’s different fisher persons.

The bass guys come up for more than 2 days, don’t make $hit up. I have come up at least once every winter and don’t care about keeping fish which seems to be the big issue here. I along with many C&R guys are just fine with catching big walleye. I will buy bait and spend $ in Garrison on food and drinks. If the DNR closes the winter season, then S will hit the fan. I don’t see it happening from afar but I’m not a meat guy. FYI it is ok the C&R, it is too bad the old timers that used to come there can’t handle it.

I’m sorry, I didn’t see where you come up at least “Once” a winter…. like I said, some won’t get it. There are shanty towns that dot the lake, end to end, side to side… the shanty’s sit at resorts in dead storage and in campsites all summer… people utilize them year round. Don’t see many Bass shanty’s around the lake… sorry. This all started 20 years ago… people have predicted this would come to fruition. Like someone else said, people who have lived on the lake all their lives, voiced their concerns and have tried being heard, but get shouted down and ridiculed…. and they don’t even post here anymore. (too many people who know it all) It’s not about “being able to keep fish”, it’s about the health of the fish and the fact that the lake is “shutdown” because of decades of mismanagement. If being 49 years old and wanting to keep a walleye once in awhile to eat, makes me an old guy who doesn’t CPR (I have probably CPR’d more walleye than you will ever see) bothers you that much, then your just gonna have to deal with it I guess on your own. Much Luck to you.