propane issues with cold temps ?

  • cheers
    Posts: 333
    #1831712

    I am interested hearing about any issues the recent cold spell caused relating to propane . I heat 100% with propane and have a 1000 gallon storage tank . My question is what happens when temps hit -45 degrees as it did the last few nights in Northern Mn. Will the propane freeze and my furnace stop working altogether ? What do folks do to manage the problem ? My technician claims that if the tank is full it wont be a problem ! Any thoughts ?
    Thanks

    Gino
    Grand rapids mn
    Posts: 1212
    #1831715

    We went through this at our shop the other day . The gas company told us propane will freeze at 44 or 45 below not sure on exact number but it was one of them. The problem we were told with our storage tanks was that they were completely covered with snow. He said the tanks should be clear because they need as much sun as possible to hit them when it’s that cold to help build pressure. I’m not saying that is a fact just what we were told.

    Joe Scegura
    Alexandria MN
    Posts: 2758
    #1831728

    I was just told you need 200 gallons in a 500 gal tank, at a min to avoid issues when its that cold.

    patk
    Nisswa, MN
    Posts: 1997
    #1831770

    I was just told you need 200 gallons in a 500 gal tank, at a min to avoid issues when its that cold.

    I’m curious as well, this was the water cooler conversation yesterday. There were some theories about pressure and how the bigger tanks perform better/differently that say 20-30 pounders like Joe is referencing.

    2 weeks ago had furnace propane issues in the -30s with 20/30 pound tanks on the camper. Also issues with one pounders for our sunflower/buddy heaters that weekend. Love to know more on this to avoid cold cold nights in a camper.

    404 ERROR
    MN
    Posts: 3918
    #1831772

    From what I have been told, the bigger the tank, the better it handles the cold. Has to do with pressure like what Pat and Joe said. I know my dad has had some issues with his 500gal when it got low in cold temps. I only have tanks(2-20’s) on my wheelhouse and have been putting an incandescent trouble light inside with a moving blanket over the outside and have yet to have an issue this year in these cold snaps.

    Tom Sawvell
    Inactive
    Posts: 9559
    #1831775

    I mentioned this in another thread, my 2/3 full 20 pounder on Weds was froze up and would not run a heater. Today I took another 20 pound bottle to have it filled and they were unable to pump that propane and have not been able to pump or fill since earlier in the week. I did a switch with a filled bottle. When I returned home a while ago I tried the heater with the original bottle and it started today.

    onestout
    Hudson, WI
    Posts: 2698
    #1831780

    Propane freezes at -306.4F, freezing propane is not the problem. Propane boils at -44F, this is where you could have an issue. The propane must be in a gas state to burn, too cold and it is a liquid and won’t burn. Also as you get close to that temp you will start to lose pressure which is also needed. There is a calculation of the amount of freespace needed in the tank for the btu of the furnace, an example is you can’t run a 150,000 btu torpedo heater off a 20lb tank for long, not enough free space and it sucks all the gas out until the pressure is 0 and it goes out.

    mark-bruzek
    Two Harbors, MN
    Posts: 3867
    #1831781

    Propane freezes at -306.4F, freezing propane is not the problem. Propane boils at -44F, this is where you could have an issue. The propane must be in a gas state to burn, too cold and it is a liquid and won’t burn. Also as you get close to that temp you will start to lose pressure which is also needed. There is a calculation of the amount of freespace needed in the tank for the btu of the furnace, an example is you can’t run a 150,000 btu torpedo heater off a 20lb tank for long, not enough free space and it sucks all the gas out until the pressure is 0 and it goes out.

    Best response yet.

    Tom Sawvell
    Inactive
    Posts: 9559
    #1831801

    The guy at the lp station told me this. If it isn’t flowing, I call it frozen but yes I know the difference.

    Dave maze
    Isanti
    Posts: 980
    #1831810

    Has anyone tried a stick on or magnet style block heater for their tank? I would think one of those would keep the pressure up with out overheating it. Obviously this would need to be tested with caution as to not raise the tank temp over 120f.

    Don Meier
    Butternut Wisconsin
    Posts: 1659
    #1831832

    Pouring water over cold tank increases internal tank pressure.Read the comments on the facebook link and guys explained it.

    B-man
    Posts: 5817
    #1831834

    When you’re fishing in extreme cold (-20 to rock bottom) there’s a couple things you can do with 20/30 lb tanks.

    Alternate tanks. I’m not a fan of it, but it’s better than freezing to death. Keep one tank inside the shack (make sure it isn’t leaking so you don’t explode to death). When the tank outside quits working, wrap a blanket or insulation around the warm tank and switch it out.

    Heat your tank. This is what I do. You can run a 20/30 pound tank bone dry in extreme cold. Most guys have a generator along these days. Simply point your exhaust onto the tank from about 6″ away. You’re not trying to get the tank hot (and it won’t get hot when it’s -35 out), but just providing some heat to help the propane evaporate.

    It works incredibly well. I do it all the time when it’s ass cold out. No more half or quarter tanks that quit working in the middle of the night.

    I spent the night on the lake Tuesday when it was -33. I heated the shack off a 30lb tank all night without a hiccup using generator exhaust.

    One last thing you can do if you don’t like the heat idea, is to run two tanks at the same time (both valves open). You’re essentially doubling the surface area of propane to evaporate. This helps down to about -25.

    Ice Cap
    Posts: 2161
    #1831851

    My son wraps heat tape around his tanks with the plug in sticking out from the bottom of the plastic cover. When he knows it’s going to get to those extreme temps he plugs it into the generator. Problem solved.

    rjthehunter
    Brainerd
    Posts: 1253
    #1831887

    If you’ve got a generator or vehicle or something with a cigarette lighter port in it then just get one of those heating blankets and wrap the propane tank in it. Or plug it into a generator.

    Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10440
    #1831897

    The guy I bought my cabin from had the hindsight to bury the 500 gallon tank. Keeps the LP warmer to make it easier to convert to a gas.

    Iowaboy1
    Posts: 3791
    #1831899

    The guy I bought my cabin from had the hindsight to bury the 500 gallon tank. Keeps the LP warmer to make it easier to convert to a gas.

    at least the snowplow truck cant destroy that !!!

    Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10440
    #1831903

    Do you mean the snow plow that did this to my trash can and mailbox this morning? rotflol

    Attachments:
    1. 19694.jpeg

    Don Meier
    Butternut Wisconsin
    Posts: 1659
    #1831906

    The guy I bought my cabin from had the hindsight to bury the 500 gallon tank. Keeps the LP warmer to make it easier to convert to a gas.

    I see they make tanks specifically for under ground burial i did not know that. I have a 1000 above ground so far no issues .

    Pailofperch
    Central Mn North of the smiley water tower
    Posts: 2918
    #1831907

    ^^looks like the start of a good soapbox derby car build!

    Savage Brewer
    Savage, MN
    Posts: 123
    #1831909

    Propane boils at -44F, this is where you could have an issue. The propane must be in a gas state to burn, too cold and it is a liquid and won’t burn. Also as you get close to that temp you will start to lose pressure which is also needed. There is a calculation of the amount of freespace needed in the tank for the btu of the furnace, an example is you can’t run a 150,000 btu torpedo heater off a 20lb tank for long, not enough free space and it sucks all the gas out until the pressure is 0 and it goes out.

    100% correct.
    The other factor besides freespace is surface area. The larger the surface area the more quantity can boil off into a gas state in a given time.
    For example 20# and 40# tanks are the same diameter and so they technically have the same boil off rate. For example I have an 80,000 BTU burner that when above freezing it can run on the 20 or 40 tank fine, the 40 just gives more run time.
    When it gets below freezing the boil off rate slows, then I run two 20’s in parallel that gives me twice the surface area.

    This is why alot of 5th wheel campers will run dual 30 or 40 pound tanks so you can get decent surface area and run time, but yet small enough you can remove them and refill.

    Bass Thumb
    Royalton, MN
    Posts: 1200
    #1831922

    If you’ve got a generator or vehicle or something with a cigarette lighter port in it then just get one of those heating blankets and wrap the propane tank in it. Or plug it into a generator.

    You might have some trouble starting that vehicle in the AM, especially if it’s cold enough to cause issues with a propane tank.

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